and I want to get to the true source of why it happened. It was ongoing for 3.5-4 months. Mid to end of January 2003- April 2003. (he won't give me a straight answer and friends that knew about situation aren't clear either about length.)

I am pregnant with child #2 right now and he keeps using that as his excuse. He knows I am having a tough time of it right now in my first trimester and getting morning sickness all day. He does not want to upset me even more than I already am. I don't want the sordid details. I got enough of them but I want to get to the root of why he did what he did.

I am an addiction counsellor and one of the easiest people to talk to...one of the things that attracted him to me in the first place. He and I were really struggling from September 2002 to about the end of March 2003, but throughout it all, we were physically intimate and told each other that we loved each other. He says he was in a real funk, he was relying on me for support for paying all the bills and felt he had no power. He said he was in a deep depression.

The thing is, we talked through this time about all of this, I told him things would get better and that he would find a great job. I was supportive on this front because I knew he was having a tough time of it. In the same token, we argued about everything else. I didn't do enough housework, I wasn't raising our son properly. I found with these attacks I just completely withdrew from him and when he saw that, he did the same.

Can this truly be the only reason? It just doesn't jive with me. Am I being too analytical? Any thoughts would be vastly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"In the same token, we argued about everything else."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hematite1975 arguing NEVER solves anything and just puts more emotional distance between two people. Love busters like angry outbursts, selfish demands, and disrespectful judgements only make spouses withdraw.

The reason why people fall into A(affairs) is because they cross boundaries with an emotionally or physically attractive OP(other person) and find themselves on a slippery slope that inevitably leads to an A. Even happily married people, who never contemplated cheating on their spouses, can fall into an A if they cross these boundaries:

1.Confiding intimate and personal information to a member of the opposite sex instead of his/her spouse.
2.Spending more time with a member of the opposite sex than with his/her spouse.
3.Going out to bars with friends or co-workers where other members of the opposite sex are available.
4.Having a close relationship with a friend that is having or has had an A. This so called friend may induce the spouse into having an A of his/her own.
5.Spending nights away from home.

Just because a person is married does not mean that s/he no longer has an attraction to other members of the opposite sex (besides his/her spouse) and if you add the crossing of the above boundaries, is it any wonder that s/he can also fall into an A?

What is so strange is that we had some incredible moments in there too. When I say we always argued, I am not entirely truthful. We argued 5-6x a month (absolutle max) about something silly. Actually, I should say he attacked and I defended. Finally I just had enough and emotionally withdrew. I told him us arguing would solve nothing, that we should both listen to each other and not jump to conclusions... I went through eveything I do with clients trying to ease the tension and get that line of communication back. I can honestly I tried but to no avail.

I don't want to say he made everything seem negative because again we had some great moments in there too.

What do you beleive was the reason he had an A?

Hematite,
It really is important that he answer all your questions about the affair. To do any less is cruel and manipulative. You are a grown woman who can decide what you can and can't take. He is the LAST PERSON in the world to determine what is best for you. *HE* is the one you have to protect yourself *FROM* right now. We don't ask the rapist to recommend the best course of treatment for his victim, do we? [that was an ANALOGY, folks, I am not calling her H a rapist]

The bad thing about withholding facts is that you will not recover until it all comes out. You will both die a death of a thousand cuts if it has to be dragged out a drib and a drab at a time. Every time a new tidbit comes out, you will both be dragged back to DAY 1 in recovery. And beleive me, you will have NO PEACE until your questions are answered truthfully. These are facts about YOUR LIFE to which you have a RIGHT to know.

He needs to answer ALL your questions in one fell swoop and get it over with. In order to help you recover, he needs to be willing to share the secrets with *YOU* instead of the OW. As it is now, the OW knows things that you DON'T KNOW. That has to change or you will NOT recover.

I would also suggest getting the books Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs. You could also start by taking the emotional needs questionaires on this website. Those will be eye openers.

Here is what Harley says about the importance of honesty:

"How the victimized spouse should respond to the revelation of an affair is a subject of a later column. I do not have the space to treat it here. But a spouse is twice victimized when he or she is lied to about an affair. Truth is far easier to handle than lies.” “From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

The Policy of Radical Honesty is one of two rules you must follow to protect your spouse from your self-centered behavior, which includes affairs. The other rule is the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). If you were to be completely honest with you spouse, and you were to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, an affair would be impossible, unless for some reason your spouse wanted you to have one.

If you knew that your affair would be discovered -- that right after having sex with your co-worker, your spouse were to find out about it -- you would probably not go through with it. And if you were honest enough with your spouse so that YOU would be the one to tell him or her what you did, your honesty would be a huge reason to avoid any affair. "

I don't know. There are so many factors in this last year and i will try to list them all plus some important past factors.

Fear? He has been really hurt in the past from other relationships (3 girl's cheated on him- one got pregnant by another man and had CLH think he was the father for almost 4 months after the baby was born and the bond between father & daugther formed, then she left with real father out west) CLH to this day is still not 100% sure he is NOT the father.

I think I am the longest relationship he has ever had going on 7 years now). There was a fear of marriage because both our parents got divorced. This has since changed since he came forward and told me about A. He wants to get married and he is working towards that goal.

He lost a great job in computers and could not find other employment anywhere. He had to settle for general labour which was brutal ego crusher. He is now in a job he can tolerate more and works closely with one of his closest guy friends. However, he was out of work for almost a full year.

He had to rely on me for over a year for financial support. When we first met, I was the one reliant on him for everything. Now, I am in a stable full time job, make a fair amount of money, has benefits etc etc.

All of his friends were getting married, buying homes etc and we were still renting barely scraping by month to month. He is envious of this fact.

We were struggling with parenting while I work shift work. Some days, he would work though the day, I worked evenings and we had no quality time together.

We never had time to go out alone together because I was always working.

The time we did have together we were too tired to do things loving aside from make love.

This girl came along and made him feel wanted. She gave him the sense of power he felt he lacked from me. She had all the time in the world for him, no commitments, no baggage, and she was completely infatuated with him. He was vulnerable and was probably very flattered. The crazy thing is, all the things he liked in her were traits in me. He just didn't seem to see them, I feel like he blamed me for some of his problems. I am sure he used her as a sounding board about the problems in our relationship at times, but he started going to her to talk instead of me. When he was struggling he emailed her as soon as he got home from work.

However throughout it all, he never wanted a relationship with her. He never loved her and recognizes now that he did use her. Eveything he got from her he wanted from me. What I can't understand is why he couldn't come to me. I loved/ love him and I wanted more than anything for him to come to me. I approached him on a few occasions about talking to me but he always said he was fine. I knew he wasn't but I couldn't make him talk.

The only time I saw glimmers of our love was when we made love. He always said he loved me during that time. It was only time we really connected in that timeframe we were struggling. (course we are both Scorpio's...lol)

Any other thoughts? I really appreciate your feedback.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"We never had time to go out alone together because I was always working.

This girl came along and made him feel wanted. She gave him the sense of power he felt he lacked from me. She had all the time in the world for him, no commitments, no baggage, and she was completely infatuated with him."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I made the words bold because they are the key as to why your CLH fell into his A with the OW. Here's what Dr Harley says about giving your spouse undivided attention:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>"The Rule of Time:
Take Time to Give Your Spouse Your Undivided Attention
The Rule of Time unlocks the door to the other three rules. Without time you will not be able to meet each other's emotional needs nor will you be able to avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness. Time is also a basic requirement for honesty. Time for undivided attention is the necessary ingredient for everything that's important in marriage.

And yet, as soon as most couples marry, and especially when children arrive, couples usually replace their time together with activities of lesser importance. You probably did the same thing. You tried to meet each other's needs with time "left over," but sadly, there wasn't much time left over. Your lack of private time together may have become a great cause of unhappiness, and yet you felt incapable of preventing it. You may have also found yourself bottling up your honest expression of feelings because there was just no appropriate time to talk.

Schedule your time to be alone with each other as your highest priority -- that way it will never be replaced by activities of lesser value. Your career, your time with your children, maintenance of your home, and a host of other demands will all compete for your time together. But if you follow the Rule of Time, you will not let anything steal from those precious and crucial hours together.

I suggest that you (a) spend time away from children and friends whenever you give each other your undivided attention; (b) use the time to meet the emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment; and (c) schedule at least fifteen hours together each week. When you were dating, you gave each other this kind of attention and you fell in love. When people have affairs, they also give each other this kind of attention to keep their love for each other alive. Why should courtship and affairs be the only times love is created? Why can't it happen in marriage as well? It can, if you set aside time every week to give each other undivided attention."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you don't make time to be alone with with each other (without friends, kids, relatives, egc.), then your relationship becomes nothing more than roommates.

<small>[ June 14, 2003, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

The Rule of Time is one of The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage that you and your H need to follow if you wish to rebuild your M. I highly recommend that BOTH of you read them and implement them so you can rebuild your M into a happy and solid one.

Thanks, that sure helps shed some light on my situation. What is so sad is the times I did have to connect with him he went off with his friends. That really hurt.

When he and first got together I was working a part-time job and had so much time for him, it is so hard because I work shift work. (2 weeks days, 2 weeks evenings and then 2 weeks of nights) I always work Friday's and work every other Saturday.

What you pointed out to me makes me realize that he and I need to start scheduling for each other. I never understood that concept before but now it makes so much sense.

Our desire to reconnect is there. I looked at the Questionnaire's and I think this something to really sit down and do together. It couldn't hurt.

Thanks again!!

Just wanted to give a quick update on situation. I shared what I learned here with CLH.

I sent him an email of why it was important for me to know some of the details of A and how it would help me & ultimately us move on. (I gave it via email so I would not forget all my questions pertaining to that site page and so he could answer the questions any mode he wanted, email, phone or in person) I also gave him a list of all my questions about what happened those 3.5 months.

He was resistant at first but did eventually answers almost all my questions. A couple he could not remember like specific dates but that is all relative now anyway.

We got a lot out into the open, what we were feeling, the struggles and ultimately that we really wanted to work these things out. We both cried which I firmly believe is healing for anyone. I finally feel like I can start moving forward.

I appreciate the feedback I got in this thread and others. It feels so good to know that I am not alone either in my relationship and in this universal struggle with infidelity.

Thank you so much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 22, 2003, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: Hematite1975 ]</small>