Thank you all for your help during the last few days. I have been out of town, and thinking about the posts. I asked to hear from women who have been in my position.

Here is where I am now, and I wonder if in doing what I am doing I am allowing the fog, as you all have called it, to move away from me.

I realize that I cherish my family unit and don't want to do anything to change that. I talk with my friend at work, and we continue to lunch, but always in very public places.

One person posting made me look at this friendship -- an emotional affiar I do admit -- and see how it is damaging my marriage. I have spent the weekend thinking about htat and I can not see how.

My husband is happy. We go on family outings, we don't fight or argume anymore than most coupoles, we do things with friends, we go on vacation together, we have a good sex life. It seems that my home life has IMPROVED since this friendship has come into my life.

Is that a common thought, and a fallacy? Please explain and help me understand.

I think about my friend from time to time, sometimes somewhat erotic thoughts, but more about how he understands me and we have a nice connection.

Is that another fallacy?

How do those things, even if they are fallacies, undermine my marriage. Especially if everyone is happy?

Am I still deep in the fog?

HS,

Not deep in the fog but still a ways to go before you are 'out' of the fog and in the clearing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

U R headed in the right direction. As for those 'erotic' thoughts of the OP, well did you ever see the original Star Trek TV episode where the alien could transform into any pleasing figure but her whole purpose was to lure the humans so she could suck the salt out of their bodies? Picture the OP like that.

L.

Headspinng,
It may be "fog" talk but usually that happens once you've come to the point where you have to decide between OM and H. It doesn't seem like you've even really considered ending contact with OM. I have been there, twice and let me tell you that I am truly suffering because of it now. Because of the previous two OM (both were PA but started as intense EA) my feelings for my H are suffering because I have these expectations that my M should make me feel the high that I felt with the A and there is just no way that is possible. It's an unreal expectation and so now I'm left with thinking that my M is unfulfilling to me because of what I had with OM. Does that make sense? It may not seem like anything is wrong with what you're doing since you haven't technically slept with OM, but you are headed in dangerous waters and there is nowhere good that this can lead. My first A was highly Emotional and it was very similar to what you're describing. I felt alive and I felt very happy and things actually improved at home. But, the reason that things are improving at home is because you now have this new person filling some of the needs that you may be lacking at home and that your H should be filling. You have the best of both worlds right now, when one can't make you happy then you just go towards the other one to get what you need. Why wouldn't that make you happy?? But, honestly, even if you did stay in this relationship and it became nothing more than an EA, it won't stay that way forever. Because sooner or later the OM will start to develop feelings for someone else or he'll want more than what he's getting and then you'll start to get pushed in a corner and then you'll have to decide between your family and the OM. And, don't think that it'll be an easy decision and that you'll be able to choose your H easily because it won't be. You've already invested alot of yourself into this relationship with OM (regardless of if you think so or not, you have) and the bad thing is that it's emotions that you've primarily invested in this relationship and you won't be able to cut that out of your life very easily if and when the time comes. With each passing moment that you spend with OM, you are becoming that much more addicted to him. I know, I've been there. Pretty soon you know all about him, all about his family and his friends and you feel like you're a part of his life. So, when you have to say good bye to him, you'll not only be saying good bye to him but you'll also have to say goodbye to all the things that go along with him (his friends, his children, etc). Please, don't brush this off as you thinking that you know what you're doing and that your situation is different than ours because it's not. It's a textbook case of a PA waiting to happen. Walking away now will be painful and you will have to endure some withdrawal but it's a heck of alot less painful now than it will be if this continues. Please believe us....unfortunately we're talking from experience and we know first hand what we're talking about.
Take care..
New*Life

Headspinng listen to what new*life is telling you because it comes from a woman, who like yourself has been where you are right now. The fact that you are having erotic thoughts about him once in awhile will increase as you become more emotionally attached to him. You are walking on a slippery slope that will lead you right down into a full bloom A, and once you are on the bottom, climbing out will be excruciatingly difficult for you, just as it has been for new*life.

<small>[ June 22, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Hi Headspinng,

I understand. Yes you are still in the fog somewhat because those "in your mind lustful
thoughts" are dangerous. When those thoughts
come, do not feed into them, day dreaming about
erotic things with him.

Yes you are in an "emotional dangerous" spot with
OP, and eventually it will effect the marriage.

It may be something to consider, separating
period from the OP. What do you think?

Sent with Love, -Ladysheep

Dear newlife. Your post was excellent and did really make me think. You said exactly what I am feeling. That I do have the best of both worlds. Is that wrong? I would never ever want a divorce from my husband. I do love him. But as you said, my friend fills a spot in my life. I know he would never want a divorce from his wife for the very same reason. I know that I will never have to make a choice, because there is no choice. My family unit comes first. I know you are saying that how can I have a friend if I say my family comes first. BUt I think new life knows what I am thinking.

You have given me real pause. I know my friend makes me happy and if I had to give up his friendship that would be terrible. So I know I am emotionally connected.

What I am doing now is limiting the time I am with him: lunch twice a week, phone calls and computur messages during the day.

Headspinng,
First I just want to say that it's good that you are kind of starting to see that this relationship with OM is affecting your life more than a normal friendship should. Let me just say Headspinng, that I tried to justify my relationship w/ OM in all the same ways that you did (this is when it was only an EA). I would tell myself that we're just friends and a little harmless flirting won't hurt anyone. Heck, I even talked about him to my H so I figured that there was nothing wrong with it and I wasn't hiding anything from my H. The truth is that I was hiding alot from my H. I may not have been hiding OM existance but I was certainly hiding all the feelings that I was developing for OM (I think that initially I was hiding them from myself as well). I also had no intentions whatsoever to end my marriage and neither did OM. But let me say that as you get closer and closer to OM (even if you're just friends now) the more you know him and develop feelings for me, the more it's going to start bothering you to know that he's going home and having sex with his wife, and the more it's going to start making you obsess about making him "yours". Trust me, I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!! You can justify this all you want in your head sweetie, but the truth is that if you HONESTLY want to keep your M and your happy life then you need to end ALL contact with OM now before it's too late. You have no intentions of ending your M now, but it will start becoming more and more of an option as your feelings start getting deeper and deeper. I think the subconsciously you know this, that's why you came here. You're just looking for a way to justify it in your head, but you know it's heading down a dangerous path. Please listen, please end contact because your M will NEVER be the same once you go "past the line".
Take care,
NL

Just one more thought..... you say that you cherish this friendship with OM. SO did I. But, now think about having to give that friendship up forever if you do end up having an A and then decide to work on your M. Because if this leads down the path that we all think it's going to, if you decide to stay with your H, you'll have to give up your friendship forever. You'll never be able to see him again in order to make your M work. I think that after it was all said and done, the thing I missed most was the friendship that I did have with OM. But since I crossed the line, I had to say goodbye to every part of OM and that's pretty hard to do (especially when you're coworkers).

Newlife: Is it possible to not cross the line and still be close friends with man at work, and have a good marriage?

It is so interesting what you wrote. I have also talked about my friend to my husband. I dont tell him the depth of my feelings towards him. But my husband knows him and who he is and that we work together.

I don't understand how having this close friend effects my marriage. Our sex life is good, we talk, we spend time together, go to dinner, all the things that we always did. I don't see how I am hurting my primary unit.

I miss my friend when we are apart, but because I like talking with him. I am not jealous of his wife having sex with him or anything like that.

You are making a dangerous assumption: that you can keep things in the status quo, that they won't change. They will change, and all the momentum is likely to be towards the OM, as the "new" refreshing element in your life. Eventually, your H will begin to suspect something, perhaps even now, and all hell will break loose. The choice to keep your marriage isn't simply yours: it's his, too. He may not wish to stay in a marriage with a full-blown EA going on. By him being in the dark, you are keeping your options open, but limiting his. You are making all the "choices," but a very fundamental choice is being withheld from him. It's not fair.

Headspinng,
NO I don't think it is possible to be just friends with this guy and not cross the line. Why do I say this? Because you have already crossed the line by not being honest with your H about the depth of your feelings and by having "sexual fantasies" with OM in your head. This is not just a friendship relationship. Let me ask you, do you have "sexual fantasies" about your female friends? No, because they're just friends but you view the OM differently.
My H also knew the OM because I would talk about him constantly. I always said that we were just friends but I knew there was more to it then that. As your feelings for the OM become more intense you will find that you won't be happy all the time as you are now. That's because your emotions will take over and you WILL start caring about things that are going on in OM's life (such as him having sex with wife, etc) and that's when the emotional rollercoaster ride begins. You say that you don't care now that he has sex with his wife but this will change, I can guarantee you that. I didn't care initially either but eventually you invest so much emotion that it does start to bother you.
It's affecting your M because this man is coming into your life and taking a part of it that should belong to your H and your H only. It may seem like things are great between you and your H right now but it won't continue on this way. I was just as naive as you were and now I'm in a very bad place. I wish that I could go back and undo what I've done because once you're tasted the forbidden fruit, it is harder to say no the next time.
Take care,
NL

Headspinng, and Yes even NL,

You may find this interesting. Most WS's that come here believe two things: They will never get caught, and that their marriage won't end.

They ALWAYS worry about losing OM/OW, but not their spouse. Yet, when the divorce papers are filed it starts to occur to them what they are about to lose. A lot of history, often a spouse that was willing to forgive and take the pain of rebuilding. But eventually the BS will give up and move on. Often scarred for life, and with their prime memories of someone they loved so deeply being only those of intense pain.

Headspinng, you will get caught or you will confess out of your guilt, once this relationship does go to far, and it will. That is what NL and others are saying, these things never stay balanced.

Next you and NL will have to face not the lose of your OM, but of your H, and yes your family. I know NL doesn't have one, to lose, but she will lose her H pretty soon. It is only a matter of time. She has had two A's, and views her H as "only a friend" . But feels that OM is special because he tells here "she is the best he ever had". She hasn't questioned what that statement means coming from a male, but someday she will. She won't like the answer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Your level of denial for something you know to be wrong is a strong indicator that this affair is going to go to another level pretty soon. You will start to resent your H, because he wants sex with you, he wants your time, when youwant to spend time talking and being with OM. You will start to rewrite history, so that your H is failing at his job of meeting your needs. You will probably say you "never really loved him" You just felt he was a good friend.

It happens here all of the time, and I mean over and over and over again, for years on end, these same statements are made. Not paraphrased but stated exactly word for word.

None of us can conviince you to change only your inner integrety will do that. But, you have already damaged your marriage. You will never be able to look your H in the eyes and tell him you have only loved him since you two were married. Or even that you have remained faithful to your vows. How much more you will lose remains to be seen. But, my guess is that you will indeed give away the whole thing before you wake up.

You will be like NL. Talking about loving her H yet disrespecting him all of the time. It is hard to love someone you don't respect and the only way she can and has justified her actions is to paint her H in a bad light. Since her apparently has endeavored to be a good H, then she is left with the "I don't lust for him" type of comments.

What will be your excuses? What will you claim your H failed you at, to justify giving to your Om what should be shared with your H?

Frankly,I do hope you continue to post, because my bet is that you will continue down the slippery slope. It won't be with any satisfaction that I will be reading about it. Just a profound sense of saddness that your H has lost so much, been deprived of his choices in life, and is married not to the woman he thought, but just a lying decitful human being that he doesn't know.

There are times when this place gets to me, and your post is one of those situations. It seems so sad to see all of this happening yet again with all of the same statements, justifications, lies, etc.

If you ever do want some help with your marriage just ask. As it is there really is little anyone can do to help. Just watch another person do something very dishonest and devastating.

I do hope God Blesses you with some insight as to what you are doing.

JL

Dear Headspinng,

I don't know if this will make a difference, but I am going to give you a spiritual side.

On your wedding day you and your husband were "two" that became "one" in the sight of God, which is a covenant under His blessing. Do you want to throw that away? Do you care what God thinks? Do you care about the vows you made to your husband the day you married in the sight of God, friends, and family.

Here is God's side. You have already committed adultery in your heart with the other man!!

You have heard that it was said to those of old,
"You shall not commit adultery."
But I say to you that whoever looks at woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

This goes for lusting after another man also.

You are in dangerous trouble, and thinking everything is o.k. having lustful thoughts about
OM. I don't think so.
I really hope you take everything you have heard
on this thread very seriously.

You don't even realize what you are doing to your husband already.

Do you have lunch 2 times a week with your husband. Do you send/give him notes daily?
Does he know you have committed adultery in your heart with the OM yet?

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

JL-
I just wanted to respond to what you wrote. I first want you to know that I'm not in any way condoning what Headspinng is doing, I'm trying to show her that what she's feeling isn't "special" that it's heading nowhere good and that she should run while she can. I'm trying to tell her about everything that was going on in my head during my A's and trying to show her that her situation and her friendship w/ OM isn't unique. Also, please don't think that I'm heartless and that I don't care how my H feels. I DO CARE and I will live every day of my life knowing that I've hurt him. I am sad and I do hurt because of the depth of pain I see in his eyes. As far as me saying that "I don't lust for him anymore" I am being truthful and I'm trying to figure out how I can get that back because I sure as hell don't want to leave that out of my M which would leave me very susceptible to having yet another A. I'm trying to do the best that I can for my M.
Also, I don't think the OM is special because he told me that I was "the best he ever had". What I said was that hearing that made me feel good about myself and it brought about all these feelings that I didn't know I was capable of feeling. I know that what he meant by it had nothing to do with love, believe me, I know that. And I also know that each time I slept with him and was looking for love I came away feeling even more lonely and not finding any.
I get the feeling that you're judging me and that you've labeled me a "bad seed" because of my past. I know that I've done bad but I am a good person and I want to find that good person again and be happy in my M. I am sure that every BS out there hates my very being and I don't blame them one bit. I am so sad inside knowing the depth of the pain I've caused to so many people and now I want to do something in my life to stop this sickness. I want to make it up to my H and I want to feel these feelings for him. Is that so bad????
NL

New*life

I admire your courage and repentance in being here. I am a BS, and I don't hate you. I believe most people are good in some way, or at least have the potential to be, but we are ALL capable of bad things. What makes the difference, is what you do afterwards. You have expresed remorse and been honest about your feelings past and present. Thats a help to me as it gives me some sort of insight into my situation. I can understand peoples anger, but directing at you won't help them.

My 2c worth

S.

Salerio,
Thank you for your kind words. It's nice to know that not everyone here hates me. Hope all is well with you..
NL

NL,

I wasn't getting on you for your posts to Headspinng. I hope they are useful to her. You have been very honest about most things but what you are not honest about are hurting you and your H.

I will respond in detail to your post to me on your thread so that we don't hijack headspinng.

I do hope she can see from your posts what is ahead of her if she doesn't change her view of this relationship with OM.

God Bless,

JL

HS -

It's good you have come here for advice before making the biggest mistake of your life, although you have already taken some steps down that dangerous path.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I am doing now is limiting the time I am with him: lunch twice a week, phone calls and computur messages during the day. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's how my wife's multi-year affair started, that's probably how the majority of affairs represented on this site started, and that's where your affair has started. Yes, your affair has started, because you have made an emotional investment with someone other than your husband.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't see how I am hurting my primary unit.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You keep referring to your family as a "unit." Your family is made up of living, breathing people with feelings and hopes and dreams. Just like you. To refer to them as a "primary unit" sounds like you are compartmentalizing them, putting them in a little box over in the corner. My wife is good at doing that also, which is why she was able to sustain her affair for so long. She and the OM (a friend of mine) used to talk about me, also, so that has nothing to do with how far this might go. And as far as hurting your "primary unit" goes, if you continue along the path you have started on, believe me and others, you will see and feel the enormous pain up close and very personal.

HS, please heed the advice of those who have posted to you. Some have been where you are, others of us have been where your husband is. Any way you look at it, it's all very ugly business.

A lot of people have come here just as you have, looking for advice or perhaps affirmation for the situation you are in. Most of them were here for awhile, got some great advice which they really didn't want to hear, and then disappeared, presumably to get on with their affairs.

Please don't become another one of "them." Do what is right and stop this relationship before all the pain comes, which will happen if you take this further.

If you truly love your "primary unit," seek your fulfillment from them, as it should be. Real love is never found in fantasies. Ask anyone who posts here.

Haven't posted here in a long while but this topic sparked an interest. I am a BS who's H had a (just a friend) at work, someone he could talk to, someone who told him things he wanted to hear, etc....this friendship ultimately resulted in a PA that has totally changed my life FOREVER. It has been a year since D-day and still not one day goes by that I am not affected by this. Just like you, my H never thought this would result into a PA but they both crossed over the line.

My H contracted herpes from this OW and brought it home to me. Sometimes I think this was God's way of punishing him but in the long run I have been the one most affected.

Please, please, please end this friendship now!!!!!! This could be the end of your marriage and no telling what else. Neither of you will win, and your spouses will be the one's to suffer and unbelievable hurt that unless you go through it you will never understand!!!

Hi new*life and headspnning,

I am a FBS and I don't hate either one of you. I appreciate your honesty, but I will admit that I wish there was a way to make it mandatory to read the info pages that the Harleys so generously make available on the MB site for FREE.

I appreciate your honesty like I appreciate the honesty of BSs who are falling short in dealing with these issues. Believe me, I have gotten the *bucket of cold water* more than once. Whether a WS or a BS, some of us need that. Whether a WS or BS, some of us are serious about seeking recovery (whatever that takes), some of us aren't, some of us are somewhere in between, and some of us (like me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) have experienced times of all these scenarios.

n*l--I think the same *bucket of cold water* that I was given before might apply in your sitch too. Consider yourself forewarned cuz here goes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I hit a point where I didn't *lust* for my FWH. Then **splash!!** I was told--So, what's your point?? It's half your fault too--are you going to whine, blame, make excuses or are you going to do your part of what it takes to build romantic love??

Doesn't matter whether WS or BS, if we are honest we can learn to have wonderful passionate marriages without looking farther than our very own spouses <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />