Hi, I've posted here a few times but haven't got many replies. Probably because I don't post often and people aren't familiar with me. But I desparately need some advice as to what to do.

My WH has been involved in an affair for over a year (his 3rd). DD was in October and he has repeatedly told me since then that he doesn't love me and does not want the marrige. We are separated but tried joint counselling which fell apart when he wouldn't give up OW. We are currently signing off on the separation of our assets and he again has said he doesn't love me and the marriage is over. However, he also doesn't think a divorce is necessary. It's not the cost because in my province I can file uncontested divorce papers for about $75.00. He just says we don't need one.

I tried a very shaky Plan A but moved to no contact about a month ago except for issues involving the finances and our daughter. I am tired and want to give up and file the divorce papers but today when finalizing a few financial details he said again there was no need. He also hinted that things are not going well with OW. He said that I am slowly destroying that relationship. I asked how but he wouldn't reply.

I don't want a divorce but I also don't want to live the rest of my life with false hope. At our last counselling session the therapist gave me as much time as I needed to tell him why I wanted the marriage, how I felt and why I thought we could work through this. But he again stated that it was over and she suggested we end the counselling.

Should I just give up and try to get on with my life. I know some of the things he's said and done are identical to what I read here but has anybody had this situation and how did you handle it?

Please reply. I feel like I'm coming apart at the seams. My family is no help any more. They just say forget him and move on. I feel so alone in my beliefs that we can still be happy.

IM sorry your hurtting.I dont really know what to tell you, but I would be interested in knowing why he doesnt want a divorce...and how are you destroying that relationship???How are you to blame???And are you willing to be there when that one does crumble???

I'm sorry for your situation, it sounds very tough. You ask should you give up and just go on with your life, but also say that you don't want to give up.

That makes me think you need a combination of the two. Realistically, he might not ever come back. For that reason, it makes sense for you not to be "on hold". You should, to some extent, make plans for your life to go on. You should care for yourself, consider career, etc etc. Since you are separated, you don't have much chance to work on your relationship with him, but since you DO see each other sometimes, avoid LBs, bitterness, etc. If he does end his relationship with OW, he may want to reconcile, so you don't want to burn any bridges, since that's also what you want.

But, do not obsess over it. Be willing to go on without him, as that is also a possibility. And, you might want to consider a timeframe, by which if there is not any sign of hope for a reconciation, that you may have to just move on.

I do think it's odd that he says he feels no need for a divorce. That could be a sign of hope, or it could just be odd.

I wish I could help, but I don't see a clear answer.

Thanks so much for replies. This is the most painful time in my life and I get so confused as to what is the right thing to do.

HMTHK: Yes I am willing to be there if this relationship crumbles. As to how I'm destroying it my H uses every excuse to have contact with me. He has even called me from OW's house. The only thing I can think of is she is getting tired of it and possibly asking him to choose. But that's just a guess and how that's my fault I don't know.

Squeak: I have faced the possibility that we might not get back together and am living my life right now as if that's so. I am starting some new university courses, have joined a running group and generally carry on as if everything is normal. We are separating the finances at my insistence so I know my future is secure financially. He didn't even want to do that. He says we don't need a divorce it's just a piece of paper. As he's already seeing another woman maybe that's the way his morals go. I don't know anymore.

The thing I am having trouble with is my own feelings. I've lived alone and looked after my daughter, the house, the dogs and everything else for the last 10 months so I'm not afraid of that anymore. But my heart doesn't want to let go yet but how much more suffering do I have to go through.

The only thing that keeps me hoping is that I have read where other MBer's have said their WS has said they don't love them, they want a divorce, they've found the love of their life, etc. but still they reconciled and their marriages are in recovery. And I can't help wondering if there's still a chance of that for me and my H.

perhaps you should step up your plan A for you...

think about doing 180's
think about showing him someone who is confidant and becoming more and more happy with life...

think about becoming someone who is not so focused on him and all the pain and drama he has brought to his life..

think about showing him glimpses of what he really stands to lose...a happy wife and daughter....

think about looking smashing each time you come in contact with him..

have the house smelling great when he is comeing over from something good in the oven...but don't offer him any,...

plan something you and daughter would like...consider inviting if you can handle it...and be prepared for him to say and and GO anyways...

find something new and exciting that interests you...was it you Lor who took up belly dancing... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

no no relationship talk...

look for orchids posts on reverse babble and learn how to babble back but good,,,

I don't want a divorce...says he...
you say back...
geeze that's strange cause I don't want to be married to someone who says they don't love me...goodness isn't that strange...bat eyes and walk away...

an even better babble back would be...something like....hmmmm I wonder how many people get sick from eating to much watermellon on the forth of july...did you ever wonder that dear??

try some 180's
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which
may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with
your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

change you by imagining the person you want to become and move towards becoming her...
be good to you....

how old is your daughter...
do others know of his affair...family friends...

the more info you give us the more we can help you make a plan through all this mess...

ARK

Hello married4life,

The only thing that concerns me about your situation is your previous "shaky" Plan A. A good Plan A is a requirement before going to Plan B. Other than that, what MIGHT BE happening is that your separation is having positive effects for POSSIBLE marriage rebuilding (so maybe your "shaky Plan A" wasn't as "shaky" as you think?).

If at all possible, get an appt with Steve Harley. If that is not possible, try to wait for replies from experienced/successful MBers who can help you sort this out. In the meantime, it might be helpful to read some of the info pages of this site, especially where W Harley talks about what to do when WH is still in contact with OW.

I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but there are others here who can be.

Take care married4life

Ok taking deep breathe, Ill share abit with you not to give oyu false hope not to crush but its all I can offer my experience.
Ive not gotten to detailed in here but Im getting closer.
1} silly fight noone speaks for 1 week other than biz or kids
2}bs finally says we have to tak we cant behave this way.
3}ws response"theres nothing to say, I dont love you"
4}BS respnose"huh"
5}ws"yes I need to see what I want in life, I dont love you and havent in a long time, I want out, I dont want it to work, I dont want to work onit"
6} bs response : she sits in closet and cries all night
this is the beginning for me. Ive been thru it all, he moved, he never would admit anything until he had come back home and we were in counseling.Talk about a world rocking.
Not wantting to let go, yes I know that feeling, if you ever ever sense a piece f the man you know in there , if for any reason youve seen something, dont rush it. If she is making him make choices he will skip out . As I said its all I can say from my experience I didnt know about MB until recently. In my case the ow has made my life what I call the year of hell. Rumors,hurtting kids,lies,emails,posting on web pages,biz clients you name it.Yet here I am, working to heal myself and my marriage. I want to be a happy person, I want to be off meds, I want to not be afraid any more. Im trying to conquer small things daily.
What are your true feelings on a whole?
Do you calmly talk and follow the no LB style?

OMG - Married4life -

Our stories are so similiar, except that WH says he wants to work things out, yet has not NC w/ OW yet. Tried last Sunday, but he still chickened out. I want to talk to you. Share my feelings, since it seems we are wanting the same things out of our situations. I will write more later - have to leave to pick up kids.

<Hi there ark....we were posting at the same time>

Hi married4life,

ark gives good advice on these boards <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank all of you so much. I feel so much better it's amazing. To answer some questions my daughter is not a child, she is 20. We have an extremely close relationship and do quite a few things together. However, this situation has brought her a lot of pain and I am trying to deal with that as well as my own. My H won't talk to her about the situation - it makes him too uncomfortable. Go figure! We also have a 25 year old son who does not live at home.

Everyone that I could think of knows about the affair. I revealed it to family, friends, his co-workers, etc. back in December after reading something about it on this site. He was extremely angry with me but I am not sorry I did it. Since then I think some of the bloom has come off the rose. He is not comfortable with other people knowing his business.

I said my Plan A was shaky because I couldn't completely eliminate the LB's and DJ's and these are things he constantly pointed out to me. I felt no contact would be better and I outlined for him the reasons why. However, he does things like be late with money or not come through on something he promised our daughter so then I contact him but he always says he doesn't know what the big deal is he just forgot.

Anyway, I have to pick up my daughter from rugby but your replies have certainly helped me with my peace of mind for sure. Thank you.

This being his third affair, I'd spend little time in plan A and consider moving to Plan B sooon! He's obviously being very manipulative by talking about how things aren't working with OW and by saying you don't need a divorce. In someone who is having their 3rd A, I'd venture to say this is about more than his emotional needs not being met. He will continue to have affairs until he's forced to face the natural consequences of having them. You wanting a divorce from a H who has cheated multiple times and who insists he doesn't love you and says the marriage is over is natural, isn't it? He simply doesn't want the consequences. Maybe if he got a taste of them he'd think twice before he slept with anything that comes his way. Then again, maybe he has a sexual addiction. Either way your situation calls for the advise of one of the Harley's. Have you considered calling them?

In the mean time, ARK's advice is perfect.

M4L: Here's my take on your post:

M4L: .... However, he also doesn't think a divorce is necessary. It's not the cost because in my province I can file uncontested divorce papers for about $75.00. He just says we don't need one.

Orchid: You gotta wonder why??? How come? Ow not that great? Read up on cakemen. Not sure who has that thread but if you ask, the thread will show up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (keep that point in mind, OW ain't that great).

M4L: I tried a very shaky Plan A but moved to no contact about a month ago except for issues involving the finances and our daughter. I am tired and want to give up and file the divorce papers but today when finalizing a few financial details he said again there was no need.

Orchid: Hm..... what was shaky about your plan A. How did you do the NC? Where are you with that? How long has your plan A vs plan B been going on? Your getting tired c/b a sign that you need to plan on moving on. I certainly understand the tired piece, I got sooo tired, I tried to mush (right mush not push), the WS and OW together..... I was tired of their crappy game, I just wanted my money (his financial obligation to his family) and then be done with him.

M4L: He also hinted that things are not going well with OW. He said that I am slowly destroying that relationship. I asked how but he wouldn't reply.

Orchid: Hm..... well you may not know how but that is even better. Then you are really innocent of causing them to LB each other. Pat yourself on the back for this piece of info. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> U crafty BS U!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> This is a GOOD sign.

M4L: I don't want a divorce but I also don't want to live the rest of my life with false hope.

Orchid: Ok, U don't but right now he does. So let him know that while you don't want it (don't explain it), tell him you want him to be happy even if it makes you and your family miserable. (a bit of reverse babble there). Let him mull that thought. If he asks what does that mean, just repeat it. Look a bit puzzled and shake your head.... u may want to pratice because this is a very illogical step to normal people but when dealing with the fogheads of the A, it can also send them for a loop.

M4L: Should I just give up and try to get on with my life. I know some of the things he's said and done are identical to what I read here but has anybody had this situation and how did you handle it?

Orchid: Keep busy, take care of yourself and your children. Reassure your children of your love and that you will not abandon them as their father did. Don't answer too much for the actions of their dad. Defer them to him as much as possible. Let them know their questions and statements are important. Where you can't answer, tell them so and encourage them to ask their father. Or they can write to their father or even draw a picture. Either way, they need to have a way to vent. This can be to your family's advantage. Don't under estimate the skills of our children.

M4L: Please reply. I feel like I'm coming apart at the seams. My family is no help any more. They just say forget him and move on. I feel so alone in my beliefs that we can still be happy.

Orchid: Yes you will feel like that.... it is temporary.....there are what we call the 5 stages of grieving which is a similar process to what the BS goes through. If you can find Redhat's sig line (or he may show up and post), his sig line has a thread called the 5 stages of grieving. Worth a read.

Anxiety attacks are quite common during this time. Be prepared and don't be a hero. If your body wants to shut down, allow yourself rest time. See your doctor if you need additional help.

take care and keep posting. Posting here was therapy for me.

NOTE: Please consider deeply the posts by Ark and Mtthrbbard (ooohhh I always forget how to spell her user name - arrrgh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

L.

<small>[ June 12, 2003, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Mthrrbard:

Yes my WH's affairs are about more than his emotional needs not being met. He was sexually abused by a priest for a number of years in his early teens. He is working with a counsellor now but they have only just started to examine the issues. He had never revealed it in 30 years but all the scandals and publicity in the last 10 years or so are what seemed to cause a shift in him and the affairs began.

Ark:

I like your advice but #1 and 21 I am always struggling with. I feel the only way for me right now is to limit contact with him and work with my own counsellor to get my emotions under control. So that on the few occasions where we do have contact I can project the happy, confident woman that I want him to see and remember. One of the things he always admired was my confident, take chage attitude but in the last 10 months he's seen an emotional dishrag too many times.

Orchid:

I know the OW ain't that great and that's what I keep saying to myself. But the one comment he has made about her in the past is that she is unemotional and makes no demands. I think by his comments today that might be changing. Maybe a little time without me in the picture will give him a better look at what he's chosen. They have nothing in common and the few times he's talked to me he's filled me in on all the areas of his life that we used to share. A good sign?

By the way, I am on Anti-D's. My sister was diagnosed with luekemia last year and the stress was just too much. Thank God, she responded to treatment and has been in remission for one year now! The major bright spot in my life and the thing that gives me faith.

married4...

couple things...I agree that you should perhaps step up your plan A since even in plan b there appears to be so much contact.

I also have concerns him being on his third affair...this guy has no clue idea what commitments and a real partership are....are sure he is worth YOUR value...

Sooo anywho....

Know that it's really good feedback...that he tells you that your lbing and losing your cool are what he focuses on...so totally derail him...

Change those things because it is exactly what he expects you NOT to do...
And each time you hold back from not calling him names or attacking with emotional stress...each time you refrain know that you are getting more control over YOU and things...

If the pattern is that he does A and you always react with b...stop reacting...
and soon he will realize that doing A with you no longer works....

I also believe that you need to seriously look at consider your role of intervention and protection when it comes to your daughter...

You do her and yourself a dis-service when you protect him from her emotions about HIS actions as well as when YOU take on her battles about his broken promises...

Broken promises to HIS daughter need to be worked out between the two of them...NOT YOU>...you stay out and let him feel the consequances NOT from you but from her...

she needs to learn to confront and deal with her dad.
he needs to learn that HIS actions and behaviors affect many many people.

become clinical and emotionally removed from the money issues....document and keep track of late fees etc...

detach emotionally from those things to the best of your ability,
QUIT expecting anything but broken promises and it will effect you less...
SEEK others to assist you in things that he can or would do..
example if he still helps with house maintanance...do it yourself, or get a friend or family...and be nice about it..but say..oh didn't think you were interested in fixing that..didn't want to bother you....

small consistant changes will get his attention...BUT more importanly will get YOU out of the cycle of same old same old patterns that keep you from moving forward..with or without him...

ARK

Ark,

I've read and re-read your reply and and it's good advice which I am going to follow. My WH e-mailed today to tell me of another delay in the financial argeement and how he might have to change a few things and instead of answering I simply called my lawyer and asked her to handle everything from now on. I really wanted to call him and let him have it but that's what he looks for so he can justify his behaviour.

I also spoke with my daughter today and told her that I would not be having contact with her dad for reasons I explained and that she would have to tell him when she was upset with him or when he failed to meet a commitment to her. It's going to be difficult for her but I know it will help her grow as a person in her own right.

I have tried to save my marriage because I believe in the vows we took and the "for better or worse part". However, I am going to take some time with no contact with WH to decide if perhaps after 3 affairs he truly is a person who cannot promise commitment and fidelity. Maybe sometimes you do have to let go and look after yourself.

Thanks for the advice.