Hi everyone
It's been months since I've been around but I really need some words of wisdom. I'll try to keep the history as short as possible. D-day was 15 months ago now - H had a 2-3 month affair with a 20 year old co-worker (H and I both 31 at the time). H decided he wanted to "work" on our marriage but continued to see OW at work, sporting events and his heart wasn't really in it. I was 4 months pregnant on D-day and we had the most gorgeous little boy in Aug. Just after his birth H says it's not working and he wants to leave. Nothing happened for a while then I insisted he did leave because he was of no use to me and I didn't need to hear anymore how wonderful OW was and I wasn't. He moved out to be 'by himself' which lasted almost two months then he got back with OW. Meanwhile I was left with a three month old baby and a 2 1/2 year old. H was gone - but not really. He was here almost every day. His R with OW was pretty much still a secret - they never went anywhere - just stayed in his flat but thought what they had was just so perfect. In Feb I decided to implement Plan B and wrote H a letter telling him to choose - OW or me - and if it was OW then he could still see the kids but he wouldn't see me anymore. He chose to be with me and came back home to once again "work" on our marriage. He's been here for 4 months now and we have been making some progress. We are almost through a Retrouvaille program and our communication is so much better already. He never got rid of his flat though and we have had many discussions about his level of committment because to me that shows that he's not really committed. If he were, why would he need to keep it?

Anyway, to get to the point where I need some help - the other day he told me that this just won't work. I was dumbstruck! I asked him how he can say that when it already has started to work - very slowly I'll admit but it has started. He says he just doesn't have intimate feelings for me. I tried to talk to him and explain that they will come once trust is built and communication is better and we are closer. I don't think he believes me. He went off by himself and wrote some 'notes' which I probably wasn't meant to read but did. He talked about a deep despair and resentment he has in relation to our marriage (we've been married 9 years). He looks back and sees that I forced him to marry me and it's not what he really wanted. He talked about how he looked to so many people to 'save' him but no-one did so he thought he had to go through with it. And how he was scared of my reaction if I didn't get my own way - scared of me. He goes on to say that while sex with me is good, the thought of touching/kissing me or me touching/kissing him makes him almost physically sick. And finally that he knows that love is a decision but he's not sure he wants to make that decision anymore - after all, look where it has got him so far.

He is in IC at the moment and I feel he is depressed but he won't go and get help. He says he is over OW now - after 4 months and not really having NC because they still work together occasionally. He says he can see the A for what it was but that it has also made him see what we had more clearly and it's not good. He is talking about leaving again now and I really don't want that to happen. I love him and I trully believe we can make this work - in time.

So, I guess what I want to know is, is this all just the fog talking? or depression? or maybe it's real? And if it is real, has anyone felt this level of resentment and been able to rebuild their marriage? Funny how we see things so differently - I always thought we had everything, were happy and a pretty good match - as did most people who know us. To find that he has resented me since our engagement 10 years ago is heartbreaking.

Anyway, sorry for the long post and thanks for reading if you made it this far.
HRO

so sorry for your pain! everything i have read tells me that he needs to have n/c with o/w so he can go through withdrawl and the fog. so i would say yes he is in a fog. it is good that he ended the A but he may still have very strong feelings everytime he sees her he must be reminded of the A. i would think that would be very hard and confusing. my H. has had n/c with the o/w now for 26 days. he still very confused it is very very slow to see a change but i have faith and i am working on me. i like the new me. good luck to you and just focus on you and your kids.

heart,

He has given you some excellent information in those notes, but just realize that a detached WS almost always rewrites history to accommodate their new addiction, which is the affair. It is pretty typical for a detached WS to have an aversion to touch when they are in the throes of an addiction to another person.

So, I would say this is mostly fog talk, HOWEVER, I would pay close attention to what he says here because there are several clues to his emotional needs and what he thinks has been lacking. The one that really stands out to me is admiration. I sense that he has felt undermined in your relationship so that is something I would focus on with him.

I don't believe that he has never been in love with you or didn't want to marry you. That is almost classic WS talk designed to justify an affair.

Now that you know what you are probably dealing with, I would suggest pulling out all the stops in a GREAT Plan A. Try to really determine what his needs are, meet them as best you can, and avoid all lovebusters. Start a program of attraction and see how he responds. This is definitely not hopeless so don't give up.

<small>[ June 15, 2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Hey, I am sorry for how hurt you must be. My first thought is, that he may very well have intended for you to read his notes. (unless he is a person who always puts his feelings in writing... and even if so, why would he leave them somewhere you could find them? My own journal is on my computer and password protected. My H left some notes out one time-- uncharacteristic for him to not carry his calender book with him. I think he wanted me to give up.)

My H has not admitted any EA or PA-- but is depressed and probably in MLC. He has rewritten history, and acts like he's in a fog. So, I think I can relate to what you are experiencing in some ways.

My H has told me that our M never worked for him, that he was in denial and lost himself. This is devastating to hear... but it is contradicted in so many ways. Were there issues or things we could have/should have done differently? ABSOLUTELY. But, if it was even half as bad as he paints it now, he would not have stuck around for 20+ years. He would not have done and said loving, committed things as recently as a couple years ago.

When I look back objectively, I see key turning points in our M. Some of them are quite significant. Like when my career took off and he got fired... him with the need to be the man, and be admired. But I don't see the validity of the version he has "rewritten". I believe it is how he feels right now, but I think he is operating under diminshed capacity, due to deep depression and hopelessness. So instead of lashing out, I am trying to be compassionate to his state of mind. He is truly miserable.

Don't give up yet, and don't buy into his version. Don't defend yourself, or try to correct him, as that will force him deeper into his version right now.

Read a lot. all the Harley stuff, plus Divorce Remedy. (check divorcebuster.com) And, take care of yourself, you need to be strong and centered to handle your role in this.

Thank you so much everyone. I guess I wanted to believe it wasn't real and was really hoping for some positive feedback which you all gave.

I also think he expected me to read his notes - he knows me too well and knows I wouldn't be able to resist - but I have not given him any indication that I have read them. I have tried to continue as before and not let the hurtful things he said even enter my mind. I've been trying to Plan A for so long now and I really thought we were making some progress - that is why it is so disheartening to know that he feels this way. I have seen so many indications that what he says is not really true but then sometimes I wonder - and if he believes it then isn't that all that matters - it doesn't really matter what I think.

I don't want to give up but I may have no choice. He is going back to see his IC on Wed and from there will decide what he wants to do - stay or leave. If he leaves me again then I think I really do need to give up. I have been through so much and I just can't set myself up for yet another fall. If he stays that is fine - I am prepared to do whatever this will take but if he really wants to leave I won't even try to stop him this time.

I have been doing nothing but reading for 15 months now. I feel like I should be some kind of expert by now. If only H would read what I read but I guess he doesn't want to know what I know does he?

I tried to talk to H about his depression this morning and suggested that he should look into getting sone help but of course he told me that he is fine - expected. So I did something that mabe is not so good. You have to understand that I am worried about him and I know he has been suicidal. So I phoned his counsellor and asked her to just be aware of my concern and maybe talk to him without letting him know that I contacted her. I can't stand back and do nothing - I would never forgive myself if I did and he did something silly.

Anyway, that's where I'm at. Thank you agan for your feedback.
HRO