Hi Jen, writing a letter to h or any of his bimbo's at this time will push him further away. PLEASE DO NOT. Right now you are going thru a stage which we all are or have gone thru. please go to http://www.restoreministries.net/ and read the testomonies of the marriages that God has restored. What you are feeling is a naturial feeling. It is also satan talking to you. Right now satan has ahold of your H (my wife also) The battle we fight has to be done in the spirit not in the flesh. I know that it is very hard as I feel the same as you sometimes. Please read the above web site and see how thier marriage was restored Thanks Smiaj

Morning Jen,

No better words have been written to describe your frustration and need to see something happening. I could have written those words myself not long ago. I know exactly how you feel. I'm a fixer and I tried to fix my M for over a year. Actually, I really believed I was turning everything over to God and let God be God. But I really wasn't. I thought that God needed my help to fix it, that it couldn't be done without my participation.

What I found out was that God did want my participation. He wanted me to "Pray without ceasing" and to learn about His heart. The process of doing that helped make me the better person my W wanted to turn back to. So my prayers were aggressive. I prayed that God would "destroy their relationship". Which is quite in God's will. I prayed that OM would say and do things that my W would find repulsive. You know what happened? Both of those things. He started talking about how great it would be to go to the playboy mansion and see all the playmates. She heard him brag about being able to look down the oversized shirts of the women he played raquetball with and could see their breasts. Jen, God answers prayer. And he's more inclined to answer them for us when we are truely seeking His heart.

My point is that I know you feel like you aren't doing anything or that it feels foolish, but girl you will be doing the most powerful thing you can by seeking God and praying. I know this sounds like it really isn't anything, but that's only because you really you don't know your Daddy (Abba, Father, God). "He uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise."

You've been doing a good job Jen!

Bless you.

S&C

Jen,

I am not sure if you mentioned your summer plans previously, but I REALLY REALLY think the best thing you can do at this point is make arrangements for a nice long vacation if possible. Right now you are just spinning your wheels and it is all wasted energy. Your H is not in the right frame of mind to be rational or to really make any decisions, and I think the more contact you make with him, the longer it will take for things in his mind to settle down. DISENGAGE. Believe me, I know how difficult this is... but in the long run it will only help resolve matters, one way or the other.

The only way to break the cycle is to get out of it - at least temporarily.

Smiaj, I've read how marriages have been restored, on that site and MB. It's one of the few things that helps me maintain my optimism.

Hmmm...so maybe I will start making a list of things to pray for, so I can be precise and agressive in my requests, and therefore perhaps see more results. Thanks for the suggestion steadfast.

justexhausted, last summer when I realized my H was going to shut me out of his life and punish me but good, aka was going to take a long time to get over my infidelity, I did just what you're suggesting, I went on vacation. I went on an awesome trip to Australia with a few friends. My H took that as another blow, that I could have fun on a vacation, when he was in agony. He went on a simple, solo camping vacation. He uses my trip last summer as yet another big piece of evidence proving that I'm basically a very selfish person. (Having affairs is the primary piece of evidence of course.)

So this summer, I'm not going on anywhere on vacation, at least not for the first couple of weeks. I am staying put so he can't accuse me of running off and having fun again while he's in agony. I may go away for a weekend here or there later this summer, but no big trips. I hope this will somehow show my H that I want to be with him; it's got to be good that I'm readily available, right?

I don't dare go anywhere for fear I have it thrown in my face. Also, I told him I wasn't going anywhere, so this is also me trying to be true to my word. If I do go anywhere, I'll be phoning him to tell him when and where and with who, and when I'm getting back.

In short, I'm very afraid of my H's possible reaction if I were to go away on vacation, so I'm not going. Second, I have no one to travel with either. Third, I hope that by hanging around it will show my H that he's my priority. (Oops, I think I repeated myself here, sorry.)

Jen

Jen, SMIAJ and Steadfast and Committed gave you very excellent advice.

And I also know you feel the need to do something. It's that "doing" that can get you into more trouble. I agree wholeheartedly with you that the bimbos need to go. But you can't do that, your husband needs to do that. But guess what, they are a 'safe refuge' for him right now and he's not likely to budge on that issue until much later.

But you DO need to do something. You mentioned your journal. How about doing something a little different and maybe a little foreign to you. How about beginning a list (you can add to it as you think of new things) that you want to take to God. Plan one half hour per day where you do nothing but go to God in prayer. You can ask for all sorts of things, including intervention in your husband's friendship with the other women. Jen, they are single, see themselves as his friend, have something invested in that friendship, could care less about MB principles, etc. Don't look for any help from them. Look to God for that help.

Include intercessory prayer for others that you think could use God's help and protection also. Make a list of people you want to intercede with God for. Become a prayer warrior.

If all this seems strange and intimidating, get a book or two on the power of prayer. They will help to give you much insight into HOW to pray.

Try this sort of DOING for a week or two and see how it helps you. "And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for the saints." (Eph.6:18)

And when you just feel stressed, drop us a note. We have not "given up" on you. Now where is Zoey when we could use her?....oh ya, in harms way for all of us. How about putting her and her hubby on the list?

God bless.

Jen,

I haven't replied to your posts earlier, but I have read every one of the posters on this thread!

Girl, you are starting to SPIN out of control!!! Take it easy.

I recognize that "frame of mind." You know, the one that says, If I'm not doing something, then no one else will know how to act!! I am also a school teacher, and I wonder if that's not part of our "persona" - as a teacher......You know, "I'll do A,B,C and my students will do X,Y,Z....."

You are saying, "But I should be doing something....so H will do something...." Truth is, you can't do ANYTHING!!" No, better, you SHOULDN'T be doing anything at this point.

Interestingly, at this precise moment, I am listening to Joyce Meyer, and she is saying "Fear is the overwhelming emotion satan uses to defeat us. It's satan's perverted type of faith. When we fear, we're putting faith in what satan is saying to us, instead of putting faith in what God is saying to us."

I hear the fear in your posts! Back away from the fear. It is not from God. You need to feel God's Peace.

I know you said your H said you taking a vacation was proof that you are a self-centered person, yadda, yadda, yadda. That was his hurt, emotional self talking. Of course he was lashing out at you......he was extremely hurt!

I concur with others here who say you should take some time away over your summer vacation. GO away! Go somewhere that H won't know where you are. DON'T go see someone....just check in to a hotel somewhere, alone. Spend about 12 hours a day sitting on the beach, taking in the beauty that is God's creation, and speaking (praying) and listening (reading Bible) to God. At the end of about a week of this, I expect you'll know what God wants you to do......and then you won't be spinning like you are now.

God Bless,

Jen,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He uses my trip last summer as yet another big piece of evidence proving that I'm basically a very selfish person.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Selfish is one of those real funny words that people need to be careful about using. To me selfish means "Don't do what you want to do, do what I want you to do". So I never know how to use that word without sounding selfish myself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope this will somehow show my H that I want to be with him; it's got to be good that I'm readily available, right?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You'll probably will get mixed reviews on this one. I think you will know the right thing to do when the time comes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't dare go anywhere for fear I have it thrown in my face. Also, I told him I wasn't going anywhere, so this is also me trying to be true to my word. If I do go anywhere, I'll be phoning him to tell him when and where and with who, and when I'm getting back.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As you already know doing these things really help the BS feel like their feelings are be taken into consideration and the the WS is providing tangible eveidence that they are faithful. The big thing here is not to do it out of fear, but out of the desire to show your H how important he is and that you want to ease his fears.

Bless you, you're doing great.

S&C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So for now, I am giving him some time and space, no pressure. I don't know how long.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not really understand how you come to the conclusion that this is what he's asking for or even needs at the moment. Again I'll suggest, why not try the "open door" invitation method if you feel so compelled to do something? Let me review( from a long response in another one of your more recent threads) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . 1.Jen draws close to God and goes about making needed changes in herself. 2. Jen reaches out to H every week or so with offers of spending time together. If H accepts, there is opportunity to make baby steps at rebuilding. If H declines, Jen in no way takes it personally and goes about her life with other plans. The important thing here is that you've given H the opportunity to make steps forward and shown him you want to take an active role without putting pressure on him. 3. Jen realizes this is about all she can do and lets the Lord do the rest and most importantly, knowing so, seeks to know Him more.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But again, being desperate like that a) isn't attractive, b) makes it too easy for him, c) is like being a pushover, d) might annoy him....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've repeated this notion a number of different times in your threads. The concept of not appearing needy, clingy and desperate is advise that applies to BS in the circumstance of having a WS that is running out the door to their OP. BS want to do anything but appear needy and clingy in that situation. IMHO, this does not apply in your circumstance. The initial, major insult to the marriage was the A. If my WS had distanced himself in response to my pain, I would have concluded he was callous and didn't care much to help me heal. Even when I lashed out at him, in anger and in pain, he recognized the need to not go too far away emotionally and physically. He did this to show his willingness to move forward and help me. I think your H needs to see your continued willingness to weather the storm, even when he's most upset. If your tendency is to withdraw everytime he expresses unpleasant feelings, whatever those may be, it will be more difficult for him to come to the conclusion that you are willing to do the work needed to make a new marriage happen. You will do well to stay mindful that just as he will need to "show" you his changes, you need to "show" him yours. His words of wanting recovery are pretty cheap to you right now, and likewise yours may be to him. It might be good to do what you can, to make sure that this marriage does not hinge on what either one of you says or said at any given moment in time but rather on what you both do or don't do.

Praying for you. All the best!

[B]justexhausted, last summer when I realized my H was going to shut me out of his life and punish me but good, aka was going to take a long time to get over my infidelity, I did just what you're suggesting, I went on vacation. My H took that as another blow, that I could have fun on a vacation, when he was in agony. So this summer, I'm not going on anywhere on vacation, at least not for the first couple of weeks. I am staying put so he can't accuse me of running off and having fun again while he's in agony.

OK, fair enough. It would do no good for you to take a trip, anyway, if fear will be your overriding companion. I actually understand very well, b/c most yrs since I've been with XBF I haven't gone away either. He was a workaholic, so if he couldn't make the time - even for an overnight - I stayed home too rather than risk having him be angry at me for "leaving him alone".

I still think that your focus needs to shift though. What plans do you have for the summer? What are your hobbies? Could you take a class or join an outdoors club? For me, exercise has always helped when I am in stressful situations.

Also, do you have a tendency to call H when you are finally feeling a little better/stronger, hoping that the shift in perspective would help the situation? I have done this, and most times it just brings me down again.

I think you need a plan of action overall. Set some personal (easily achieveable) goals as well as goals with H. Counseling or maybe group therapy would be good...

I think what I would NOT do is write H another letter... since you have done that before... but wait until he calls you to reiterate your feelings and intentions. Try to do it when he is sober if possible. Then I would avoid any long conversations with him for awhile, because if you are anything like I am it is all too easy to get sucked right back into the cycle. My shrink says my XBF "hypnotizes" me. Do you think that applies for you?

IMO, this is not simply a matter of overcoming a betrayal, so I think some of the responses you have rec'd lately are a little off-base (but that's just my opinion). This is a case of co-dependency and verbal abuse, and that pattern has been long ingrained. You would not be fearful so often if it wasn't.

I'm not going to bother with a letter. He dropped by today, to tell me again how the whole lawyer letter thing has just left him reeling, and to ask me again why oh why I didn't warn him that it was coming, especially when I had the chance the day before. I told him again that I hadn't seen any changes in him for so long, that I figured divorce was my only option so I got things rolling. He only changed his tune during that same week, so I was very sorry, and I wished like crazy I could go back and not send the letter, or at the very least, be up front about it sooner. An amazing thing, he came over today just to hang out, not for sex. He was content to just spend some time with me. He's making baby steps again, towards me, hooray. But I'm not doing any tapdancing, it's not like we made plans for if or when we'll talk again. I'm leaving that up to him.

So I'm having an okay Canada Day I must say!

Jen:)

Jen, congratulations! You handled that with honesty and openness. You put your fears on the line and told him, maybe in not so many words, that it takes two to have a marriage.

His response is also very good. Go slow. Share with him, when it's appropriate, how much closer you have come to God through this ordeal. Let him know that someone much greater than either of you is "in control" of your life. Let him know that you abhor further sinning against God, and therefore against him. Tell him you hope that the two of you can rededicate your lives and your marriage to God, the great healer and third member of your marriage covenant.

Take it slowly, Jen. Think before speaking, especially if you start to feel the emotions rising that might lead you to say or do something that you might regret later.

Be open to him. Be vulnerable. I'll bet that he will soon begin to do the same with you. It will be "tough" at times. Many tears are possible. But it will really start the healing as the defensive barriers start to come down.

God bless and guide you. Stay in the Word daily.

Indeed FH, "think before I speak" is a line I repeat over and over in my mind, words right now seem to carry so much weight.

Something else I said to my H that I think was really important was that I don't think we can wait until we feel like we trust each other again before we try being a couple again. That's just impossible. You have to spend time together to rebuild the trust. I am very glad I thought to point this out to him. He seriously seems to be waiting for some unseen emotional force to rise up from somewhere inside him and tell him it's okay to trust me, and be with me again.

I actually worry that maybe I was a little too clingy when we saw each other. I am always the one reaching out to him to display affection. Wait, that's how it's been for a long time, even pre-A. If he reached out, it meant he was horny. If I reach out, I just want some affection WITHOUT sex. But of course he's hesitant to reach out and show me affection, I've hurt him so much. (What I wonder is why he was hesitant before my A.)

His continued need for privacy still bothers me. I almost wonder if he is trying to decide if I'm enough for him and he can live without the bimbos or not, since he knows I won't accept them in our lives. Thing is, I even realize I'll likely have to cut off contact with virtually all of my friends to be with him, since he's said as much, so I guess it's about sacrifices for both of us if this marriage is our #1 priority. Thing is, it seems somewhat insane to me to cut off contact with my friends of the same sex; but he'll say it's the same thing as him ending his contact with the bimbos. I don't know how to prove otherwise to him. If I tried to explain what an EA is, he'd get furious and stomp off and shut me out of his life again, I fear. (Sad thing is he will still be working across the hall from one of the bimbos for at least one more year. At least she's the one that I can stand to be around, not the one that let my H live with her.)

Darn it, I know I know, I am focussing too much on him and "them" again. Back to focussing on me. ***Jen shakes the mighty 2x4 at herself in the mirror!*** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jen

Jen,

Wanted to voice my agreement with FH. "You done good girl".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Something else I said to my H that I think was really important was that I don't think we can wait until we feel like we trust each other again before we try being a couple again.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No truer words have ever been uttered. I do believe this is what God calls "FAITH". Is it possible that these words were meant as much for you as they were for your H?

IMHO, I gotta feeling God was sorta saying something like; "Hey Jen, that thing about trust; goes for me and you too you know? Thanks for trusting me."

How did you feel about it? Did you think this was a victory for you as well?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Darn it, I know I know, I am focussing too much on him and "them" again. Back to focussing on me. ***Jen shakes the mighty 2x4 at herself in the mirror!***</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then Jen puts down the mighty 2x4, looks at herself in the mirror, smiles gives herself a big hug {{{Jen}}} and says "good girl". She reaches over to the table, rewards herself with a Godiva Chocolate.

Boy you sure know how to treat yourself well.

Take care little sister (in God). Bless you.

S&C

Okay, Jen, put the 2x4 away (keeping it close by in case it's needed again), put your pretty blond hair up, fill up the tub, add some Mr. Bubble, put on some quiet soothing music ala Tim Janis' "Somewhere Still the Rose", and just soak for a while. Call it a reward for the most positive step you've made in almost a year.

You deserve a break today, girlfriend. Now "go do and do the right thing"...give yourself a treat that's good for you too!

One thing to add Jen, keep reading your Bible and grow closer to God. Find out in Gods word what a Godly Woman is and also the godly role of a wife and God will provide a better marriage than you ever had! Smiaj

WhooHooo!

What positive news! You don't have to tapdance.......YET! Keep up the great work and hopefully we'll all be tapdancing with you.....somewhere down the road.

Recovery starts with baby steps, every positive encounter needs positive reinforcement in order to increase the liklihood it will be repeated. Don't forget to reinforce his good behavior by letting him know that you enjoyed yourself.

Keep those expectations low for a little while and you will prevent disappointment, on the part of both of you. Don't get too far ahead of yourself. Take joy in the small but forward progress, sheesh you've waited a long time for it. There is time for raising the bar. Look at your recovery "requirement" list as a list of long term goals and delight in reaching benchmarks along the way. Patience, Jen, patience.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am always the one reaching out to him to display affection. Wait, that's how it's been for a long time, even pre-A. If he reached out, it meant he was horny. If I reach out, I just want some affection WITHOUT sex. But of course he's hesitant to reach out and show me affection, I've hurt him so much. (What I wonder is why he was hesitant before my A.)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This made me giggle. I always felt this way about my H when I was your age. Some of it he couldn't help, his family is not physically expressive in showing affection, he never learned to do this. I yammered about it throughout the marriage. If and when you have a restored marriage Jen, believe me it is something that can definitely be changed. It is the one thing about the changes in my H that amazes me the most. I used to think I was doomed to having to always initiate affection. I thought I was doomed to never just getting some affection without having to have sex too. Your H is VERY young, he's geared to always be wanting sex. When you're 40 like me you'll be glad that God "blessed" him with a strong drive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> When and if your H decides he needs to pay attention to God's instruction to him as a husband, he will see your need more clearly and realize his responsibility to provide for that need, despite what a conscious effort it may take on his part. God can change him in many ways you might have had serious doubts about.

At our church we are in a study of Ephesians, the epistle with that great command to be "submissive". Our pastor does great down to earth, but biblical teaching on marriage, he's entertaining at it as well. We will be studying in Chapter 5:8-14 this coming Sunday and should make it to the section on marriage in another 2-3 weeks. If you feel the need for sound biblical teaching on what it means to be submissive I guarantee you won't be disappointed. You can log on to the live service any Sunday morning. I'm in Calif so times are Pacific Time, 8 am,9:45am, and 11:30am at www.calvaryccv.org

He came to you on Canada Day, came wanting to meet an EN. The ball is in your court now. Yes, keep in God's Word daily if not more. The closer you draw to your Father the better you'll hear His voice. Blessings to you Jen!

Jen,
I haven't deserted you or anything. I just haven't known what else to say and I am trying to move forward in my life and sometimes reading these boards makes that hard to do, because it reminds me of my own pain. However, I wanted to step in here really quick and remind you that God does not want you to be submissive to a husband who does not put God first. My Bible study leader was great about talking to me about this. I told her I felt I should be submissive to my husband even though he was doing such horrible things. My leader reminded me that God hates sin, and that God does not want you to be submissive to a man who is not treating you the way you should be treated. Your husband is capable of changing, just like anyone, but it doesn't mean he will. You can't submit to someone who has other women in his life, and who is verbally and emotionally abusive. That is NOT God's will. Remember, the verses on submission talk of your husband loving you as Christ loves the church. I am not saying that you should disrespect your husband, but you can't submit to him when he is not there and when he is not putting God first in his life. IMO, you need to submit to God and God alone right now- praying for His will. God hates divorce, but yet He does know it is sometimes inevitable. I am not encouraging you to get a divorce if that is not what you are ready for, I am just encouraging you to really look at what God wants for your life, and realize that sometimes you have to marry a jerk to go on to find true love and appreciate it.
One more thing....I checked out that restoreministries.org and I just could not agree with it all. It kind of scared me, because it gives the impression that if you pray long enough and hard enough and basically get emotionally trampled, that your marriage will be restored. I firmly believe this is incorrect. Not all marriages will be restored, and you can't continue getting emotionally pounded for the sake of another person. Remember, the Bible is all about love. A new command I give you- Love one another as I have loved you. You can love your husband with Christlike concern, but not be married to him. Take care Jen.

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

adgirl48 I don't see any where in the Bible where god puts a condiction on Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church. also I see nowhere about where wives are to submit to their Husbands only if they are being treated with Gods love shown. What I do see is that if your spouse is an unbeliever and you love your wife or submit to your husband you can win them to God with out preaching to them with words. ie they can be won to God by your actions. I suspect that it is because we as Christians haven't followed Gods word in these areas: is why 99% of us with marriage problems have the marriage problems we have. Also I have studied the material on the restore web site. There is a whole lot more then prayer and being treated bad. The question is are they teaching anything that goes against Gods word. I thought they were full of crap also until I tried to prove what they were saying went against the Bible. The more I study the more I see that it falls in line with what the Bible says. If you find something that goes against what the Bible says let them know they want to know about it. I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter if we disagree with it. It matters if it goes against Gods word. That is why I have said in the past that any info. received from anywhere (including what I say) should be filtered thru the Bible to see if it is correct. Smiaj

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SMIAJ:
<strong>adgirl48 I don't see any where in the Bible where god puts a condiction on Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church. also I see nowhere about where wives are to submit to their Husbands only if they are being treated with Gods love shown. What I do see is that if your spouse is an unbeliever and you love your wife or submit to your husband you can win them to God with out preaching to them with words. ie they can be won to God by your actions. I suspect that it is because we as Christians haven't followed Gods word in these areas: is why 99% of us with marriage problems have the marriage problems we have. Also I have studied the material on the restore web site. There is a whole lot more then prayer and being treated bad. The question is are they teaching anything that goes against Gods word. I thought they were full of crap also until I tried to prove what they were saying went against the Bible. The more I study the more I see that it falls in line with what the Bible says. If you find something that goes against what the Bible says let them know they want to know about it. I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter if we disagree with it. It matters if it goes against Gods word. That is why I have said in the past that any info. received from anywhere (including what I say) should be filtered thru the Bible to see if it is correct. Smiaj</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ephesians 5:22 - Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord.
Ephesians 5:24 - As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.
Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Ephesians 5:28 - Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [/B]

God does not want us to be emotionally abused. I think when we talk about marriage, we act like everything possible should be done to save it. Well, God divorced the Israelites because they were worshipping other idols. And I believe that God does not want you in an emotionally damaging relationship. HE asks you to practice self-control. IMO, this includes not getting treated badly continually. God forgives our sins immediately. We as humans take time. And time is ok. But Jen's H has had over a year without making very much progress at all, he heard her having sex with OM and didn't care to stop it, he has 2 OW that he is "friends' with and Jen has apologized over and over. They are both codependent on each other instead of on God, and God wants us to put Him first and foremost. Restore ministries seems to blame the betrayed spouse in some ways. I read several posts on there about people who were trying to do better so their spouses would come back. They need to do better so they can show God's love to one another, and if the spouse comes back that is added bonus. You can't change for another person, you have to change for God and for you and then see if the other person comes around. Restore ministries also talks of how after a spouse remarries they should pray on what to do. This is inaccurate. According to Deuteronomy, once your spouse remarries someone else, it is an abomination to try to go back to your first spouse. You are now joined to that next person. Submitting should be done one to another- it is a mutual process. You cannot submit to someone who is not around and who treats you poorly and who is still stuck in sin of friendship with other women, alcoholism and emotional abuse.
As a Christian, I cringe when I see people who constantly encourage people to stay in unhealthy relationships. I believe God wants us to love one another while having boundaries. Being a Christian does not mean getting walked on. Being a Christian means being free in Christ- so how long is Jen supposed to be punished for a mistake she has already repented of?

adgirl48,
**************************************************
Ephesians 5:22 - Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord.
Ephesians 5:24 - As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.
Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Ephesians 5:28 - Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [/B]
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so where is there any condictions written in these verses??????
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Restore ministries also talks of how after a spouse remarries they should pray on what to do. This is inaccurate. According to Deuteronomy, once your spouse remarries someone else, it is an abomination to try to go back to your first.
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Restore ministries has printed in many of thier materials saying that it is wrong to go back to your 1st spouse due to the few verses in Deuteronomy. Like anything you need to take more than a few sentenaces to really understand what is being said. Like I said earlier if you get thier materisl and find anything that goes against the Bible let them know.

I also haven't seen a marriage that was broken up yet that didn't have problems from both spouses. Not just one side is to blame for the breakup. Smiaj