WH texted me today asking if he could send me an e-mail. "Nothing horrible or nasty" he promised. I deleted the message almost straight away. Too busy to deal with this, plus, he's probably still cheating.

Then after hockey practice tonight, my friend (who is the 3rd party I named in the Plan B letter) phoned to say that WH had called her asking how I was. She told him she'd seen me on Saturday (didn't say it was at my B'Day/flat party) and that I was just fine. He did not say that he was out of contact with OW, just that he couldn't talk to me himself at this stage, and that he's really confused. When he started in on how he was feeling, she shut him down, saying she didn't really have anything to say that would help him!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Not too sure what to do. He has backed down from "I won't talk to you via 3rd party", but it is likely that hasn't stopped seeing OW (or OM!). There is no harm in letting it be for now.

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 05:31 AM: Message edited by: ClaireL ]</small>

I am really starting to spin out here.

I managed to find out his username and password for one of the sites. He has been a subscriber since Feb 03. Still don't know what to make of the gay site subscription. It's definitely gay males.

Found several e-mails to her in his e-mail account. The last being 29 April. The ones that were the worst to read were the ones dated 22 Dec, where he is being all lovey dovey, and telling her about how he is going to leave me, how lucky he is to have her as a lover etc.

He WAS e-mailing her and sending photos while away on holiday. The lying scum.

I do feel a bit nuts at the moment.

<small>[ June 20, 2003, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: ClaireL ]</small>

Hi Claire,

I am sorry for the pain and confusion you are going through as you discover all that your H is up to and about. I have been through this myself and perhaps I can offer some insight from someone who has been there.

The addiction of the gay porn website seems especially strong, at least for my WH. He told me after 16 years of marriage that he is bi; I had no idea. We have six children. My health and that of our children (through the birth process) has been at risk all these years. The hardest part was discovering all the on-line activity, the web-sites, the chats, the on-line affairs, the emails, this entire life my H had separate from his life with me and the children.

I won't bother you with the sad details from my own life, but I want you to know I think you should look carefully at your situation. Do you have children? Do you depend on your spouse financially? Because if you don't and can make it on your own, my vote is to get moving on your own. This is a terrible situation where trust can never be restored. It would take a serious commitment to counseling and change of the deepest level if your WH is to become a faithful and loving spouse to you. I am all for marriage, but the bisexual nature, in my experience, seems to be completely incompatible with the hope for a lasting and happy marriage.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Quite some story eh? If it’s of any relief to you, OM in my case has a gay side life - definitely in the past, possibly ongoing, who knows. I was aware of his gay side, and my wife & I joked about it from time to time – and needless to say, I felt relieved & safe to see my wife working with a gay man. (!)

With regard to your case, I have read about men who have secret gay double lives and simply cannot face it or come out. Instead, they tend to live out their other personality elsewhere, be it with affairs, be it through some chance encounters in public toilets (yuck). Your husband might be definitely curious, possibly confused or bisexual. In the setting you / he are in, would it be a great shame for him to own up to it?

Time to call Jerry Springer.

Time to call Jerry Springer.

LOL. Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Claire,

U have already set the stage. Now don't upset the apple cart by giving into your emotions. This is a hard time for you. Venting here, keeping a journal, talking with your 3rd party, your MC...... saving your 'evidence' in a safe spot is what you need to work on instead of communicating with him.

He is showing signs of confusion <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> so he needs to keep moving in that direction but it won't be a straight shot. He went down a crooked road and it will take a while for him to get out. The how and whys of what got him there is just imforational now. Just for now. So dig if you must, know it will be painful for you and don't do anything other than tuck it away in a safe place (some of it you may later need for a lawyer or as you said proof, but not now). It makes you too emotional to handle it logically.

take care,
L.

Counsellor was very helpful. We discussed the impact of the porn site subscriptions. Paying $90 a month for subscription to porn sites is a big commitment to make (WH doesn't even give amount this to charity in a year). So it must be fulfilling some important need, or else he wouldn't do it, right??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

We discussed the possibility that WH is questioning his own sexuality. Counsellor's theory (which is possible) is that WH's not gay, just confused because he left me for OW, then may have found that wasn't what he was looking for. Now wondering if really is attracted to women at all. The only flaw with this idea is that there must surely be places one can view this kind of material on the net without being billed???

Lisa, you are right: the love bank is draining rapidly. I look at the few photos I have left of him, and I just think he is ugly, inside and out. I can't understand why I was attracted to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Let's say that he isn't gay, just a confused boy with a porn problem. Well, I couldn't live with a problem like that. He would have to commit to overcome it before there could be any hope of a future relationship. Even then I'm not sure if I could be comfortable with him again. It creeps me out to think that he has tried to turn me (appearance-wise) into one of his fantasy lust objects, and that maybe that was what he found attractive about me in the first place.

Sound advice, thanks Orchid. Nothing to gain by breaking Plan B. The cracks are starting to show: he phoned my 3rd party person last night, having said a fortnight ago that he refused to communicate via 3rd party. I am building up a dossier of evidence, and will just keep adding to it. Apparently the credit card bill could prove useful in DV negotiations as it gives an indication of his character.

Another thing that the counsellor pointed out, even though this is an unpleasant discovery, better to have found it out now, at 29 with no kids, than at 36 with kids. Better for this porn problem (if that's what it is) to be confronted and treated now while still relatively benign than later on when it has turned into something much more yucky.

<small>[ June 18, 2003, 04:20 AM: Message edited by: ClaireL ]</small>

Claire,

U R keeping your sense and wits about you, which is good. Keep working with your IC/MC, vent and post here as needed. All the stuff I said before. It may seem like forever, but it is not. The journaling will help you see how you have progressed.

U R doing quite well and I am proud you are able to see clearly despite the fog. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

take care,
L.

<small>[ June 18, 2003, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Today (Thurs) I replied to the text WH sent about wanting to e-mail me a letter.

Me:
In reply to your message from Tues, unless you have finished your relationship with christina and have ceased all involvement with her, please do not send me any messages, texts or e-mails.

WH:
And if I do stop talking with her, what then? will you still hate and ignore me?

Me:
I do not have any hatred in my life. I already said I was willing to communicate with you once you have ended your affair with her. Until then, no messages please.

Nothing more received or sent.

Why does he have to keep trying to bait me????? What is he trying to prove? He's already told me through his actions that he would prefer to have some kind of relationship with her over any contact with me. Why keep on contacting me in this manner, and then mis-stating the facts (eg, YOU broke contact, you hate me...) I have NEVER told him I hated him. I have NEVER told him I don't like him. It is getting to the point where I don't have any love left unfortunately. And if he keeps this up, I fear I will tell him that I don't have any love left.

It's bad enough that he thought a future with her (lying, cheating, saleswoman) was worth moving out of our house/marriage for. Never mind about all of the other weird stuff that has come up. Why does he have to keep contacting me just to keep throwing in my face the fact that he is still involved with her? Is he trying to get me to tell him to F*** Off and Go Away, so that he can rest his weary guilt ridden conscience?

Enough is enough. If he hasn't got the message by now that he must not contact me until he has gotten rid of OW, then he must be really fogged in, or really stupid. (Well, he thinks Miss PC is worth ruining his marriage and reputation for so that says it all. )

By replying to these stupid text messages am I playing along with him? And therefore violating the Plan B?

He should know by now that he cannot contact me. Right? How much more blunt can I make it???!!

Claire:

The way I understand it is that they speak another language than we do. They are in another world. Abducted by Aliens! We cannot comprehend their foggy way of thinking. What it boils down to, though, is that they want to have their cake and eat it too and find it hard to give up on trying. My WS also wants to portray me as being antagonistic and hating him when I have never shown that tendency. It's some kind of ALIEN script. It's unbelievable how consistent and predictable these WSes can be. I think its part of their rationalization process; if my BS is bad in any way, then my behavior is justified. There is a desire to provoke us into anger. It doesn't work when we have our PLAN in place.

<small>[ June 19, 2003, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Claire,

When I got those type of 'messages' I used to reply and try to reason with him or even have a logical conversation....instead I got sucked into that vaccuum of stupidity.....made their A happier for them and made me miserable.

So when he baited me with those questions I began to reply 'well if that's what you want' or 'u want me to hate you, ok if that's what you want.' I want you to be happy, that will make you happy? I don't understand your logic, please explain.

It was hard but I just was NOT going to take it any longer.

L.

<small>[ June 19, 2003, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid, I know that my replying to his message made him happier, and now I am kicking myself.

Well, due to the guilt factor, WH has left me with internet access (my postings here are sponsored by WH!!). So I also have access to his e-mails. After the texts yesterday, he must have had a looooooong phone conversation with her. She wrote him a drippy lovey gushy e-mail about how proud she was that they managed to talk about their feelings without FIGHTING or YELLING!!!!! So they have been LB-ing it seems. But my STUPID participation in his game, telling him I had no hatred must have reassured him, and made him feel less anxious, hence aiding their communication. I am just kicking myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

So, don't play the game. Just ignore all messages. He knows what he must do if he wants me to be in touch.

Claire

I think you are handling yourself so very well. Keep up the good work - we all make slips - should you have responded to the text or not? Well, you did, and you are only human. Don't beat yourself up, just look after yourself as best you possibly can.

Thinking of you.
Lisa

Is it too soon to be thinking of divorcing?

How long do I wait for him to come to his senses?
Plan B started about 5 weeks ago.
Since then I have practically emptied my love bank having:
1. realised he is choosing his relationship with OW over any contact with me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
2. discovered what seems like a porn addiction. Poor OW, she probably has no idea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
3. come to view him as sick and quite ugly. When I see photos now all I think is how sick he is, and how ugly he has become on the inside. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Should a miracle occur and WH chooses our marriage, there will be a few conditions:
1. NC with OW + extraordinary measures + POJA + radical honesty.
2. Get help for the porn problem
3. Stop trying to turn me into his fantasy muscle woman
4. Miscellaneous (eg, get rid of all OW paraphenalia, learn how to pick up clothes and put them away ..... )

I am compiling an "X-file" which I will be taking to the lawyer in a fortnight, after my birthday. If WH misses my birthday because he has chose OW over contact with me, I feel that will have to be the point of no return.

I suppose I'm not quite ready to give up on our marriage yet. However, the more I think about it, the more I am beginning to feel that it would be the best thing for me to do. I am 28 (nearly 29). We have no children, no significant assets (the vacuum cleaner doesn't count), and no property.

I have stayed put in this city and this country because HE refused to move. I have already stayed here 2 years too long.

Sound advice from Squeak last week - thank you for urging me to wait and see how I felt after a week. A bit ambivalent still <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> but really see that cutting him loose is the better thing to do.