Hi,
Well OW has introduced me to her kids, showed me her house, cooked for me, offered financial support, spent time every day with me for one week, and told me she will support me any way she can. Still though, I have a feeling deep down that it is wrong and I should return to my wife.

Not because my wife is a better choice, but because I am her husband who would be kind to consider the vows I took, what they mean, and how ending the affair would be a start to keeping the vows.

My question is, how do I get past the dependence I have on OW and the dependence she has on me? She has been so clinging to me this week (I to her), she knows I must decide about the divorce. We are always on the cell phone, we have had sex every day, we spend all the time we can together(as if it is over soon). She says she understands if I go back to my wife. Letting go of her, my strong feelings for her, our sexual relationship, and our plans for the future...this is hard for me. Everyone says just write the NC letter and thats it. Is it?

Blah

I guess you spent all that time with OW because your wife won't have anything more to do with you. I had urged you to take some time ALONE without either OW or your W by your side and really take some time to THINK and CONSIDER your life, and figure out who you are and what's important to you.

You seem to cling to whoever or whatever is willing to be there for you.

I suspect writing a NC letter won't do you a bit of good. You are DEEP in the fog and completely addicted to OW. If she were to invite you over the day after you wrote the NC letter, I'm sure you'd go if she made a persuasive enough explanation for why she needed to see you.

Yet you sound like you feel as though you should give up OW and return to your W.

Someone told me I sounded a little like you earlier today, since I made a remark about having both my H and OM out of my life. That made me mad, since I haven't had any contact with OM for months, and have wanted nothing but to reconcile with my unforgiving H.

It drives me nuts to no end that you don't see how your continual running to OW will most likely drive your W away forever, and she may never be willing to take you back (like my H).

All I can say is STOP THE INSANITY. Take some time away from both OW and your wife. I'm talking a couple of weeks here. Decide whether you want to:

a) be with OW and divorce your wife and NEVER be with your wife EVER again, or

b) be with your W, and write NC letter, and NEVER be with OW EVER again, or

C) be alone and start fresh, away from the addictive cycles associated with either OW or your W, and learn more about who you are and what really makes you happy.

I think something that would help you no matter which of those three options you went with would be some counselling to help you understand your addiction. As an armchair psychologist, I think you clealy have difficulty telling someone no if you perceive them to be in need, and you also desperately need to feel needed. What do you think?

Is there any chance you think you have the strength to spend two weeks away from OW or your W so you can do some soul-searching?

Jen

<small>[ June 01, 2003, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

I wish I had more to add, but speaking as a BS the clear answer for me is....run, run, run back to your W. You will be able to live with yourself.

How to break the addiciton? How helpful is your W at helping you do this? Wht would you miss most? The SF, the money, the attention, the admiration, her attractiveness? Can you ask these of your W. Can you make it difficult for the OW to contact you? Change #s, email, move?

Read up on addiction and twelve step programs. Even consider going to AA meetings. Don't laugh, I'm not joking. The song "Love is a Drug" is true, and you will find truth in those meetings, and MANY similarities between alcoholism and infidelity. How it destroys your life, family, and how to make amends.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by blah34:
<strong>this is hard for me. Everyone says just write the NC letter and thats it. Is it?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes it is. Cold turkey, man. Cold turkey.

My husband, incidentally, is toying with breaking the nicotine habit. He asked how I did it. I told him the easiest way to stop smoking cigarettes is to stop buying them.

And the easiest way to get over your addiction to a relationship is to stop feeding into it. Get it out of your head. Get it out of your heart. Get it out of your life.

It sounds like your lover is going through some other woman-version of Plan Aing you. She knows how real the chance is that you'll go back to your wife and she's desparate. She's trying to make your time together perfect. But do you really think your life together would be like that all the time if you went to her?

blah34 ,

it seems to me that you "know nothing" about woman, at least not very much.
A woman and mostly a "desparate woman" can make a man believe almost everything.

So she showed you her house, she showed you her kids, she cooked for you and she is having "sex" with you.

Honestly, is this all she has to offer????

If you would look abit closer and read between the lines, you would be able to notice many other things.

For example:
-she knows "exactly" what she wants
-she knows "how to do it!"
-she is doing everything to "catch you"
-she is only showing her "shiny side"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She says she understands if I go back to my wife. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">she is telling you that she is such a "kind" person and so "understanding"? and YOU actually believe her??????
HEY any woman can do this and most men will fall for it but just wait for the day that the "awaking" will come because believe me, IT WILL!!!!

She is offering you the best and she is "selling" her best sides to you because "she definately" knows what she wants.
She must be a good "sales woman" because they learn to get the customer thinking they "NEED" the item that is to be sold. (nothing new and it works in relationships too- unconcious behaving and the customer will crave for the "Item".)

Think about this and WAKE UP!!!!!!!
This is "typical female calculated behaviour" and the sad thing is that most men don't even "notice" what is being done with them!!!!

Try the following. Start to "Question" OW.
Don't just settle with "lovy-dovy" answers, dig in!!!!
Ask her what problems she had in her marriage and don't take the answer that her XH was a "[censored]".
That's too easy. OW certainly has flaws that she is definately not showing you.
-she knows what she wants and she'll do anything to get them, NO MATTER WHAT!
-she "knows" how to "express" herself and she therefore has a "high power" over you.
-she knows how to make you feel "super intelligent" and yet she will always know how to manipulate you.
-she is aware that "Sex" can "Stick a guys head in his $ss and she's giving it to you.

Really, wake up and start "reading between the lines".
Start to "Question" and most of all ask yourself: If OW was such a great person, why does she "WANT YOU"?
Why is she "taking the leftovers of a Married Man" when she could have the Best. I mean, she makes you believe that she is such a "Great Person".

You are both living a "LIE & FANTASY!" OW is getting her Needs fullfilled, she is using you and you don't even "Notice this".

Relationships, just aren't that easy. They never were and they never will be. It takes alot more than that!!!!!!
Any "woman" can give you what she is giving you, she surely isn't doing anything special. She's giving you "the special deed" and you fool are falling for it.

As I said: TYPICAL FEMALE CALCULATED BEHAVIOUR!"
And she knows what she is doing.
You actually believe that she is the loving, understanding, sensuell, passionate, beautifull soft wonderfull person she is "giving" you........
gosh are you a fool.

I as a woman can say, we learn this behaviour in school and you "poor" boys always fall for it. Only the "wise" ones learn and start to "question".

take care
bb
PS: the next time you have "sex" with her, ask her what she thinks about your wife at the moment.
Believe me, everytime you two have sex, she is trying to "hook you" and she is trying to get you away from your wife.
She is "trying her best" to get what SHE WANTS and it doesn't matter what "disaster" she leaves behind!! She wants what she wants and that is all she is thinking of.

Do you really think a woman like this is a good choice? She will be like this forever and she will always try to get what she wants and she will never consider others when she makes a decision.
Do you honestly believe that you will be able to handle this in the future???
You will NEVER be able to "Trust" and she will always be able to to get you thinking what she wants you to.
You will just never "see or notice" how tricky she is. Gosh................

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

bb

so Blah, I don't get it...Is this your usual mode of operation...

come here every few days...post a somewhat if not out rageous...then mimimally nebulous post about what you should do....

good people pour themselves out in advice...some times bought with their own pain that your waffling triggers...
(and know that I am not a betrayed spouse and I react this way to your superficialness in addressing YOU in your posts....)

so people will address, recomend, advise with some really good advice...
you won't respond though you started it...
you won't give more information so it's hard to really get to your issues...
you'll run and hide...and next week you'll post some thing about how you and your wife had a good few days and maybe you should be with her...

You start your post in narrating all these things the OW did...wrong BLAH...those are YOUR actions not the OW...anything she DID you let her...you alone are responsible for....

Blah I would be more than willing to help you..but you don't appear to want help...
you appear to want to post and run...
to busy with all that good food, good sex, good converation, visiting her crib,
hope you didn't spend the night with her children there....

keep running BLAH...but you can't out run yourself..no matter how much you try...and it's still YOU you are running from...

ARK who apoligizes if this is "mean" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
but really?????

ps i bumped last weeks cliff hanger...lots of people advised you there...perhaps you might want to finish what you started there....

<small>[ June 02, 2003, 07:26 AM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

blah,

just another thing that came to my mind. When a marriage becomes "Unhappy" it always involves "Two" people. Never is only one at fault but when one of them gets involved in an affair, it's obvious that the WS is not taking "responsibilty" and not willing to put in any effort.

It's easy to "switch" partners and think that everything will be great in the future. But as long as you are not willing to "make true changes" nothing will change.

You will be making the same mistakes over and over again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not because my wife is a better choice, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you expressing that your wife was a bad choice? If so, then become aware that the choices you have made in the past were "poor". Are you aware that the choice you are now making is absolutely "terrible"?
Or maybe not???? If you can "honestly" say that you have given 100% into your marriage and it's still not working, then just "get divorced!" But if you honestly give 100% into your marriage, you will surely become aware of the "difference" and what this does to a relationship.
You were definaely giving 100% when/before you married so you might "remember" the difference.

Why do you now think that your choice is better????
What have you changed about yourself???
Due to the fact that OW is divorced also become aware that she too makes "Poor" choices.

Put 1+1 together. Do you think that two people that have made such poor choices in the past and that are doing nothing to improve themselves will have
a better future????

At the time when you married your wife, you believed the best. It was based on honesty. I asume there was "No betrayal" involved, therefore your gut told you it was the right thing to do.

Why do you believe that this OW will make your dreams come true????
This is all based on lust, lies, trickness and fantasy.

Why don't you "wake up" and be honest to yourself??

OW is bringing out the worse sides of your personality and she's actually making you believe that the relationship you share is going to be great for the future.
-she expressing that "cheating" is ok
-she doesn't believe that a marriage promise is something precious
-she doesn't think that a married man should stick to his word

I'm sure that this situation will change "drastically" when she is your wife!!!!!!!! She will NO longer be understanding and loving and she will surely not have "sex" with you if she is being "cheated on". She will be acting like a "Wife" and she will NO longer be the OW!!!!!!!

If this "woman" was someone truely "special" she'd send you home and she'd tell you to work on your marriage.
She wouldn't be so cheap and have "sex" with you.

She'd want to have the situation "sorted out" before getting into a relationship with you. Until then, she wouldn't be giving the "best" of herself.
This might show you how desparate she is. She is giving you "everything" because there is not much more "left over".

She will not be a person you can ever count on and trust. She is not a person that you will ever be able to relay on.
She is definately not a person that will share the "Bad" days with.

Even if you think that this isn't your situation, the day will come and you are going to feel "rediculous" about yourself and how easy you were to "trick".

Right now OW is encouraging you to go for her. She is telling you that "betrayal" is ok and that you should stick with her.
In the future, she will turn the situation around. No longer will she tolerate lies and unhonesty because this time she is involved!!!!! All of a sudden it will matter to her "What kind of man" you are.
She's getting the best for herself right now and that is all that matters to her.

It's so easy to "dish out" when you are not the person being "hurt"!
If she was truely the woman that had such great "feelings & softness", she wouldn't be able to cope with the pain you are both putting your wife through.

bb

For what it's worth...

After reading this post, I have come to the conclusion that blah34 is your classic "troll".

Yes....troll...your everyday garden variety internet troll.

There is absolutely NO way someone could really be acting this out in real life. No one could be that self-absorbed.

I think his INTENSE grad program is fast on the heels of his summer thesis that puts him here. He is posting ludicrous posts and taking notes for his study of human behavior when people respond to his threads.

Let's see...

He can list anger, horror, disgust, confusion, pain, etc...it is all a matter of what name goes under what emotion.

Please list me under..... FINISHED! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

committed

Blah,

First I think that excellent advise has been given to you here I hope that you can benefit from it.

I can relate to some of what you feel because,as a WS, I was terribly addicted. I wanted to break the cycle all along, and tried, but just couldn't find the strength to completely sever myself. The turmoil and conflict within me about drove me over the edge, and yet I continued because I was *that* addicted.

So I know you are struggling and know that is why you are posting. You are reaching out for help because you are confused and doing something that basically goes against who you are.

I hope that you take the advice given to you here and figure out it is that you want because right now you are caught between two worlds and WILL NOT find peace until you do so. I KNOW....

As for me, in finally confronting my H about the A, I was able to finally sever myself and begin withdrawel and recovery. We picked up the pieces and the healing began. I still have my days (still withdrawing) but my life is sooo much better!

There is hope and light at the end of the tunnel. Your first step is breaking the addiction and the cycle that you are in. Get out of "the fog" you are in. You are most likely idealizing and romanticizing about the OP(as I did and every now and then look back as STILL catch myself doing!) Recognize this thought pattern. Recognize the grip the OP has on you and why. Look at the addiction and how you feel after getting your "fix" by being close to her. Recognize the highs and lows...the intensities and the pain.
- -Real love has no opposites.

Hold yourelf accountable, find out what it is that you want for yourself, make a choice and then become proactive in getting there. I know this is easier said than done but until you do, I know you will NOT find peace.

Good luck. I wish you strength and courage.
Keep posting regardless of some of the harsh feedback.

We are all on journeys.
Breeney

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Not because my wife is a better choice, but because I am her husband who would be kind to consider the vows I took, what they mean, and how ending the affair would be a start to keeping the vows.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm probably gonna get the proverbial 2x4 here, but here goes....

CHOICE? You haven't shown enough competence yet to make a choice.

You're Wife may very well be the BEST CHOICE YOU WILL EVER have in your LIFETIME, but I have come to the conclusion that you couldn't figure that out if it hit you square in the face.

The closest that you have come to "choosing" is to try and devise a way to have both.

I see your W making HER choice, soon.

Better hope that you can live with hers. 'Cause when that happens, your option to choose is gone.

If your W was doing exactly what your OW is doing, you would think that she was the scum of the earth, and couldn't fathom anybody wanting her because of it, let alone a commitment from her.

Yet the OW is different, huh? Go figure....

HCII

My WS has acknowledged to me that he is highly addicted to the OW. He has left me several times to go back to her. This process has been very destructive in our lives.

Is there anything that I can do? I've gone to PLAN B but am afraid that has been a mistake since at least he admitted awareness that he has an addiction.

I have not heard from his in several days. On the weekends, he immerses himself in a life with her.

Originally posted by blah34:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well OW has introduced me to her kids, showed me her house, cooked for me, offered financial support, spent time every day with me for one week, and told me she will support me any way she can. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like "Let's Make A Deal". Getting busy with a cost-benefit analyis, are you?

Also by blah34:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Still though, I have a feeling deep down that it is wrong and I should return to my wife.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can't fool you, not for a minute!

And the classic:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Not because my wife is a better choice, but because I am her husband who would be kind to consider the vows I took, what they mean, and how ending the affair would be a start to keeping the vows.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What a prince. Stay with OW and make your wife the winner, pal. You and the bimbo deserve each other. At least then you won't inflict your warped selves on anybody else.

Blah34:

Some question your sincerity, but I accept your post on face value. Some advice. If you are new here, take time to read. In fact, reading the out-pouring of pain, advice and shared experiences here is a far better use of your time than spending it with the other person if you are serious about saving your marriage.

Trust me, it's a lesson I learned the hard way. I too am a WS and facing the addiction problem.

You have been given some good advice here. I also recommend you find someone to open up to other than the OP and I'm not referring to another female. Talk to someone objective who can listen to you and, if necessary, tell you things you may not want to hear. That's a mistake I made. If you limit conversations of this type to the OP, guess what -- the answers you receive or advice offered simply reinforces the A.

There are numerous great posts here that can help. A couple worth mentioning are found in Notable Posts/Threads. To get there, go to Forum Home, then General Welcome for all New Builders and you will find the link to Notable Posts/Threads down near the bottom of that page. Read "What changed my mind" and "Help for betrayers who want to stop, but can't."

Good luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are always on the cell phone, we have had sex every day, we spend all the time we can together(as if it is over soon). She says she understands if I go back to my wife. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, same thing my husband's OW said after the affair had been outed and he was still in contact with her! But guess what happened when he didn't CHOSE like she thought he would? That's right she let me in on everything, sent me the emails. Wasn't that nice of her. Oh yeah, but ofcourse she didn't do it to hurt me, she just "THOUGHT I SHOULD KNOW" (in her words)! Funny how she didn't think I should know DURING the continued contact. That's because she thought that if she was as sweet as apple pie, gave him everything that he thought he wanted that he would surely pick her over me, because as she would say to him..."I JUST WANT TO SEE YOU HAPPY"! translation= I just want to see you happy as long as you stay with me! Boy are you in for a rude awakening and in my opinion a well deserved one!

Warning .... rant follows - not MB approved

Sunny looks at the 2x4, discarding it in favour of a 6x6....WHACK!

Blah, you are such a self-centred, spoiled, egotistical, selfish (and all such similar adjectives) louse.

Are you hanging around until somebody tells you what you want to hear and will you then use it as the self-serving excuse to hurt an innocent person?

Get with it! People have told you over and over what is needed, but you keep coming back with the same $%#@.

Perhaps you should let your W get on with her life, you really don't sound like a keeper to me. Then you can get together with that conniving OW and you can proceed to make each other miserable. It will be your just deserts!

I told you before on another post to get a backbone and decide. Do so now!

I am going to see a priest today. I am trying to be honest and unbury myself out of this big mess.

Committed,
Thank you, you have been helpful to me, sorry you don't believe me, I am a human being, not a troll.

Thanks to everyone for replying. I hope I can change.

Here I am! The BS of Blah34. Read all his postings just now and was totally turned off and upset with the man I was married to, the HONEST man whom I TRUSTED and whom was madly in love with me...., he just got himself deeper and deeper, OW and I had spoken and I knew exactly what kind of game she is playing and I know what she is capable of, I predicted that she would use her children and her house to lure him back, because that IS all she has LEFT to make him addicted to her, she said to me that "I have been the MOST understanding and wonderful woman is in his life...." she is a big fat liar, guess what she makes my H believes her blindly, I feel embarrass by my H completely. She freaks out every time she feel him "wanted" to "go home". She knows she is not pretty and she is not even attractive, I had seen her picture, she is indeed a SALES WOMAN who talks BIG, all in a sudden within a week, she works magic on my H and he buys all her "actions", he is in denial and he wants his cake and eats it too, I told him he can go, and I am pretty and smart, not to mention LOYAL to my H if not always then at least the last 3 years. I could NEVER trusted OW, my H is weak, I know, guess what, blondeblossom, I am at the end of this struggle and I can see my H crying for help, no job, no school, no marriage, no wife and no money..my H probably never mentioned she sleeps around like any slut, that is what she is a slut and a
master manipulator! I am tired, this Saturday 6-7 will be our 6th anniversary, I discovered his A last year on our 5th anniversary when we checked out from a hotel in HK, now this has become OUR 1st anniversary of his discovered A...you can imagine how torn I have been....I am through, he shows no remorse, he shows no mercy, he is hurting not just me but everyone else who loves us..I feel helpless and hopeless and I know I shall leave him and NEVER turn back, then he will never had to make any choice, he has got the worst!!! An adulterer and a manipulator. I am unsure if the priest can help him for he HASN'T shown that he wants to be helped. I know I am stronger each day, he is indeed a very good man with special needs and live with an addictive bahavior as an recovered alcoholic. And he is a very handsome and well built man that no doubt has attracted many women, but I never dreamed he would have an A while he is still married to me, it took me a long time to even believe that he actually hurt me like this, more than any human can possibly do...I am totally betrayed and hurt and torn.

blah,

I wish you the best. I wouldn't say you are a "troll", I'd just say that you have to make up your mind and find the right direction.

Your "gut" told you that you were doing the right thing when you married and now you don't feel that you are doing the right thing.
Listen to your gut as it never lets you down.

If your affair was such a "great thing" you wouldn't have such a stuggle.

bb

Only because I am wondering about the troll thing myself-]
Blah34 says he has been married 7 years.
Lehua says 6 years.
Which is it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Actually in Oct will be our 7th year, we had a the civil ceremony Oct 96, and church wedding June 97.