i haven't posted for ages but i am nearly one year from d day and am posting here today to try and keep me from filing for divorce.
my ww has had me on a sort of trial from hell for the past year waiting to see if i could meet her emotional needs whilst lying about her continuing affair. i tried to believe her most of the time despite the evidence of continuing secrecey and unnaccounted time. she is still angry at me for disclosing her affair to the local community but since doing so i have not provided new information to anyone for months and have been suffering in silence.
when i got hold of her secret cell phone bills viea the net i found that she was still in daily contact with her lover as usual her response easy extreme rage and said that she hadn't seen him since d day. i taped her arranging to meet him over xmas but she said it was a "hoax" can you believe that?!
i tried to trust her again although the rowing was awful. no sex between us for 6 months. i felt that her opportuities to see him were becoming less but she still insisted on evenings away at her mothers near to her lover's house and would always go out those nights with her "friends".
she took the kids to a theme park last week and managed to fit a night at her mother's on the way there and back. curiosity got the better of me and i decided to tape her talking to her best friend because i new she would relay details of the trip. she admitted to her that she had seen "him" on the 2 nights in question. as usual she has tried all sorts of complicated lies to explain this away as something other than the obvious.
sorry to go on but what do i do now?? i console myself that he obvioiusly cant meet all her emotional needs particularly the finanial and childcare ones but there is no sign of her giving up the ones he offers her which are sex conversation and love and i am quite sure he is better than me at all 3 at least for now. her attitude remains "why should i give him up when you can't meet my needs?" she doesn't want a divorce and neither do i but i can't stand this hell anymore. i dont feel i could cope moving out on my own and feel the old symptoms of depression coming on at the thought of it but i feel i need to put pressure on thier relationship to make it fail. why doesn't he get fed up of her for not leaving or divorcing me? i just dont get it. thanks mark

it sounds to me like she is fence-sitting. You talk about plan A 'falling apart', but did it really?

Have you moved to plan B at all?

thanks, sitting on the fence is simple but true. i can't/won't do plan b because i dont feel strong enought to move out on my own and if i don't remove some of my financial support at the same time i feel it would suit her too much and she wouldn't care. she is vey materialistic and doesn't want to give up the house and the kids for this om.

well I don't see that the current situation can continue. You will need (if you don't already) to move to plan B for your own sake and that of your kids. I don't know what the legal position is where you are, but I'd imagine some kind of separation would be the next step. I'm sure some of the wiser heads here will be better able to advise.

Did you went to counseling?

Seems to me your wife is getting it all too easy, and you are allowing that. Yes I know about the love part, but what happened to the love for yourself? are you willing to spend the rest of your life depressed for this or in an "open" marriage?

I try not to advice this, but either she works on this really hard, or it would be wise for you to go into plan B or some separation. We all know the shock treatment?? And yes let her test some of the reality for a change, you'll be amazed on what that can do to a person...

Anyway for you it's been a year in the same spot... Have you tryed all it takes to make her out of it? Seems you have to try harder or change tactics...

Take care

thanks matilde, i think you are right about her needing a dose of reality. she is getting her own way at the moment. she has her affair her kids her home and a husband to provide for her although she doesn't see the latter. i don't think she has thought about some of the disadvantages of me leaving and when i threaten or suggest divorce she gets angry which always confuses me mark

Of course she gets angry with you when you mention divorce. She is a cakewoman and you are enabling her. She has and continues to have a sexual affair under your nose and enjoys all of the material benefits to your marriage. You are being played. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. What kind of message is she giving to your family that she can just come and go as she pleases and has sex with her boyfriend? I am sure the boyfriend is happy.
He gets to have lots of sex with no strings or committment or responsbility for her material needs. You have not set any boundaries and I am sure if and when this affair ends she will probably seek out another one because she gets all of the benefits without having to deal with any of the consequences. Allowing her to continue this humiliation and disrespect to you sends a powerful message to your family that you are willing to accept any and all types of disrespect and emotional abuse from her. If you do not have self respect for yourself then at least have respect for your family. How can she have respect for you when you allow her to walk all over you and have sex with her lover under your nose?
NO CONSEQUENCES TO HER ACTIONS EQUALS NO MOTIVATION TO CHANGE. You need to get you head out of the sand. Do you really think your wife would accept all of this humiliation if the roles had been reversed? She cannot respect you if you do not respect yourself. I wish you luck.

empc,

Man it must hurt where you are. I would say that I feel your pain, but really I can't - but I can certainly imagine it.

I think you did the right thing to tell others about the affair. Is the OM married? Does his wife know?

In all of this, you have to take care of your relationship with the kids.

I agree with the others that some kind of plan B is probably going to be needed. You are worn out.

Maybe you go into Plan B in two stages.

But before going into it, you have to tell her - that you love her and want to make it work, but you've come to the end of your patience and have to prepare to move on with your own live.

1st stage, you stop trying to meet any of her needs.

This would mean that you stop going out of your way to do anything for her - stop taking care of things you used to take care of - stop spending time with her. This may even mean opening seperate bank accounts and start limiting her available funds. Then, she has to start legal proceedings to regain access to them - or start taking the marriage seriously and trying to please you. It puts her in the position of having to make a move. Probably, when this happens, she will try to bully or threaten you, and if that doesn't work, she will try to bargain with you, and the exchange she will offer is her promises for your money. You've got to turn that deal down. It has to be an exchange of action for action. Promises at this point are worthless.

2nd stage, you start to make arrangements to live separately. If possible, you need to force her out of the house. This may mean putting the house up for sale - which you probably would have to do anyway in the event of divorce. Yes, it will enrage her, but you have been controlled by her rages for far too long. If she becomes violent, call the police. I know. That sounds so extreme, but you are in an extreme situation. I have lived with a raging wife. (She's still my wife, but she rarely rages anymore - not even 5% as bad as it was at the worst times.) One time the police were called and I'll tell you that she suddenly found a way to sit down and talk reasonably for a half-hour. I'll bet your W won't do it again after that. Is she part owner of the house? Is she actively involved in any of your businesses?

I'm guessing you are in UK. Am I wrong? I don't know any of the laws there? There are a few MB posters in the UK who might have some legal experience - I remember one guy who owned a pub with his wife and thought he owned a house with her, but the house was in her name and she just kicked him out and moved in her lover. So, if she could do that, then probably if the house is in your name only, you can force her to leave also. You've got to be tough here.

Look, it's very likely to come to divorce. You can't live like this. It will kill you - kill your spirit. So, now is the time for strong medicine. Maybe it will kill the marriage. Maybe it will cure it.

Good luck.

-AD

thanks AD, thats vey blunt and problably good adivce. yes i am in the uk and the laws here dont discriminate against the ws unfortunately. the house in is joint names and i would have no right to kick her out and vice versa. she sought legal advice last year before d day and asked me to leave - bit of a shock but the penny never dropped. you are right she has no respect for me and treats me like dirt. i still try to do the odd domestic chore to impress her but it hasn't been appreciated over the last year so i am starting to get more lazy! she still has more free time than me but hotly denies it. she sees herself as superwomen - works harder than me has more free time does more things and still has time for an affair - all i do is work and come home and see to the kids heeds and little else. i'll see what she is like tonight when she gets home she knows now that i know she is still seeing om so this raises the stakes a lot. next time she goes away i will insist on taking the kids somewhere she hates them going eg my sister's house to see there cousins. she made me cut them out of our lives after my sister called her " a greedy manipulative cow" she didn't know my wife had her ear to the phone. oh happy memories of 2002!

AD i forgot to answer your question. yes om is married but has left his wife 1 year ago according to my ws but i think it is true. i think the plan was to kick me out of my house without me realising what was going on but d day ruined all of that for them. their plan was a long term relationship but since they haven't moved out in the open with it this doesn't look likely.
my ws seems to ashamed to admit the relationship in the locality and acts as normal as she can. last year i was dreading her having the guts to be open about it because i new it would be the end of me, but now as you say she is basically a cake eater and i am allowing it. i am a uk family doctor and occasionally advise patients in my postition and am now much more qualified to do so.
posting today has relieved a lot of built up stress i was in tears earlier as the outcome of my recent snooping sunk in - she still sees him and problably never stopped - she says she gave me a chance but all the experts say is that the A has to stop for this to be the case. i think she only gave me a chance for appearences sake. she is frightened of her infidelity becoming new gossip again.
on the subject of the om's wife, would you tell her about her ws? i really don't think she would know that the A was happening before he left. i am my ws will create trouble with my elderly parents in revenge. mark

HI there,

Thanks for posting on my thread – yes, the situations are v. similar. Reading through your story I thought: hey man, can’t you see? Get a life, you need to break this cycle, otherwise you’re just continuing to suffer…. Then I realised that I’m actually in exactly the same position!
Well, here we go. As you know, so far I’m not exactly the shining light to follow. BUT let me try to give my 2c worth of advice anyway. Let’s face the facts first:
The bad:
- Your WW is still in contact with OM
- 1 year after d-day and you haven’t made any progress really
- She seems to like the current situation just as it is, and you seem to tolerate it
- Your ENs are most obviously not fulfilled at all
The good:
- She is lying to you. That’s obviously bad in itself, but her lying indicates that she does not want to lose you (that’s a difference compared to my case by the way – after 12 month or so of lying, my WW doesn’t lie anymore and openly doesn’t make any effort at all to trying to keep me)

I know exactly what is going through your mind. Why are you keeping up with this? What is it – fear of being alone? Of losing the kids? Of starting all over again, having and running your own place? Try to explore this a bit further. Why are you afraid and getting depressive thinking of living in an own place? You may realise at some point that you have actually more to gain and not too much to lose. At this point, you know you are ready to let go. Not that this is easy or that this makes you happy instantaneously. But it will be sort of an inflexion point after which things will have to change, either one way or another, but both ways point up up up. That’s at least how I feel for the moment.

Also, you can tell yourself – if your actions remain as is, the situation will not change. That’s a fact. I truly think the only time when your WW gets a wake up call, is when you are moving out, or to be precise, when she sees that you are emotionally ready to let go and move on. Then she knows it’s serious. Before that, there are all these little buttons she can press to keep you around and give you just enough for you to stay – so she can have the cake and eat it too.

(Wow, I almost convinced myself by all this. All I gotta do now is actually walk my talk – but this time I will, ‘cause I just can’t take it any more!)

<small>[ June 03, 2003, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

Plan B time, obviously.

My suggestion is to figure out what it would take for you to go Plan B and then start heading that way. Whether you had a decent or stellar Plan A doesn't really seem to matter anymore.

It isn't healthy for you or for the kids.

FWIW, one of my regrets about my own situation was not going to Plan B sooner.

Question though, why would you antagnoize your W by taking the kids to the sister's place? That seems just plain spiteful or petty. Whatever good will you have should probably be saved for the harsh dose of reality that will set in once your WW realizes that treating you like crap is not what decent human beings are supposed to do.

And FWIW, if she doesn't come back almost begging, you are probably going to have a hell of a rotten recovery. Your situation indicates a defiant FWS that will want you to do all the work.

This is on top of what most others have already said.

empc,

Thanks for the additional info.

Looks like I got lucky using the "strong medicine" metaphore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Even though your W says that OM left his wife a year ago, that may not be exactly true. I think it is very likely to be helpful to contact her - to exchange information with her. She may tell you some things about OM that you don't know - and that your W doesn't know either. Things are not always as they seem. Another thing some people have done is get some kind of criminal background check on the OM. Sometimes there are surprises. Anything you find, you can use to put doubts into your W's mind. Maybe it seems like a longshot, but it may be worth a few pounds to check it out.

You being a doc seems like a big advantage. You know how to go through a problem-solving/decision-making process in life-or-death situations. Ok, so most of the time you refer the life-or-death cases to a specialist, but anyway, I think your problem-solving skills can come in handy here.

...and maybe you can use a specialist. I personally can't afford it, but the Harley's are available for phone consultation at $185/session (about 45 minutes or so). To schedule, click on "Counsel" at the top of any page.

Good luck,

-AD

Frankly, I don't see how your marriage has a chance of being saved without your willingness to implement Plan B. So if Plan B is out of the question (unfortunately), my vote is for you to continue spreading the truth to other people about her continuing her A with the OM while pretending to be the good wife. If she gets mad at you for doing it, SO WHAT? If she feels she is doing nothing wrong by continuing to lie and cheat, then she shouldn't mind that the truth of her ongoing infidelity should be known by everybody in town. She doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions, and if you are unwilling to do what's necessary to save your marriage, you are enabling her with more of those same actions.

Your purpose in exposing her continued betrayal has nothing to do with being mean spirited towards her but to inject a toxic dose of reality in her fantasy life for the purpose of saving your marriage (if it can be saved) and for the benefit of your children as well.

<small>[ June 03, 2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

AD you got lucky with your words twice. unfortuantely om is a police officer and therefore unlikely to have a crimial record!
i'm not sure about contacting his wife it seems spiteful although i know om is worried about this because implied i might do so in a heated phone call months ago and he got angry at the idea.

also i am not sure about your advice in telling other people. when we went to counselling last year the counsellor wiped the floor with me for telling at that stage as basically the advice was that if you wanted your wife back you had to do everything she wanted me to even if it meant protecting the ongoing affair. i will tell people though why i am going to divorce her. it's funny but my gut feeling is still to please her although it goes unnoticed and she still cheats. thanks again

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">when we went to counselling last year the counsellor wiped the floor with me for telling at that stage as basically the advice was that if you wanted your wife back you had to do everything she wanted me to even if it meant protecting the ongoing affair.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Too bad you can't get your money back because so far that counselor's advice has done absolutely nothing to rebuild the marriage and given her a license to continue her A unabated. I guess you should have asked him/her if 'wife back' meant 'wife back without further contact with the OM and a willingness to work on rebuilding the marriage' or 'wife back with further contact with OM and no willingness to work on rebuilding the marriage'.

empc,

I think there are two sides to telling.

On the one hand, telling "everybody" may make it hard to get back in the swing of things socially with your wife in the event of reconciliation. Depending on what kind of person she is, she may then be so mortified that she simply wants to disappear - and if OM is some distance away, might consider running to him as a way to get away from the social disgrace.

On the other hand, telling some people - important people to her - will certainly put pressure on her. How she responds to that presure is an individual unknown. Harley recommends it (as does Dobson - in "Love Must Be Tough" - book) as a way of bringing the affair to a rapid end.

The people who really count will handle the situation discretely (sp?) and in the long run (if you stay together) will be OK with it. And, if all is in the open in the long run, it is easier for all of you than keeping it as some dark secret - held over her head for years to come. She will recover from the embarrasment.

There is a good book called " Family Secrets " which offers some insights on this question. There are several books by that title. This is the one I have, but the others cover similar topics.

-AD

<small>[ June 03, 2003, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Contact OMW ASAP if you can. In my case my WW told me that the OM had told his W about the affair and they had seperated and asked me to promise not to call and hurt her further, so I didn't. I actually called OM and he told me that his marriage was finished. Nearly two months later my older D called OM house and his W answered. OMW had absolutely no idea that her H was seeing anyone. That day OM called my WW and told her he would no longer see her. Unfortunately so far my WW has choosen not to return home, and she did have phone contact with OM for another three weeks, but she has not been with him for seven weeks now and it looks like the calls have stopped as well. Even if the OM and his W are no longer together she could hold information that may help you.

empc,

If I understand the authors' point, any family secret undermines the connectedness of the family members - and this problem tends to get worse with each generation. So, they would advise telling aunts/uncles/cousins etc. about the affair.

So, in your case, the most important people (the kids) know. I don't see any harm in telling others - and there is a lot to gain.

Harley advises it as well, of course.

-AD

<small>[ September 25, 2003, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: AD. ]</small>