Help!
The good news- after 12 months of separation and 11 months of Plan A by me, my WH wants "to find a way to make our M work." Says he's been unhappy since he moved out, missed the kids terribly, and wants to move back home.
For the first time, 18 months after D day, he has admitted the A to me! (I want others in similar situations to hold on to hope!)
So... what's the problem?
He never said he loves me or missed me- in fact, he still thinks that "maybe we didn't belong together in the first place."
He says he ended the A in February, but still thinks about OW and misses her at times. He even feels sorry for her because she's "almost 30" and still thinks they "could have something very special together."
Now what? I'm counting on you vets to guide me thru this. I don't want to encourage false recovery but I'm unsure if some WSs emerge more slowly from fogland than others. How should I proceed?
PS He has agreed to return to MC again, after a 14 month break.
Thanks to all.

I have no Idea what to do. But GOOD LUCK!!!

Dear Good guy,
Thanks for responding so quickly- it's good to get some emotional support while I sit in confusion!

pb,

An 11month Plan A????? yikes. That is overly long....but the results are what matter. Here are some questions however. What conditions (aside from the very good intention of MC) are you asking to be met before he returns home? Can he promise No Contact? Will he be willing to write a no contact letter together with you? Do you have a recovery Plan that includes his plan for protecting you in the future from infidelity? If you let him back in without these things in place, negotiated BEFORE he returns, you will end up with a marriage that is just as vulnerable as the one that suffered the affair.

Dear starfish,
He has verbally agreed to no contact, but I guess I need to formalize it in a letter. Fortunately, he has read "His Needs..." and is familiar with the concept.
The other good news is that he is no longer working in the same office building as the OW and told me that he thought that was a good thing.
Part of what I'm struggling with is how to continue to try for recovery without LBing.
PS-It wasn't really 11 months of Plan A- the past several months, it was a modified Plan B (no letter) with only minimal contact because of the children. I didn't think a Plan B letter would work because he kept denying that there was an A.

pb,

You talk about ambivalence....and that worries me. It sounds as though he doesn't have marriage building as much of priority, but rather just misses the kids. Is that what you want? It's okay if he doesn't feel in love with you and is ambivalent about his FEELINGS....because feelings change. As long as he is not ambivalent about working through the problems you all had in the past...then that would be better. But for real recovery to occur....there must be compensation. And compensation requires certain elements. The Plan B letter (that you omitted) would have spelled out what those conditions need to be. I know for me, they would include... remorse, counseling for a minimum of six months with a mb marriage coach or the Harleys, a no contact letter, a recovery plan that includes incorporating the four rules (time, care, protection and the POJA), a plan to protect me in the future from infidelity (specifically how would he avoid vulnerablity in the future), some form of accountability (radical honesty and opening his life to scrutiny and exploration) to name a few. Remember chere....if you just say....come on back.....all you get back is the wounded marriage you had before, and the vulnerability is still gonna be there. You don't want to do this again do you? It shouldn't be enough for you that he is just "willing" to come home because he's lonely right now. And if it is....where did you learn to accept so little? Be smart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I agree with Star*Fish ...

I especially like the idea of counseling with the Harleys .... make that a requirement.

Don't settle for a lukewarm effort on his part.

Also .... for him to re-respect himself .... he should put in masculine effort .... be a BIG MAN in his own eyes..... move mountains to make this work.

That is one of the ways Mr. Pepper progressed with his personal recovery. He began to look like a "poop" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> when he looked in the mirror .... and he did the necessary work to change that self-reflection.

He began to respect himself for his efforts. That is important.

Pep

Dear star*fish,
I think the ambivalence IS towards me. He says he wants to do "whatever it takes to make the marriage work."
He also says that he struggles with ambivalence about me- some days he wants to be with me and others he doesn't. I realize feelings are a variable and can change. My concern has been his continued caring attitude toward the OW-"Ifeel sorry for her" and little toward me. I realize from some of the stuff in the archives section that remorse is not always present early in recovery.
I don't want to settle for anything less than a wonderful mariage of 2 partners who BOTH get their ENs met consistently. I guess I just don't feel I can make all of these demands right now.
Pepper-
How do I get to the place where he actually sees the poop in the mirror?

I'm happy for you, but when my WH returned home it was for all kinds of reasons (he missed our kids, our house, I was having a baby, we have good jobs in a lovely town, we have history together, our fiancial accounts would be split, people thought we were a wonderful couple, etc. etc.)

The one thing missing - consideration for me. He still felt sorry for OW, thought they were great together, defended her and their actions.

I had read SAA and felt like, "well this is to be expected", it will get better. It didn't. I was miserable. Played phone police. He eventually contacted OW again each time and I asked him politely to leave.

I won't settle again. You are important. Your feelings are important. Don't make this so easy for him. I made this mistake.

Hope I wasn't a downer. Good Luck.

pb511

Your perseverance should motive a lot of us who lose hope very early on this road. You post hit home here cause H is giving me mixed feedback that got me confused. So I still have to wait some more... The way I see it is don't worry about his feelings right now (ambivalent ones) if Harley's theory is good then you will fill that love bank and he will get in love again. But also stablish some ground rules for him to return. On that I can not help but I wish you the best of lucks!

star*fish

....a plan to protect me in the future from infidelity (specifically how would he avoid vulnerablity in the future).....

Care to elaborate a little on that plan?

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

okay mathilde....here's an example of a plan. My H used to go to strip joints. His infidelities happened with prostitutes. So he had to come up with a plan to be able to get out of situations where coworkers and clients would desire to go to these places. We practiced the lines he would say. He wrote a letter to management saying he would no longer participate in these activities. If your husband worked with the OW....his plan might be to look for another job, go to church, join and accountability group. The point is....that the events that led to the affair need to be altered to protect the BS.

Thanks star*fish

I got it and I hope IF in the future to be able to do that with POJA.

You can't get your H to see the poop in the mirror. He has to do that himself.

You can be honest and discuss what characteristics you find important in a mate. Like honesty, integrity, strength, loyalty and such.

I made a list of things I was worthy of. I sent H a copy of my list.

I am at work, and I can only do this from memory... it went something like this.

"I deserve a mate who can resist the temptations of another woman."

"I deserve a mate who is honest in the relationship as well as in life."

Stuff like that. I think I had about 12 items or so. It was me making a statement of what my boundaries were at the time.

Dear Dueinjan,
Your message was NOT a downer. It showed me that what I fear will happen CAN happen. I really feel like I've worked hard on me this last year and know what I want in my M, but it's hard to figure out how to get it.
I plan to continue to make deposits in the Bank, but realize he may do exactly what your H did. It has to be so frustrating for you after letting him back in to your life.

Dear Matilde,
Please do keep the hope. It really helped me to see how others have succeeded and if my small victory helps you continue on this difficult journey, I am so happy to help. I really believe these principles work.

Dear Pepper,
Do you remember that you helped me when WH was picking up his things to move out and I baked gingerbread while he did it? I still smile about that. I'm not sure he's ready for a list of my ENs yet. I plan to keep building up good will and will certainly make my needs known to him over the next few weeks.
Dear Star*fish,
You are so strong! I really admire how much inner strength you have had. You keep me focused on sticking to the Plan.

PB511,

Are you the primary giver in your family? Does your H allow you to 'enable' him?

L.

If he wants to return but is ambivalent... I suggest a few things that have worked in my marriage:

Pull back a little yourself, so he has to do more work. It is called the rubberband principle, when you pull back he comes toward you. When you move toward him he pulls back....

Let him figure it out, reconcililation, being with you, etc.

Let him pursue.

Suggest counseling, if you cannot afford the Harleys find a good christian counselor- or another who focuses on rebuilding marriages.

Define your boundaries and let him know what they are.

Talk about your relationship and what you need/ what you are willing to give.

That's all I can think of for now.. Oh one more, if you make love deposits it will build his love for you.... but I don't know if you want to do this at this point... but I do know it works, especially if the love deposits are in the area of his primary needs, or even top 2 needs- hey, the book says this!! HNHN!

You can recover, even if he is acting this way. My wh definitely acted that way, but we are progressing with counseling and time... let that happen before he comes home.. or at the same time with conditions...

Thanks, H

Dear Honey,
It's so nice to hear from you. I think we were posting our crises (sp?) at the same time last year.
The rubberband part is so hard for me. I guess I'm a plodder- I'd like us to move forward at a steady pace instead of this back and forth!
It's been one week since he told me he wantes to come back. He's been away with the kids (and his family) until tonight. He brought the kids back and had some beach gifts for me (candy and Tshirts), so it was ok. He was friendly and considerate. All good things.
BUT, I noticed he kept 2 boxes of taffy and it started my little voice talking to me about how one was for the OW. It starts all those emotions over again. But at least now, I just thanked him for thinking of me while they were away and didn't LB.
It's tough...but not as tough as it was before........