This is what I'm thinking of saying to start of the conversation.

"Do you think I'm still attractive?" he will say yes (liar). "The reason I ask is that I'm having a hard time with looking at myself and being happy. Also, last week when we thought you had a line on a job in Alabama I went on-line to get to realtor.com. The computer was acting up and I couldn't get to that website. Since I had recently accessed that site I thought maybe I could get to it through the History part. When I went there I was shocked to see all the porn / chat sites" Ok so that is where I lose it and don't know what to say!! I want to say "don't do it again! but that is a LB......I suspect he will become angry and defensive. Other things I can say: I don't want my past hurts play a part in our marriage. However I don't see how viewing porn / chat can help. To me it is a step towards having affair. I just don't want our relationship to go that route. What can I do to help you?

I want to confront him by the end of this weekend.

Bikermom..

i went back and read some of your posts...

so i wanted to offer the following advice...

It appears to be several things going on...

verbal abuse, possible husband's depression, porn/and or chat sites...

and while all these can be related ...I would suggest a different approach to them..

For things to really change in a marriage and for old patterns to stop and be replaced with new ones we have to stop and take a hard look at what role we play in them...this is not STATING or implying that you are responsible for his actions...BUT to illicit real change it takes both parties being willing to change...

On the area of verbal abuse...you need to get in and maintain as much control as you can each time it occurs...each time at the first onslaught of verbal garbage you need to remove yourself from the situation 100% each and every time....
you also need to stay in as much control as you can muster....not engaging in verbal onslaughts back...
You should get assistance on this ...I am nothing even close to being an expert in this arena but there are lots of things you can do...and not be a victim...

on the arena of his depressions AND the porn/chat...the concern I have with your post here is that it is really just setting him up to be confronted...
AND though he should be confronted you must do all you can to creat an environment that is safe and really gives him the opportunity for the two of you to discuss the internet porn chat area...

You must speak your concern about his depression from your heart about how much you love him and care and worry about him...

speak you concern about the porn on the way it hurts and undermines the relationship and how you envision this relationship of nurturing and turning to eachother...

seek out reasons why he feels the need to turn from you...
hear him out....

not roll over and play dead...but if you do just confront for the sake of being HEARD he will become defensive as will you...and the battle will be on...\

One good point of changing your approach to this is that it is not what he expects...and often changes we make are big attention grabbers..he expects you to blame and attack....and he's ready to deny and ignore...speak about from a different point of view...and you might just get his attention....

Do you think I am still attractive...is a trap...because even with porn and chat he may be very attracted to you...but you already don't believe him....change YOU change your thingking...

and I am not saying it is good or OK the porn/chats...I am saying if the bigger picture you seek is resolution and the two of you more initimate on many levels...then don't go at it the hard or long way...

ARK

ARK thanks.

When the verbal abuse was bad I would just leave. Take my daughter and we would go to a park or shop. I have to say 100% of the time (whether I leave or not) he comes full circle with an apology. I've learned when he 'spouts' off, if I let it roll of my back he comes around quicker than if I respond....which is hard to do and I need to find a balance on when to leave and when to let it roll.

I agree about the trap of "am i attractive" He has made comments about my weight...I stress eat and am trying to make an effort, but he won't let me join weight watchers or a gym until I show him I can do it on my own....control issue I know, I know!

For the past couple of days he hasn't been depressed and he actually has a job interview tomorrow. I still need to let him know I know about the porn...I'm just stuck. I'm afraid he will think I don't trust him...and right now I actually do trust him and believe he isn't having a PA....but want to nip this in the bud if he is having an EA online.

I guess timing is everything and I want to do this in a positive loving way. Last night was a good night for us. And it sounds like tonight will be the same. Partly because I've changed me. I was frustrated that he has been home since March 2003 and isn't contributing to the daily care of the home (cleaning, laundry). I've resolved not to hold him to it because it isn't in him. If I ask for him to make the house a priority for a particular day then he does the best he can....not my standards...but that is ok. I also resolved to be a happy person. Telling him I love him more, gentle touches/taps (have to be careful as he isn't a big touchie/feelie guy) and been agreeable on small issues and when he tells me about his day I'll say "Wow you must feel great to have gotten that done" or "That's what I love about you the ability to fix the car without thinking...I'm so thankful you can do that" or "I'm sure our neighbor appreciated your help today...you are such a good friend to him" Postive, self esteem builders for him. I'm rambling...but this helps me...stay focused on us and building him up.

Tomorrow I'm going to a lingere store to try on outfits that compliment the areas he tells me he likes....I want to try and surprise him....I hope this works toward showing him how much I love him and thus dealing with the porn/chat in a way he doesn't become angry.

"I want to confront him by the end of this weekend."

Why? What outcome do you hope to achieve? Be specific.

When you confront, you need to have already figured out in advance what YOUR goal is. Then determine is your confrontational endeavour is likely to achieve said goal.

Is your goal to feel better about yourself? (I think it is, but I could be mistaken.) If this is indeed your ultimate goal, you cannot borrow self esteem from your H.

Is your goal to tell your H how you find the porn sites intimidating and/or hurtful. If this is your ultimate goal, then just state your feelings. "It hurts me to realize you oogle other naked women." The rest is up to him.

Approach only after your have your goal clear in your mind, and you have decided the best way to achieve your goal.

P <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ep

BMom...

"Conversation starter" .... ask about HIS welfare. Compliment HIM about something good HE has done or how good HE looks. Tell him HE smells great. Ask HIM if there is anything special HE would need you to do with or for HIM this weekend. Ask HIS opinion about anything you've seen in the news.

THIS is not a conversation starter. "Do you find me attractive?" LOL! Most men would run for the hills hearing this, not just YOUR H! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Butter him up sweetly first, then ask the tougher questions.

You have "conversation" and "confrontation" intertwined in your first post.

If you really want a conversation with someone, don't confront ... be gentler and kinder. If you really want to confront, don't pretend it's all nice-nice conversation.... tell it like it is.

P <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ep

I need to confront him by the end of the week because it looks like he may be heading to out state for some temp work. Could be gone for 3 months.

I want to confront him so that he is reminded how much the porn/chat hurts me and I don't want that crap in my house.

We had another great night last night. I did lots of building him up, which surprised me how it also built me up. We laughed until we cried...joked around and we've made love for the past 2 nights. He has been busy getting things done around the house in case he has to leave for 3 months so I don't think he has had any computer time. My new fear is if he is gone for 3 months what will happen? I want to tell him that during the 3 months he is gone I'll need lots of reassurance from him because I'll miss him so much. He also has a friend's girlfriend repeatedly telling him he could do better. Last email from a girlfriend had this line it "wish I knew then what I know now....we would have never parted." That rubs me the wrong way!

My goal in confronting him is to stop this behaviour now before it gets out of control.

Dear bikermom...

Here are my concerns...

The big picture here is that you want a relationship with your husband in which both feel safe to verbalize and turn to eachother with their concerns and fears...

You also want to create an environment in which porn is not an issue...and know that for some marriages porn is not an issue...and exists within with boundaries and respect...(not advocating this...just warnging that it is not so black and white...example his viewing of porn (men are visual) does not equal that he is not attracted to you...

It just does not seem like a good idea to in your own words 'confront'...him on this issue and expect it to have a real postive outcome...and then him go away for three months...I am gravely concerned it will back fire...and he will retreat for three months in to the exact behaviors you want to cease....

Perhaps you could wait a while on the porn issue...and address the emails...
not confront..but how it is not apppropriate for a married man to accept such emails...

again create the environment of love and safety...

let go of some of your own pressure and anxiety to confront...
see some of these issues as taking time...and a learning curve...
change your approach and seek peace within first...

ARK

also one more thing.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

you said.. My goal in confronting him is to stop this behaviour now before it gets out of control

oohhh that's really not very realistic at all..
you can't stop or control anyone elses behavior

and attempting to do so...will cause stress and hurt to you....

what you want is for both of you to grow and change...and stop things because they are harmful to the marital relationship...come at him like he is wrong and bad and he will only defend..

ark

let go of some of your own pressure and anxiety to confront...
see some of these issues as taking time...and a learning curve...
change your approach and seek peace within first...

That is probably the best advise I've gotten. I want to hurry up and get it over with! But I think I need to give it time. In order to help me I started journaling. I also hope that this will show me a pattern in my behavior that might push him away. Also in thinking about the whole thing....when he went to those sites he was having problems performing...I think primarily because of the alcohol. So now that the fog has lifted I'm wondering if it was to 'jump start' him. However...the chat part and ex-girlfriends emails bother me.

BikerMom,

Your story is almost identical to mine. I got remarried in April of 2000 and a few short months into it, discovered that my new H was involved in chat rooms, phone sex and a couple of online EA's with old girlfriends. We had just got married and the issue was not unmet needs on his part, but a pattern of behavior that he felt entitled to continue into marriage. He didn't give me time to deprive his EN's and admitted in counseling later, after doing an EN questionaire, that all his needs were fulfilled. He really couldnt explain WHY he was carrying on this way.

Anyway, my advice to you is to confront with the evidence as soon as possible. To delay is to invite further infidelity. I found out later that had I not addressed it with my DH when I did, his EA would have evolved into a full blown PA. He was later grateful for my intervention into a behavior pattern that he knew was wrong but was having trouble stopping.

I will just tell you that my DH changed almost overnight when I confronted him. When he realized he was jeopardizing his marriage for his fantasy online life, he woke up. I have never regretted confronting him and neither has he.

I would suggest just laying out the facts. Tell him what you know, fact by fact. Tell him that you love him but explain how this has damaged your marriage. I suspect that he will be grateful that you intervened.

Thanks MelodayLane. I checked again last night and so far he has been 'clean' all week.

Interesting thing happened last night. While at a friends house DH comments "What a babe" to a girl on TV. HIS friend smacks him and says "Don't say that in front of your wife. As a matter of fact don't ever say that. You've got a great thing going don't screw it up"

I didn't have to say a thing!!!

We had to go to a funeral last night and for the first time in a long time I felt 'close' to him.

So maybe there is hope!