I haven't posted much-doing a lot of reading here. Could really use some help!
Quick bkgd-D'day1-23-03 (although WS still claiming just "friends"), 3 D's-19, 18, 12. I have been in Plan B almost since D'day-gave him an offer to stop contact with OP or leave-of course he left. Over the last several months he has been staying at her house or her at his (she is separated). Lately he has been more open with taking her to his softball games and out to eat with his sister. Luckily he hasn't introduced her to my D's-the youngest does know who she is and has been at the games too when OP and her D are there. Last night my D informed me WS and OP going on a vacation together. This to me was more than I could take. I called WS to let him know how immoral I felt this was and that if he wants to pursue this realtionship he needs to put an end to ours. Of course the whole basis for his R w/OP is my fault-I took all his friends away so he's forced to spend all his time with her, I pushed him to it, he felt unwantd at home, I was disrespectful 1 time, etc. He also feels I am blaming OP when she has nothing to do with our situation.
Please help-Am I really this bad of a person, is this major fog in trying to justify?
I went into Plan B to try to save any love I had for him but after last night, I feel I may be ready to move on. I have been trying to hold on for the D's sake-when I tell WH that they need a family, he tells me they have one! He doesn't seem to understand why they are so hurt.The oldest will not even talk with him-of course, my fault since he says he can't "defend" himself.
I was feeling ok about myself, now again I feel so worthless and undeserving of love. I feel that I must be getting what I deserve. He told me he he's finished because he's been trying to save this marriage for 20 years (that's how long we've been married!) by himself without even telling me how he was feeling.

Help22

I know how your feeling. My wife left 3 months ago after confessing her affair.

She still won't talk to me about what happened to us or was her reason or feelings regarding the affair. In fact she recently was dumped my her married affair partner and since then (3 weeks) has told me she needs space, its over, and will not call me for awhile.

After all that happened I felt like I took a step back in my recovery. I'm now taking Meds and seeing a counsler. I hope the Meds start working in a couple of weeks as they should.

I plan "A" ed from day one and I'm now in limbo.
I don't know if your husband is in the fog as they call it. I thought my wife was as she is acting totaly differant than the person I married. But at times she seems very specific with her actions. Confess, move out, get him to move closer and maybe move into gether.

I feel in many ways so disconected with her and I'm beginning to feel angry that she still doesn't seem to care what I'm going through.

It's like I've been run over and she's still driving down the road.

Your husbands comments to you are certainly his justification about what he's doing and that he's right and your family and friends are wrong in not understanding him. My wife will not talk to anyone who may raise a question about what she did and is doing.

When you see him again try and Plan A as best you can. The plans for your self respect and is an attempt to break up the affair. If he see's your Plan A and that your getting stronger not chasing as much and slowly moving on then maybe he will relize that your marriage can be saved and that his window to fix things will not be open forever.

I don't know what the others think on this board but it's been six months why not go out on a few dates yourself. Nothing serious. Ask your daughters what they think.

In the end we all have to do what's best for ourselves. These are just my thoughts.

Sounds like fog to me...

You went straight to Plan B without him knowing what you were willing to do to save the M, what changes you could make. Any way to show him now? Do a modified Plan A while he's gone? THen when he begins to see the other side, what things could be like, then Plan B?

You are not awful, this is a selfish act on his part. He is in Fantasyland about waht life will be like. It's after 6 months when you begin to get real with a person that he will see the OW for what she is, and vice versa.

Thanks for your responses-I guess I just wanted to hear from others who are going/have gone through the same thing. It seems like just when I get some self esteem back, he throws it all away. I am having a hard time coming up with a good plan A because he's not specific about what he feels our problems were. He says he felt unwanted but won't explain why. With 3 D's as busy as they are, I know I didn't put as much time into my marriage but how can I do that now when he's not there?
I knew he's just trying to justify his actions but his words are so hurtful.That is why I am trying to do the Plan B. I have been exercising more, spending more time with friends and keeping busy with my beautiful D's. I try not to concern myself with him and his OP. However, going on this vacation with her was more than I could handle. He says he needs to be able to go on a vacation-what about his D's? Do they get a vacation? This selfishness is sometimes unbelievable.
I just don't know if it's worth holding on to-he says he's finished and has tried-by staying married for 20 years. He won't go to a counselor, doesn't think that I can change and even if I do, it's only because I had to and he just can't accept that.

As the Betrayed Spouse don't think it's your fault he had an affair. It was his decission and mistake. YOu didn't make him go.

Of course you can change. People change all the time. His problem is your willing to solve his problems (needs) in the relationship or at least try. He can't justify his actions if you keep solving the problems he keeps tossing at you.

Maybe you should decide what needs or changes he needs to make to come back home to you? If he can't or won't make changes then will you ever be happy with him again?

Work that Plan A - it's all about you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by help22:
<strong> He says he felt unwanted but won't explain why.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounds like he has a need for admiration and appreciation. Very common for men to need this. Could this be possible?

Don't worry about what he says....they all say a variation of the same things in the fog. It's how they can justify what they have done.
If at all possible, please stop LB'ing. All you are doing is driving them closer. He talks to you, you LB all over the place about his behavior, he tells her.....she tells him it's all YOUR fault!! And they go on together in their little fantasy bubble.

In order to break this cycle they are in, you have to appear to be the better option. Eventually, there will come a time when he will look for any alternative. It may take some time, but it happens 97% of the time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Please keep reading (Read all the Concepts from this site), and keep asking. We are all in this together.......and we care.

God bless,

Just so you understand what self esteem means.... You said;

"It seems like just when I get some self esteem back, he throws it all away."

ONLY YOU can throw your self esteem away. HE can NOT.

Self esteem is the high regard you hold for yourself. It belongs to you.

Don't "borrow" self esteem from anyone. When you do, you become co-dependent on pleasing that person so you can maintain your own self worth.

Are you a valuable person in your own eyes?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I am exactly in the same mess. My husband cheated on me the 1st 5 years we were married and then I had an A almost 2 years ago. Then last year in June he started seeing a his gf that he is living with and he keeps on throwing the blame at me for his gf. I get my self esteem up and then he puts it way down again. I will never get over the guilt of ruining our family.

Dear Help,

Welcome to MB. Please read the book his needs/her needs..... you need to know when things are truly your fault vs fogtalk and either throw the fog talk away or give it back to him.

When he blames you for stupid stuff, ask him if he would buy that kind of jargon if the tables were turned. Now if he is stupid enough to say yes, then tell him you will learn how to talk stupid like he is but it will take great effort to sound as stupid as the WS and OW. If he says no, then tell him neither do you.

You are not the excuse for him having an A. That is hogwash.

Many of us were told that same stupid stuff. The retort I gave you above is how I handled it.

Read up, post/vent and take care,
L.

I think I will be moving over to the Divorce forum-my WS has agreed to go to a Mediator. At this point he's ready to give me what I want-to stay in our house until youngest D graduates and to continue the amount of CS he is know paying? I assume this is his guilt and I want to get it in writing before he changes his mind.
Right from the start of his A he has giving me no hope of his return. He says everything he can to justify it. I have been working on myself and feeling a lot better-my friends and family have been great. I have also been able to lean on my faith and have reaffirmed my committment to Christ.
I have been praying for a sign to help me decide to try to hold on or let go. When I found out my WS was taking a vacation with OP I felt it meant it's time for me to let go. My WS sees nothing wrong with this! He even blames his friends for "deserting" him and so he HAS to spend time with OP. It doesn't matter that his kids won't get a vacation just that if he doesn't go, he won't get one!
I do feel that this R w/OP isn't going to last (OP is still married but has had 5-6 A's to date-of course my WS claims it's not true and her H is a Pyscho!). He is so lost in the fog and I don't see him coming out for some time. It's time for me to move on! I plan to enjoy my kids, especially my D's last year of High School, exercise and have fun with my friends!!
It's a great day!!