Hi Guys,

I am doing better lately, but feeling still a bit like a crazy woman to still be pursuing recovery.

I am tired. I am starting to LB, although my needed and desired, and planned status is to be more distant and have more boundaries.

I am still in counseling weekly with ws, although this week we missed due to holiday.

I am in status of no sf with ws. I am in status of no family time with ws, unless truly balanced with some -couple- recovery time... this being my own decision b/c ws was cake eating on family time and spending less alone time with me.... according to him, the issue is my lb's.

I did a good plan a in the beginning, I was self-less almost with no lb's... now that is when there was an ow.

When ow 2 briefly came around I began to lb more, and throughout all this with noncommittal ws, I have lb'd.

I have trouble with no lb's, but I know my lb's are making troubled waters.

WS wants me in no lb status in order to desire to return to marriage.

I have been able to discuss more -issues- with him as of late, but I have to work on doing it without disrespectful judgements, and without demands.

I really feel a crazed need to demand ws get a better job and pay me more child support... a crazed need to demand ws apologize more, etc. Also to demand no drinking, for those of you who understand..... this is a hard one to work through- but I did have alanon at lunch!

Last night I got out my Surviving an Affair book, and found that my lbing is prolonging things.

I do think my plan a'ing went on too far, although I messed it up with lb's throughout this ordeal.

Tips, Support, Anything welcome!

I am not a big drinker, but starting to feel the need myself.... ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I am very stressed, and even starting to lose sleep over the agonizing length of this seperation, and my reconciling efforts.

Thanks for being here, all advice welcome.

Honey

Honey,
Which kind(s) of lbs are you doing? Angry Outbursts, selfish demands, thoughtless decisions, etc.

If it is more than one kind, try to elimiate one at a time.

There does not come a time in recovery (or life) when lovebusting is appropriate.

You've come a long way in managing your anger, but it is your anger, not your husband's that you can control. He's got good reason to fear that you'll return to your past angry ways, just as you fear he'll always drink and be irresponsible.

But, the other thing is, I wonder if your H views things like "communication" or "conflict resolution" as lovebusters. If the behavior isn't on the list, then it isn't an official lovebuster.

His not likeing something doesn't necessarily put it on the lovebuster list. He may not enjoy proactive positive behavior, but being that way doesn't make you wrong.

You have a valid reason to respectfully discuss his employment & paying child support. I'll leave the drinking issue alone because your Alanon group is far more knowledgeable than I am.

Concentrate on being positive, no official lovebusters, continuing the counseling.

Hi Honey,

We've been on these boards about the same time dealing with a lot of the same issues. This link was posted to me on another board - it may be uselfull to read -

what to do with an alcoholic spouse

Honey, you have worked sooooo hard at trying to make your marriage work and I commend you for that. Most people that know say they would have walked away long ago. It's a real testiment to your kids that you didn't just walk away and become another statistic.

On the flip side, you cant get your husband sober and you can't rebuild your marriage by yourself. I truly believe what the Harley's have written (They owned 10 treatment centers at one point) that untill the spouse is sober, you can't make any real progress in your relationship. I have seen that in AA for the last 11 years and know personally that while drinking, your mind just is not where it needs to be to have a REAL relationship. We can't control another person and no matter how much we want for them and we want for ourselves, it is like pushing a rope (not pulling it)

It takes a lot of courage to go to plan B. It is hard to let go of our dreams and visions and just say Let go and Let God. It's saying God - I can't handle this right now, I am freeing my husband up so you can work on him. He can do so much more when we let go completely. That doesn't mean that he will get sober - he may never, ever get sober. Each of us has our own free will to use the talents that God gave us. Then again, maybe by letting go, your H will decide to get sober and that he wants to live the life of his dreams available through recovery.

In my case, I never did a formal plan B, but I just totally detatched, didn't call him and just concentrated on me. It is working. I am happy, I enjoy my life, I have wonderful friends, and I am the person that I always dreamed I could be - maybe more. Guess what - WH wants to come home and IS taking steps towards that! He is the one persuing this, not me! It only started when I let go.

Recently, I had a session with Steve Harley & this is the route that I feel good about -When WH gets home, go over a letter (posted to BR) about sobriety. If he doesn't choose sobriety or if his actions don't match his words, then he will be asked to go live elesewhere and when and if he is ready for sobriety then he can come back. He should be home in the next week or two so my house should be VERY interesting !!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

(((((((((((((((((((((Honey))))))))))))))))))))
You are a strong, beautiful, sexy, smart, fulfilled, joyous woman and don't you ever forget that!

Blessings,

D.

Thank You to Lor and Willgethruthis:

Lor,

I appreciate the advise on the lb's and the kind compliment that I am doing better! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You are right my psycho behavior has ended- and the lb's these days are much less.... just for your guys info- my Whusband's psycho behavior has also lessoned- however he continues abusive actions much more than I do at this point.

My lb's are calling him a drunk as of late, and a bad parent- when he took the kid out somewhere where there was drinking. I should not of said that, but I do not like how he takes care of the kids.

I will work on one lb at a time- great idea. I think my downfall lately, has been Letting Him Pull me into some arguement of light discourse on the phone regarding the kids. I get too involved and overreact at times, or even normally react as a protective mom..... :0 Anyway, I can get poff the phone when the conversation goes that way.... and I was a while back- always, I have to start that again.

Hi WILLGTTHIS,

Thanks for the link, and for being an awesome example regarding drawing a firm boundary. I too think there will be no good marriage, no real relationship without his recovery.

I am very excited for you in your reconcilation, am so so glad that your h is willing to do what it takes. I can only pray that mine might. I do think - he certainly won't if he doesn't have to. Also, I do not want to continue living the way we have... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I appreciate your support and response. I am going to read that link ! I am not as down as I have been- thank goodness! I appreciate so much your encouragement, b/c I do have fears of drawing this line.... I might lose him.... But truthfullly, I have no real M, without sobriety. I hate it, I wish he could have a few drinks and act normal- but it is clear he cannot.

My wh has a talent for backing people into a corner. He is also very very manipulative.

I actually talked to someone he works with - who may be dropping him soon- guess what, it is for the same types of behavior I can't stand in wh. We too have had a couple of business'- WH does not turn in all money, wh does not want to pay taxes properly, turn in invoices properly, etc. I am very saddened that he is STILL acting like this- but he is STILL drinking. THis friend is the primary business owner and just might drop J. I do still hope he will hit a bottom. I need to keep up my praying!

His new work buddy said, he has never seen anyone drink as much as J. WOW- I am not crazy!

I do have an option: that is to have him evaluated by a drug and alcohol... for alcoholism-which I may do. I feel that would be a major lb. I have also considered commitment- maybe.

I also went to an alanon meeting this week where many women shared openly about getting as angry as I had! Praise the Lord, it made me feel more human.... also the alcoholic is by definition a blamer of all the others in his life..

Thanks for your response, I appreciate the time you took to reply- your responses have helped a lot.

Honey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My lb's are calling him a drunk as of late, and a bad parent- when he took the kid out somewhere where there was drinking. I should not of said that, but I do not like how he takes care of the kids.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If protecting your kids from a self-destructive father is an LB then so be it. You have no choice but to keep harping on him with regards to their well being. That is one LB that he is just going to have to suck up and get over.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> His new work buddy said, he has never seen anyone drink as much as J. WOW- I am not crazy!I do have an option: that is to have him evaluated by a drug and alcohol... for alcoholism-which I may do. I feel that would be a major lb.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His drinking and behaviorisms are quite noticeable to others and is about to cost him another job. Having him evaluated again, would be for the sake of your children. If that's an LB, so be it.

I think your biggest LB yet to come is to use the results of the evaluation to remove all custody of the children from him. So long as he refuses to seek help for his alchoholism, he is in no condition to offer up a safe environment or parental security for your children.

jmho
ba109

Thanks BA, I do think this drinking thing has me whipped- the problems between us stem from the drinking ---- yet , wh blames me...

Classic Alcoholic... UGh! I hate alcoholism.

I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.

I have loved this man/boy since the tender age of 15 - me, and 16- him. It is surely hard to give up on my best friend.

He is truly convinced I am abusive, cruel, etc. He has conveniently forgotten his part in most of the issues between us. His A is b/c I treated him so bad. He wishes I could treat him better, but he had to leave me b/c I am so violent and abusive... for those of you who don't know... I shook my hair dryer at my h one morning while he screamed obscenties at me from his bathtub... I was in the same bathroom closeby drying my hair- therfore, I threatened his life, and I am endangering his life. Yes, according to wh, i am truly psycho. Yes, I truly admit, I shouldn't of done such a thing, shaking a hair dryer while drying my hair at a man screaming obscenities at me, b/c he has a hangover, and always wakes up mad. No, I should of been the bigger person and walked away, I should of , should of , should of.

I am so through with the blame. I have apologized for the hairdryer incident 1000+ times... and one counselor sd to wh, if she was going to kill you, she would of, right?

Anyway - I do think that was during or right before the A, and at this point over 2 yrs ago.. if not right around there.

I am sad. My husband does not even imagine he has a drinking problem, or drug... smoke smoke... problem...

I am so sad.

I hate it, hate it, hate it.

Ok - going for now... a vent. Hope I do not get flamed, I am so tired of his blame and no responsibility.

I really want a grown up relationsip, unfortunately it is very very clear that my wh is not a grown up and won't be while he lives in denial.

hugs and hope, thanks for reading this sad vent, Honey

PS, Thanks BA- I am very very close to those big lb's. I have to those when there is nothing left but them to do.

Honey

Why do I miss him?

((((((((((((((((Honey)))))))))))))))))))

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why do I miss him?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You probably miss the man you WISH he was today

Blessings,

D.

What do you miss about him?

Hi H2U-

Thanks for your response.

That was a sad statement last night after a big margarita~ see, I too, turn to the drink.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Although that was my only drink, and I do feel a bit more rational this am. I was even crying last night.

After my phone lb's about his drinking, and turning him down on quite a few invites out, I am starting to think I won't win this battle againt alcohol. He doesn't want to quit.

I went to an open AA meeting last night for some solace.... yes, it helped... but I do not see my wh in one of those rooms, he has too too much false pride and ego.

Anyway - I miss the guy I feel in love with- and YES, I totally focus on the good times. I miss the guy that made me smile- always, or so much of the time. The guy that loved me more than anyone else ever had---- and look at what he has done now, and he says it is all my fault??? Now that is a blow.

I did this weekend, get out old, and even not so old cards, letters, etc. and go through them remembering how sweet he used to be.

He just has so many harsh words for me nowadays.

Now alanon tells me there is nothing I can do about his drinking- I think I need to listen. I have major lb'd by telling him he needs to stop to be with me... he can't even imagine stopping...

Last nite the Alcholics A's talked about really bad bottoms.... maybe he will get there??/ Some of them said if they weren't kicked out on the street, jobless and etc. - then they might not of become desperate enough to become sober???? I don't know if he will fall that far. Maybe then , he is just a heavy drinker and I am insane about the drinking. Bad thing though- the drinking makes him dangerous to himself and our kids, and me- and others.

I miss the honest J, the one who I could count on, the one who would work hard to provide for me and care for me.

I miss being married to my first real love that I met in high school- I felt so lucky even months before the A- that we had been together most of our lives, at this point I have known him almost 20 yrs- we have been married 11, seperated over 2.... - this is not our first seperation. The first time I left him, wanting him to treat me better- basically he never really learned a big lesson that time.... WHo knows?

Anyway- I miss the intimacy of a marriage- the good times, the fun.... we did have that... lots of closeness and happiness. He loved me so much. I cannot take this kind of rude, arrogant -love- if you can even ccall it that. He keeps saying he loves me but---- and then the blame game starts, it is all me - me - me... which is a normal alcoholic thing- or is it a WH thing?

He is not the man I loved being with now- he is not the best friend I trusted and was so sure of.... but it is so hard to let go of that.

By God's grace I am not as depressed as I was... I tend to blame myself enough for everything anyway- but with him dumping it on, it is even worse.

oFF TO WORK! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks for listening.... vent vent again,

honey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now alanon tells me there is nothing I can do about his drinking- I think I need to listen. I have major lb'd by telling him he needs to stop to be with me... he can't even imagine stopping...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well now, THERE'S a support group for ya! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Geez! You are supposed to just accept it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I strongly disagree. I think you need to keep harping on him to get a handle on it through professional counseling.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Bad thing though- the drinking makes him dangerous to himself and our kids, and me- and others.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is all you need to know. You can't be expected to live with that. As a responsible parent, you can't subject your children to that.

jmho
ba109

<small>[ June 02, 2003, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

Sorry I missed your post this am Willgetthruthis... Hope your week goes well! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Wish I were in your shoes!

Yes, I do miss the man of yesterday. The man who had not had an A, the man I could trust, and YES- the man he could be.... UGH>

When I look at who he is, I really wonder why I try- I guess a 20 yr history, a marriage, hopes and dreams - LOVE- that mysterious, illogial feeling! and commitment in sickness and in health... Not wanting to give up on my favorite man, who used to be my everything....

Thanks to all of you. Tonite is counseling, we will see if he comes after my big lb's on quitting drinking.... and possible evaluation on it.

Hugs, Honey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Honey - I am going to say this to you and I don't want you to think that I am telling you to let go - or to get a divorce - but everytime I read your posts - I think my gosh how much longer is she going to put herself through this pain and misery - I mean really is he worth it all.. I was with my husband for 19 years - and married for 15 years - like I have told you in the past I didn't want a divorce but at last he wanted one and there was nothing that I could do to try to convince him otherwise - he wanted to party and drink and date like a 20 year old... Not a day goes by that I don't wake up and say - oh my god what an idiot - how could he do this to me??? To our girls??? To our family??? I have never hit the anger stage - but I wish somewhere in me I could really hate him - and move on for good - I spent a good year thinking that I could change him or me - and somewhere in my mind hoping that he would wake up and realize what a huge mistake he made - but I am now 1 year and 7 months later - realized that he is never going to. and if he does I don't think he will ever tell me... I have been seeing alot of a guy that I have known for a long time - like 15 years and he just got divorced - but you know what - he wasn't the one true love of my life like my husband - but it makes it easier on a daily basis knowing that yes there is life after my husband - is it the life I want - NOPE - can it be the life I want I hope so... I really hope someday - that I wake up and say ok - I am going to thank him for letting me go I am happy... Truly happy... I am not there - but I hope to be... But you are still holding on trying to change him - And he isn't going to change - you can wish, hope and pray but he isn't going to until he wants to - and something happens to these WS - I swear they crack something upstairs in their brains makes them think that it is all about them - Now I just question this - Don't you deserve to be happy???? Don't you deserve to wake up one day and be happy that someone wants to spend time with you??? That there is no more drama in your life???? I know you cannot imagine your life without him - but really can you imagine your life with him??? I mean I guess you just have to find some inner strength and say ok - you know what enough it is time for me to be happy.... I know I could be totally off base and I am sure you are going to get mad but I just really feel for your position - I have been there, I have done that... And basically it really bites - living with that raw pain everyday - at least when you finally make the final decision - it can somewhat start to heal - I mean when does it finally heal I don't know - but you deserve so much better... Please don't think I am trying to tell you what to do - but the one thing that I always got from these boards - was that when someone gave me strong advice - I would always read it and say - my god they are right why am I doing this to myself??? Good luck... As you can probably tell I am having a down day today - but I have got to tell you - this is probably the first one I have had in like a month and I haven't spoken to my ex in just about that amount of time until today....

Maw-

I see and appreciate your position~ although all of our situations are different... I do see the good in your advicea and thoughts.

True most would of given up on my wh a long time ago...

However, there are 2 key differences in my case- comparatively....
1. My wh is no longer in an Affair.

2. My wh has a big drinking problem- and a big part of that is denial.

I'll add to that we have been in weekly counseling since Nov. 2002.

He says he will not be happy unless we reconcile.

He continues to say he loves me. He says he wants the Marriage.

I know him very well, and I know he is running away from himself really- and he is blaming me, YES ME, his best friend, and loving wife, for his problems.

I know I have been in a vicous circle taking his bait- so that he can see me react and get angry and act like a nut- SO THAT WH CAN FEEL BETTER!>>>.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I actually see this! WOW!

Now, the challenge is- CAN I STEP BACK - LET GO AND LET GOD and do nothing, NOTHING, to let him blame me anymore- so that WH will be faced with only himself in the mirror to blame his problems and misery on???? YES, I do think I can!

Did it take me a long time to figure this out!? YES! Do I feel better now that I understand, yes.

Thanks for your post MAW, yes truly I have to let go..... I do think when I let go, WH will see how much he needs me/loves me... b/c he really really does.

I know this.... NOW can I stop trying to fix it.

LET GO and LET GOD... Yes, I can.

Thanks for your post and reminding me I need to be happy! I'm doing quite a bit later as of late. I do truly beleive my marriage can be restored, what I wonder about IS---- Can wh get sober and face himself... this only he can know, and God... not me, nor can I force it.

PEACE.

Hugs and HOpe to you. Glad you have a new dating friend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I appreciate your following my story and posting to me... sorry for a bit of a vent, just getting my feelings out on paper/computer feels good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Off to another alanon meeting, to help me keep my sanity with loving support and friends!

Bye- HOney

Hey Honey!

I've been out on vacation with my lovely wife. Saw your thread and just wanted to say you're doing great! The distancing, plan B, etc., are all at your pace. Remember, you're driving this train...

Also, please, please, please, NO EXPECTATIONS of your H to quit drinking. Plan B, separation or divorce. NO EXPECTATIONS on your part, ok?

Gib

<small>[ June 02, 2003, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Gibby1 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am starting to think I won't win this battle againt alcohol. He doesn't want to quit.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOU won't win the battle only he can - with God's help,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I went to an open AA meeting last night for some solace.... yes, it helped... but I do not see my wh in one of those rooms, he has too too much false pride and ego.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's not unique in his false pride and ego - those are every alcoholic's traits! It's just that (some) of those in AA have humbled themselves. As they say self centeredness and self seeking is the root of the problem.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Last nite the Alcholics A's talked about really bad bottoms.... maybe he will get there??/ Some of them said if they weren't kicked out on the street, jobless and etc. - then they might not of become desperate enough to become sober???? I don't know if he will fall that far. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Alcoholics can ride the "dump truck" all the way to the "dump" or they can get off any time. Your H may not ever hit his bottom or it may be a lot higher than the ditch or a bridge .... it's just a point where they make a decision not to live like that anymore and ask for help. Many sober AA's still have jobs, families.

(((((((((((((HOney))))))))))))))))))))))

Go to open AA meetings -
There is so much to be learned from an alanon perspective.

Be kind to yourself
Be good to yourself
Do something just for yourself - something fun or just plain relaxing. Savor the moment. Life is too short. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,

D.

Thanks Gibby and Willgetthruthis=

I appreciate the support. I am feeling very good tonite... woohoo! I don't know if it is the wellbutrin or me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I do know i am getting better, there are ups and downs- but I am really becoming more self aware.

I feel way better! I sat on my front porch tonite and enjoyed the summer air and my newly trimmed oak tree- it is BIG- out in my front yard... nice... I sat in an old wicker chair and enjoyed the quiet.

I am losing weight and looking more like the old me lately. I have been getting compliments, and liking who I see in the mirror more.

I have challenges, yes... but I can conquer. I am tired of the same ole same ole... something has to happen differently.

I am not so quick to action anymore. Time seems to solve some problems. God really does help.

I see problems work themselves out.

With my participation, my life can get better. God does have a plan for all of us.

Gibby- Thanks for reminding me - No Expectations. I know that. I don't always remember it though.

I know I can't help him get sober, or expect him to, I need to let go, and I do it better one day at a time.

I know I just don't know if we will stay married or D... but I do know I love him.. but I am feeling happy and more like me even without him.

It has been one crazy ride this year...

I have even gotten plastered with him to try to save the marriage... We all know that won't work... we even had fun, and wh of course liked me joining him in the drink.. but it wasn't me, and that wasn't the me he loves either.

I know my life can be rewarding and good with or without him. I am getting back to my old self that would only want a man in my life who truly loves me, and does it right. No more fighting, no more.

Thanks for being here. I am venting and thinking out loud here. I appreciate this forum and the support, it has helped me grow. I am glad day by day I am at least slowly improving, and even finding the old me, and making a new and better me.

Thanks Again- Honey

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />