Please see my latest thread:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=011195

I would really like to talk with you if possible. Please let me know how I would go about doing that.

NOMO

How about if you do this. Take a look at my site, www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com I have some articles and some other stuff that deal with infidelity... quite a few Q/A's too.

If you think after reading those that you like my approach and my philosophy (or the things you've read here) then send me an email, my address is at my site. Be sure to put your MB name in the subject line, or if you like, post these things here. Give me the basics..... make it brief (you have no idea how much mail I get <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and as much as I would love to read every thread I haven't mastered the art of time magick yet.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) I'll ask what I need to know from there.

Then I can let you know what I think and what I'd suggest. You can decided from that if you want to work with me.

OK? Cool.

I'll be around Mon, Tue and Wed this week. Bump this if I miss it and don't get back to you.

C

I also sent you an email but will post my email here as well. I am a veteran MBer, joined the board in 2000 after discovering my H's EA/PA with a single young coworker.

The affair lasted 6 months with the usual ups and downs, betrayals, lies etc. It finally ended and we began the recovery process.

H refused counseling, so I read books Plan Aed my heart out. First year very difficult, second year much better, 3rd year almost back to normal. H refused to discuss the affair, said we had beaten the topic to death during the A.

In March of this year discovered renewed contact with same OW, several hours of phone calls on his cell phone bill. I asked him about it, he cried, was very remorseful, would go to counseling.

In May, discovered contact again. H noves out on Mother's Day saying I would never trust him, he could not be the romantic person I wanted. He called me a week later, told me he loved and missed me, was sorry for everything.

Contact never ended though. I obtained a copy of his latest cell phone statement, several hours of phone calls to her still. I drew my line in the sand, said I was done, I wanted a divorce. He was not to call or see me. When he came to visit the kids, I would be unavailable to him.

So, it has been 3 days since that last terrible day. I have not seen or heard from him since. Your advice would be most welcome.

^ for Cerri

Hi NOMO.... nice name by the way, I like it.

The affair lasted 6 months with the usual ups and downs, betrayals, lies etc. It finally ended and we began the recovery process.

H refused counseling, so I read books Plan Aed my heart out.

Ok, so you did Plan A while the affair was going on? Or after it ended? Once an A is over Plan A really doesn't apply. At that point he needs to prove to you that you should take him back. He needs to make restitution for the pain he caused by being willing to do what it takes to re earn your trust, to meet needs, and to live by POJA.

First year very difficult, second year much better, 3rd year almost back to normal. H refused to discuss the affair, said we had beaten the topic to death during the A.

I would agree with that.... IF the conditions that led to the A and the conditions that allowed it to happen were adequately discussed and addressed.

In March of this year discovered renewed contact with same OW, several hours of phone calls on his cell phone bill. I asked him about it, he cried, was very remorseful, would go to counseling.

An interesting side note. Women who have affairs that end, and who then recover their marriages and regain the feelings of love for the husbands rarely relapse.... as long as the marriage is going well, anyway. Men on the other hand can be wildly in love with their wives, have all their needs met, and just out of the blue decide to reignite the A. Precautions for making that difficult are far more necessary for men as time goes on.

In May, discovered contact again. H noves out on Mother's Day saying I would never trust him, he could not be the romantic person I wanted. He called me a week later, told me he loved and missed me, was sorry for everything.

Ugh.... How horrid for you. Ok, well that's all fog talk. The up and down roller coaster stuff.

Contact never ended though. I obtained a copy of his latest cell phone statement, several hours of phone calls to her still. I drew my line in the sand, said I was done, I wanted a divorce. He was not to call or see me. When he came to visit the kids, I would be unavailable to him.

I would agree with all of that as a good position to take, except I would have inserted "separate" in the place where you said "divorce." Laying out firm boundaries and conditions is very acceptable and needs to be done.

So, it has been 3 days since that last terrible day. I have not seen or heard from him since. Your advice would be most welcome.

Ok, it seems to me that the mistake you made in all of this was not to put extraordinary precautions in place when the A ended, and then to stay on top of them. If he can't be trusted with a cell phone, then he doesn't have one. Ditto with an email account or internet access at home. His life (and yours) needs to be an open book. There should be no possibility of secrets or privacy.

I would guess main reason the A reignited is because it could. If he knew that you would know the minute there was contact then it would be far less likely that he would initiate such a thing.

At this point I would say put together a brief and very direct Plan B letter and stick to it.

Does this woman live in the same town? Work with him? Who have you told? Did they know about the A in the past? How old are your kids? How long have you been married? Have you ever confronted the OW? How much younger is she? Is he living with her now that he's out of the house? (I did say I would ask other questions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

C

Ok, so you did Plan A while the affair was going on? Or after it ended? Once an A is over Plan A really doesn't apply. At that point he needs to prove to you that you should take him back. He needs to make restitution for the pain he caused by being willing to do what it takes to re earn your trust, to meet needs, and to live by POJA.

Yes, I plan A'ed during the affair, once me moved out went to Plan B. Three weeks later he came home, I implemented Plan A again. He never made the restitution for the pain, he came back, I let him in with wide, open arms.

H has a cell phone through his job. It is a necessary part of his job as he visits clients all day long. His cell phone bill always went to his corporate office, never came home but that one time in March. I sensed something was not right between us in March, however, he did not have any unexplained abscenses, was not really distant. Just something was off, so I looked at his cell phone bill when it came to the house. I really did not expect to find renewed contact, it was such a shock.

I never saw him online emailing her when he was at home. I have browsed through his temporary internet files, never found email accounts. Since he is not at his office, it would not be feasible for him to email her from work.

Thanks for that side note about men and renewing or having more affairs. I really thought that we were doing well, having great SF, spending the 15+ hours a week together, laughing together, enjoying family meals with the kids. We just came back from a great family vacation two weeks ago.

Does this woman live in the same town? Work with him? Who have you told? Did they know about the A in the past? How old are your kids? How long have you been married? Have you ever confronted the OW? How much younger is she? Is he living with her now that he's out of the house? (I did say I would ask other questions )

Yes, we live in a big city. She is about 1 hour drive from us, across the other side of the city.
They were coworkers three years ago, when the affair was revealed, H did quit his job in order to save the marriage. Three years ago all friends and family knew. This time just my closest friends. My kids are D 17, S 15, D 12. Married 20 years, never confronted the OW. She is 12 younger than H, 11 years younger than me, single, never married, no kids. However, he claims she is engaged, that she is about to get married in August. There renewed relationship is purely platonic, she is just a friend. According to H, he no longer has those romantic feelings towards her. I do not believe they are living together, when he moved out in May he gave me a key to his apartment. He did not do that 3 years ago, as she was constantly at his apartment.

Update:

H came over yesterday to teach my son to drive. Son just got his learners permit. H drove up, son met him outside. When H left, he just dropped S off in the driveway, did not come in. Son left to go to friend's house. H turned around, came back into the house. Just wanted to say hello. I said hello. He said he loved and missed me, and gave me a hug. I did not say anything.

I called H later on, explaining that when he cleaned out his clothes from the closet, he took a pair of my slacks by accident. We then had a long conversation, him saying how confused he was, how the OW is just a friend, but could not understand why he could not stop calling her. He loved me, felt he was going crazy.

I just listened but asked one question, if she was about to get married in less than two months, why was she spending hours on the phone with someone other than her fiance. What were her motives in this? He said he did not know, they were just friends, she was helping him out. I did not say any more. See, three years ago he told me how competitive she was, she hated losing. When he came back to me, she said she was the loser, she lost him to me. Now, she has a chance to really break up his marriage, so she has won. Even if she is engaged to someone else, she still won. I wanted him to connect the dots.

Unfortunately, I really do not believe she is engaged. If she were, I do not know how to get in touch with her fiance to warn him. I would if I could, if I believed the story of the engagement. She has been burnt once before by my H, she knows now not to have a physical relationship until divorce proceedings have been implemented by me.

I know I messed up by engaging in the conversation. Believe me, I know how this does not help the situation. I guess what I am doing is trying to find peace for me, so by talking to him, I am trying to connect my own dots. I am not sure what my ultimate goal is here, do I want him back, or do I just want him hurting and missing me, then divorce him. My motives may be less pure than I think. I just want him to experience some of the pain I have felt, have been feeling. That is the only way for him to understand what the affair felt like, what this renewed contact feels like.

So, Cerri, I need you to help me sort out my feelings. Also, if there is a shred of hope that this marriage can be saved, I want to explore that hope one last time.

Thanks for responding. I really appreciate your advice and guidance.

NOMO,

Damn, I feel for you! You are in a bad spot... one which I never got out of. I do not agree with everyting Cerri says (although I respect her vastly greater knowledge, exerience, etc.) when it comes to stopping recontact. I really just don't Cerri on this point. Even though I had unlimited cash to police WS and she knew it, the A kept on. Maybe the public outing is the key... I don't know. I did catch her many times. However, she constantly complained about living in a prison due to my efforts. I don't see how Cerri deals with this issue. In my opinion, some WS are just nasty poeple and are going to cheat for thier own selfish interests no matter what you do. I hope you are not in that deal, but it sure sounds like it.

By the way Cerri, I do not agree with your point about women not relapsing. I think women are prone to find fault in the future with their man and then use that as an excuse to reigite the affair. I have seen this happen to three of my friends and me. The woman "falls back into love" but then the guy screws up and she is back on the A trial very quickly.

conan

Conan,

I really hear the anger in your post and I understand. I believe I know why our WS continue to have contact with the OP - I believe it is a lack of respect for the BS. Yes, they had an affair, got caught. However, we, the BS, who found this site to save their marriages are considered pushovers. We will do whatever it takes, fulfill needs to save the marriage. The lack of serious consequences to their affair is what is leading them to more of the same behavior.

I hope you find some peace in your decision. I know you want to focus in on your D, but remember, she will grow up and you will be left alone. Do not let your anger towards your W cloud your judgement, there are are multitudes of wonderful, caring women out there who would not heap this type of betrayal on anyone.

Good luck to you. Thanks for responding.