Monday night H called, he wanted to talk, I was working out. I called him back after my workout and shower and was very cool and distant on the phone. He immediately noticed my reserve and questioned why I sounded so distant. I really did not answer, he gamely tried to continue the conversation. I cut it short, saying the kids needed me.

He called back two hours later, said he could not sleep. This was about 11:30 PM, that he wanted to tell me he missed me. I said OK. He asked, do you miss me, I finally said yes. He said he was sorry for everything, that he did love me and could not understand why he would keep hurting me. He wanted to see me, I told him tomorrow evening after he got through his driving lesson with S, we could go out for coffee. He kept insisting it had to be tonight, I said it was late, I was tired. Told him goodnight, went to bed. Fell into a deep sleep. Then about 1:00 AM I heard a noise in my room, it was H. He just crawled into bed with me. I did not want to cause a scene in front of the kids, who were still up. I let him stay, we hugged during the night.

This morning he tried to make love. I told him I could not, that we should talk. He begged to come home, he was lonely. He would bring me his cell phone bill every month, to prove that he was not in contact with the OW. If I would only let him come home, he was crying. I held firm, no, we were not a revolving door. The kids and I were at his mercy, that he let his emotional state dictate his actions. We needed time to heal too. They needed to see consistency and a true effort from him in order to even trust him again.

Here are the following conditions I said was a minimum requirement for him to come back home:

 Contact his Employee Assistant Program on his job, and sign up for free counseling. He does not like our current therapist. He would get about 5 free sessions, enough to determine the comfort level with the new counselor. He would have IC and this was to continue for a minimum of one year.

 He would stay in his apartment. We would date, no sex, just dates, for the next three months. He was free to visit with the children, and have them over to his apartment during the weekend.

 He would immediately stop all contact with the OW. He would bring me his cell phone bills each month to prove no contact.

 We would have family night at least once a week, where we all have dinner together, or go out for and have fun family outings.

 We agreed that we needed to renew our faith and relationship with God, he could not use the excuse that his sins were unforgivable. God forgives each and every sinner, if we ask for forgiveness. We would go back to church, and he was to have fellowship with the Christian men at the church to help him stay on track.

 He would enforce boundaries with his mother, to stop her from verbally bashing me anytime she felt like it. His mother would never like and accept me, he has to come to terms with that. However, he can change his interaction with his mother. He can firmly but kindly discourage her verbal bashing, insist she call him on the home phone if and when he moves back. If his mother wanted to see him, he would visit with his family or not at all. It would be her choice. This is what I am hoping the IC would help with.

 We would not put any unnecessary items on credit cards, until we can both agree-Policy of Joint Agreement. He would not change the address of the credit card statements, so I could monitor his spending.

I hope this would really get us started to begin healing again. I told him I needed the three months to try and come to terms with everything that has happened, from 3 years ago to renewed contact this year. I also needed time to heal, to take a break. It was up to him to do all the work for recovery now.

Any further suggestions or just advice or feedback would be appreciated.

<small>[ July 03, 2003, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: NOMO ]</small>

Hi there, not Cerri, but wanted to comment. . .

I think you did a wonderful job here, and all of your ground rules sound perfectly in perspective here. I think the counseling will help a great deal, and all the other things listed are well thought out, not all one sided, and totally reasonable.

One thing I want to let you in on. "We agreed that we needed to renew our faith and relationship with God, he could not use the excuse that his sins were unforgivable. God forgives each and every sinner, if we ask for forgiveness. We would go back to church, and he was to have fellowship with the Christian men at the church to help him stay on track." While this is totally true, and he may be able to accept that God has forgiven him, it may be hard to understand how. It took me almost two years to get to a point that I was able to accept it. See, I knew God and DH forgave me, but I was having such a hard time forgiving myself. It was really hard on me. Just about every mass I would get all teary and wonder how I ever went astray, how I ever hurt my DH. This past East I went to confession. Mind you, this is something I hadn't done is about 15 yrs. It was one of the hardest things for me to do, but it was something I just needed to do to show me, DH and God just how much my marriage meant/means to me. Try to be understanding in this. When one finally hits that OMG what did I do, sometimes it's really hard to just accept that forgivness. KWIM.

Anyhow, I think you are doing well. I hope that your WH is sincere and that things go well for the two of you. It is a long hard road ahead, but well worth it. All my best to you.

Nomo,

Wow. U R good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How are you all doing now? Why the change on his part?

L.

This was predictable, hr does not want to lose what you provide to him. You were successful in getting his attention, now the real work begins, can he become a worthy marital partner, or is he going to do just enough to get by. Sneaking into the home (and your bed) in the middle of the night, violateing any consideration of what you want is a huge red flag. That was all about him. This is the difficulty with such personalities, everything will be about them (little or no focus on you).

I think your list was very good, especially staying apart and no sex. You will get a chance to see what he is made of when not getting what he wants from you, without first changing and demonstrating substantial changes. This is important, IMO changes don't mean anything if they are only in response to rewards, then it is a bargain, not a change. He has severe personality defects that he must change, including how he deals with his mother.

He should be able (without prompting) to be able to demonstrate he can see you, understands your needs, and independently meets them, as well as keeps you safe without any nagging on your part (voluntarily). If he never does anymore than the bare minimum you require, well, you have your answer, he is just reacting to his need not to lose what you provide (and you yourself are of no particular importance).

The insistence on counselling is critical too. He should be attending regularly and for long time (his problems are severe), IMO that should be together (whether IC or mc) so you can see what is happening. You should not have to nag about it, or find counsellors, if he is worthy he will recognize the need and rise to meet it. The difficulty for fair-minded givers (like yourself) is the dance doesn't fundamentally change, it just shifts a bit. You start feeling guilty or sorry for the spouse as they struggle and mope about, they do a little more, so you give in, yada yada yada, the boards are full of such stories and unhappy people. Keep him at a distance, judge with a critical eye as if you never knew him, see if he can become a worthy partner, carrying his full emotional/psychological load in a marriage.

Do not allow yourself to feel guilty over his distress/sadness that is how one is manipulated by such personalities. This is a serious business, you have taken back your life, don't be lulled into giving it away again. His behaviour now is typical when someone loses something, they want it back, that is a whole different thing than a real desire to reorder ones life. Hopefully he will cross that rubicon, and actually change himself, the odds are long, few really can or do, but it is up to him not you, you did your part you stopped enabling him, you stopped protecting him from the consequences of not carrying your marital weight (that being you lose your spouse).

IMO this is where so many people go wrong with such individuals for spouses. They want the marriage so bad they just keep tolerateing dysfunctional behaviour. When you want something so bad you will not let it go, you gaurantee failure. It is too your credit you finally understand that, stick to your plan and regardless of how it ends up you will be a much healthier happier individual, better for yourself and your kids.

For now the ball is in his court, but one thing I would advise. Be adamant and follow up, protections his movements/money etc. Many cell phones have on-line access, as well as customer service. He should willingly, and CHEERFULLY provide total access to his life. This is spelled out somewhere on MB. That means all communications (phones, mail, etc.) account numbers names, passwords etc., check them all the time. You should be able (and do so) to call him anythime and get an answer. You should know where he is every second of the day. If he is home, and you call, he should be there. If he is out and you call, he should be where he says etc. etc. No unaccounted for time. Ditto money, all accounted for, every nickle, and you have access to all accounts. This is not how a plan B works, but you have elected to attempt a recovery again, and listed your conditions which he accepted. You can be almost certain his mother, and ow will be working against you, that is fine, if he wants them you are prepared to let him go...but he has said otherwise, so you need accountability until such time as he balks, then you have your answer.

<small>[ July 03, 2003, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

NOMO,

This may sound strange....but I put it in writing. That's right....typed up a contract and we both signed it. I did this because in the past, H would agree to things and then renege, saying he never agreed to them in the first place. It was a symbolic thing....it's not like I pull it out and say "see" (although I still have it), but there was a formality about it that gave me more peace of mind. This is non-Harley, and I don't know of anyone else who's done it (so I'm not saying this is definitely something you should do....just sharing)....but it really helped to cement the agreement for me and let him know just how serious I was. Like you I had already dealt with multiple infractions and I never wanted to do it again.....ever.

starfish has a terrific point, writing is a very good idea, especially during turbulent, foggy, emotional times. Maybe even a video contract.

Dear NOMO:

I know you want happiness WITH your H. I am so glad for you that he wants to return.

One grain of caution, though, you have been through this before, dear NOMO. I like the conditions you gave him. How many times does your H have to go through this experience to finally learn what he really wants? How many times do you have to get hurt to put a stop to this?

I hope for the best for you, but you and I know: "Th best predictor of future behavior is past behavior".

Be careful, NOMO. Hugs...

Pirncess0413

Thanks for your comments. I understand what you mean about forgiveness, my H’s affair was 3 years ago. In the three years, he said he could not forgive himself, therefore, God would not forgive him either. Thanks for your perspective, it seems on track with my WS.

Orchid

How are we doing now? Hanging in there. H spoke to his Mom on Tuesday, really laid down the law. Either she would accept his family or she should not call at all. He did this on his own, with no prompting from me. I understand it was very emotional, his mother hung up on him. Why the change on his part, I finally drew the line in the sand. I said enough, I will not tolerate contact with the OW. For the first time in his life, he is afraid of losing me. Now, all his attention is focused on fixing what is wrong, when before he was content to coast along.

Sufbd,

I really enjoy reading your posts, they are very analytical. Yes, he is distraught. I knew this type of boundary would really send him reeling, it is a painful reminder of the abandonment he experienced as a child. I agree on the counseling, he needs to have a professional help him with his issues. There are a lot of broken things inside him that I cannot help with. I think he finally understands that.

I am not feeling guilty over his distress, just extremely saddened. I know this is serious, this is the final try. The trauma he is experiencing right now hopefully, will be the catalyst to real and lasting changes in his behavior. I will be adamant about following up, I told him he has to voluntarily bring me a copy of his cell phone bill every month. I should not have to ask for it. All credit card statements will be coming to the house, and I will initiate a credit check periodically to monitor any new accounts.

Star*fish,
I have put it in writing. I was attempting to set up a separation contract with all of this spelled out. We would both sign it. I drew one up three years ago, and we both signed it, it was more of a financial agreement than an emotional agreement. I have heard of this technique before, and I right there with you in your thinking. Thanks for the suggestion.