Hello,

I have got a problem I need to solve or maybe get some ideas from you guys.

I am in plan B for more than 2 months now. WW is not trying much to contact me with rare occasions when our D is the topic. We have been talking on the phone maybe 4 times since April 14. She still speaks Fogese with no accent. ;-)
Now, we don't have a formal separation agreement, without which I can't buy her out (the bank needs to know the exact amount I need and if there are child support payments etc..). She also needs either the money (which she favors) or the house by the end of her lease in August. I have no problems with either, and maintain a pretty flexible approach. She is still running and splitting assets is the next "logical" step.

So here is the problem I need some help solving:

Plan B is supposed to be air tight, but all this talk about splitting assets somehow undermines the plan. She insists that we do it without any help from the lawyers. We don't have a "middleman" unfortunately. I don't want to talk to her until she ends the affair.

On the other hand I don't want to stop her from running. She thinks that the only way she can achieve eternal happiness with OM is to buy a house together, detach as much as possible from Osama bin Dracula (me), and so on. I am inclined to help her in reaching the bottom as much as I can and ASAP. Naturally, I would like to have the assets split and take the title of the house. This way, I remove myself completely from the triangle.

The way things are now, we both have access to our joint accounts, but I am paying the bills (with her and my money). The latest blame campaign is that I spend more than her. I would really like to stop this. I know that plan B does not allow any help from BS, but the bills are mostly associated with the house that I am supposed to get anyway.

Just to add to the mix, I must say that WW is not very eager to split the assets as she initially clamed. It looks like all she wanted to do is get me on the phone, tell me how inconsiderate I am for spending her money, get a new fix from the blaming drug and back off. I sent her 3 e-mails with the proposal to hire a mediator and didn't get a reply from her. I am an e-mail admin and sent all messages with a delivery receipt, so I know she got them. I even went as far as drafting a separation agreement on my own last week-end. Sent it to her for review and she replied that she cannot open the attachment.

Just to sum it up:

1. It is time for a separation agreement. Both of us "want" to do it.
2. Plan B asks for no contact which is hard to do when we have to negotiate something.
3. WW is not very cooperative in reaching the agreement. Looks like all she wants is renewing the contact between us.

This looks a lot like a game to me. WW is testing the waters to see if I am still waiting for her to comeback. If I don't put any effort to get the separation agreement, she gets reassured that I will take her back. She continues with the affair, knowing that the safety net is there to catch her. If I do, we have to talk and she gets her "fix" by blaming me for, let's say, the fact that the couch is dirty, the vacuum cleaner is broken and I ruined her life, etc...

I am inclined to call a mediator so we don't have to talk to each other. It will eliminate the contact and won't give her any reassurance that I will take her back.

Any thoughts?

Thank you guys,

BigStar

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: BigStar ]</small>

Big Star,

I'd get a mediator....really. It WILL undermine your Plan B to negotiate right now. As far as splitting the assets....I'd delay that process as much as possible without appearing to delay it. While it may show her that you are serious about letting her go, it also facilitates her life with the OM.

Hi BigStar,

You know what – you made me laugh. Particularly priceless I found your statements
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
She still speaks Fogese with no accent. ;-)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
she can achieve eternal happiness with OM is to buy a house together, detach as much as possible from Osama bin Dracula (me)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
and she gets her "fix" by blaming me for, let's say, the fact that the couch is dirty, the vacuum cleaner is broken and I ruined her life, etc...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... Priceless!

On a more serious note, I think you’re spot on suspecting that she simply wants to maintain the status quo – hey, why does she want to change it?? She has the house, she has OM, only too bad that you are not around anymore to chistit batinki so to speak.
In general, I would agree with you that IT IS NOW TIME TO SPLIT THE ASSETS. For several reasons – 1) it’s part of the discovering reality process for her, 2) it helps you to set you free and 3) to protect your and your daughter’s interests.

So, we agree on what to do. Question now: HOW to do it?

Step one is to separate bank accounts. This, you should have done a long time ago already. Your salary goes on your account, hers on hers. Of course, as it is a joint account you remain liable for her debts, so I would ask her to close it and open a new one. Don’t talk to her, simply write a letter. In the same letter I also would suggest a financial settlement re. ongoing expenses (not the asset split). For instance, if your daughter lives 50:50 at your/her place, and you both earn more or less the same, then I don’t think you have to pay her Child Support. In any case, go and talk to a lawyer, and suggest a ongling expenses split which is fair. You know, she doesn’t necessarily have to agree to it – just open your bank account, transfer her money (if at all) on a regular basis, that’s it. That way you rob her of her weekly blame fix! (hey man, you don’t know how familiar that sounds…. &#61514; ) Oh yea, and re. paying the bills, you know what? Let her pay them. Cancel the direct debits. Call the utilities and tell them to address any mail to her. All part & parcel of the ‘discovering reality’ process. If she needs help, surely her knight in shining armour will be there to help her.
The asset split is more tricky. Does Canadian law know a ‘legal separation’? If it works like in the UK, then you could do a ‘deed of separation’. In this, both parties agree on a split, you cant force anything. The only way how you can enforce a timetable, or a certain split, is through a divorce.

As she lives in the house you may not be able to drive the see selling process. I think she HAS to agree to it (unless forced by a divorce). So I think if she wants to stall and play with you, she can.

Bottom line – I’d do it like this 1) get some legal advice what a ‘fair’ split would look like 2) send her a letter, proposing how to split expenses/ongoing payments and assets, 3) if she starts haggling/arguing then get a mediator involved (you can initiate that already now) 4) if that doesn’t work, ratchet it up to the lawyers, 5) if that doesn’t work, start divorce proceedings.

One question – how long are you prepared to wait for her...? When would you call for a divorce yourself? Are you willing to go on for what, another 6 months? 12 months? I’m asking as I have the same Q myself.

Take care
N

<small>[ June 26, 2003, 04:00 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

thanks for the input star*fish,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> While it may show her that you are serious about letting her go, it also facilitates her life with the OM. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never looked at it from this perspective. I have trouble see how OM will benefit from that. Isn't he put under more pressure by it? Isn't he taking more responsibility? Clearly, the responsibility he doesn't want.
If we separate legaly and we have nothing more in common beside our D, goodbye limbo land, goodbye fantasy. Here is the REALITY, deal with it.
Won't he be forced to play husband, not lover?
There will be no more backup plan for him either. You have a FAMILY on your hands. This is something he is not prepared for. I could be wrong. He repeatedly stated before that he wants to mary WW and he loves D and so on... Talk is cheap, though.

Just as a side note, yesterday my WW tried to introduce D to OM, and he couldn't do it. He didn't have the guts. It was in front of a big crowd of coworkers at a voleyball turnament. Everybody was watching... and he backed off. Tells you how commited he is, doesn't it?

Nick, thanks for your reply

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Step one is to separate bank accounts. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Working on it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Does Canadian law know a ‘legal separation’? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, the law accepts a legal separation signed by both spouses and a lawyer.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As she lives in the house you may not be able to drive the see selling process. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WW doesn't live in the house, and she agreed to split the assets some time ago. The problem is that now, she is not very keen on that.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> if she starts haggling/arguing then get a mediator involved (you can initiate that already now) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I already called a mediator and will get the application papers by tomorrow.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One question – how long are you prepared to wait for her...? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How long am I prepared to wait? Good question... It's going to be a year in February since she moved out. Canadian law requires a year of separation before the divorce. However, if adultery is involved (and I can prove it) there is no time limit.
She told me that she wants a divorce, but cannot file until a year of separation had passed. I guess she doesn't want to admit that she commited adultery, so she sticks to the "one year" requirement.
Will see what happens by February.

In any case I can file today if I want, but like Mortarman said, this is a nuclear weapon that must be used with extreme caution.

You're free to comment. It's an important decision and I would like some more opinions. I don't want to make any mistakes at this stage.

Thanks again and God bless,

BigStar

Big,

I guess I was speaking strictly from a financial standpoint....but I think you are right, even if this causes the finanacial problems to ease...the emotional problems will just be beginning....I like your logic, and think you are dead on.

BigStar,

Sounds like you’ve set the right things in motion. Again, I’d close the joint account asap, the earlier the better, and ditto for your joint assets. That way, she gets a full taste of what life might & will be like.

I think the year of separation in next February gives you a time horizon to focus on. What will you do if she doesn’t file then – will you? You don’t have to know this now, but if she keeps stalling you will have to ask yourself this question sooner or later. (And so do I, buy the way). Do you care about having as an official divorce reason ‘adultery’ rather than ‘separation’? That too might influence how you play it. I think the bottom line is, how long you are prepared to wait for it, whether you feel like it’s time to start dating again and whether you think she will see herself as your wife again at some point.

As I wrote earlier, the fact that the guy doesn’t want to see your daughter is just so pathetic. What a moron. I can’t believe that your wife buys this cr@p, I mean, she’s the mother of your daughter! (But then again, thinking about how my WW’s OM will touch my sweetheart with his slimy greasy fingers, I’d be glad if he doesn’t meet her at all)

One question – did you notice any change in your wife’s behaviour since you separated? If so, when and what? I’m just asking as we’re now separated for 3 weeks, haven’t seen each other or spoken to, only contact was maybe 3-4 one-line emails about bills to be paid etc. I’m in contact with the au-pair (her niece) who lives with us, apparently everything is cool & normal at home – can’t say that our separation has any effect at all on her. Which is fine of course, as it’s meant to help ME which it does, as it definitely took me out of the firing line, and am not put under permanent emotional stress. Having said that, there isn’t a day in the week, an hour in the day where my thoughts don’t wander to our situation…… Sounds familiar?

Nick

PS – what happened with your plans for a European biking tour then?

Hello,

To answer your questions I am prepared to file for divorce before WW. This is a weapon, remember. I will use it, when nothing else is available. If I knew that it would clear the fog, I'd use it today, but I don't and won't risk it.

I sure hope that WW will see herself as my wife again. That's why I am here.

Regarding dating. If you read my posts from April you'll find that I had a "lady friend" that quickly became more like a "special friend". We all know what that turns into, don't we? I had to cut all communication with her to avoid having an affair of my own. She pursued me for a while, but I tried to be very honest with her and she agreed that it was a bad idea. We had one encounter with each other later and she thanked me. The decision to end this relationship was very tough, but I am very glad I made it.

Don't get me wrong, I (and everyone on this board) need a LOT of TLC. We would give ourselves blind to anyone who can meet a small portion of our EN, but being so vulnerable it's easy make a big mistake. I gave myself a year after the divorce before I start dating. I need to be balanced emotionally when I meet that special someone. I don't want any leftover stress when I start dating.

In regards to WW behavior. I didn't notice any change. She still puts up a good show. Although she looks very tired and those bags under the eyes are not going anywhere. Mind you, I don't see her very often. Her boss, our friend, sees her every day. He is a very taktfull man with very high moral values and wouldn't say anything bad about WW. From him I could gather that she is suffering immensely, but acts like a happy go lucky honeymooner. I wonder how long it will last.

Yes Nick, I think about it ALL the time, day and night. There is nothing more important in my life right now. I seek refuge everywhere, but there is no substitution for her being with me, her smells, her laughter... I miss my wife, I don't miss the monster. Sounds familiar?

My biking trip will have to be postponed until at least next year. All the events in our lives made a huge impact on our D. She doesn't want any major changes at this time. Biking in Europe may not be a bad thing, but she asked me not to leave her alone. She is terrified of meeting OM and needs all help she can get when faced with this monster. We are each other support in this whole ordeal so she asked me not to leave her. I could take her with me, but my finances are a little humble right now to say the least. We decided to tour Southern Ontario instead.

Cheers,

BigStar

Makes all perfect sense - some of the stuff you've said is interesting and is great input for my situation too. You know, I've met someone lately, her marriage is in deep trouble, but I hit the brakes immediately when I learnt this (she introduced herself as being 'single'). I mean, the thing I dont need at the moment is to be an OM, WS and a BS all at the same time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ! red flags all over. Anyway, that's over now, before it ever begun.

Similarly to your situation, I dont think my WW is happy at all - to the contrary. But I still feel that she continues to blame me for all. Also, I know she is increadibly hard headed and stubborn and isnt the person to make grand and forgiving gestures from the bottom of her heart.... I know, she'd rather grit her teeth and tough it out. Even if that means gritting her teeth forever. Now, it will take a real miracle for her to come around. that was one of the reasons why I maybe dragged out plan B so long, maybe too long.

I think it's great of you to put your daughter's needs first! Southern Ontario should be pretty nice (never been there), in any case dont spend too much so you can blow the lot next year in Europe.

Take care
N

LOL,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know she is incredibly hard headed and stubborn and isn't the person to make grand and forgiving gestures from the bottom of her heart.... I know, she'd rather grit her teeth and tough it out. Even if that means gritting her teeth forever. It will take a real miracle for her to come around. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nick, you're probably talking about my WW's twin sister. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And all the other WS here. It doesn't take miracles, it takes time.

We maybe just bracing each other by saying that, but I get it from the other threads as well.

Our WWs are in for the ride of their lives. They may think that they can make it, but at what price? Once the two love birds run out of that heart pumping feeling that drives them to be the people they are, where will they get the energy to continue? Sugar? Sweet'n Low? No, it's hard work to keep the OM happy.

All responsibility for their relationship is on WW. OM can any day change from "I love you." to "You used me." and there will be very little WW can do. Unless WW gives herself unconditionally to OM, does his laundry, cooks his meals, takes care of ALL his needs, "becomes his mama" (I've read it here somewhere), he has very little to stick around for. After all, he is the one who saved her from the evil husband she's been suffering from for so long. He practically saved her life.

OM has to put up with a lot of pressure. Guilt, insecurity (he has to live with an unfaitful person), the fact that he has not become a "husband" by choice but rather because of the circumstances SHE put him in, all this has to be outweighed by WW's efforts. She has to reassure him DAILY that he is in for a good time. Do you think that's easy? Do you think you can grit your teeth and do it all your life? I must be a psychopath my wife portraid me, because I am laughing right now.

I often think that my posts are too "logical, cynical" and that's why I don't get many replies. There is very little excitement in them. That's because I am not really into expressing my own feelings. I tend to hide them. Most men do. Gotta work on that. I'll start by changing my nic from BigStar to Osama bin Fabio.

I have to do some work now. Later I will post a little about our trip to the Wonderland with my D.

Take care,

BigStar

Read you man, 5 by 9.

<strong>
I often think that my posts are too "logical, cynical" and that's why I don't get many replies. There is very little excitement in them. That's because I am not really into expressing my own feelings. I tend to hide them. Most men do. Gotta work on that. I'll start by changing my nic from BigStar to Osama bin Fabio.
</strong>

Who is Fabio? You know how it is, I just browse through most threads, some do strike a chord inside me and I keep on posting on them. And your thread strikes a deep chord inside me, defiantely, as I see your posts more or less mirroring exactly mine. Similarly, I notice that the same crowd keeps on chipping in on my thread.

You should get more answers and advice though, as your situation is just soooo typical and I do know a few guys here who could chip in with helpful stuff, for sure. But maybe you’re right - maybe you're just way too insensitive, hard, cold un-excited and an old cynic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>