"I don't know how to do it and feel certain I haven't made another huge mistake"

Did you mean "have" or "haven't"?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

If we assume it is as written (even if a Freudian slip)... then why are you still here debating things in a sense?

If you haven't made a mistake, then you have made... I looked for an antonym of mistake and couldn't find one, but you get the idea - no mistake -> right choice.

No-one is going to change your mind. You will feel what you feel, until you feel something else. Living with OW could very well change that. Being away from your W, with the knowledge that she's off having a great life without you might change that, too. Who knows??!

In the end, you'll have to have some faith and courage to do something. Because doing nothing is the same thing as doing something - a very insidious something. Either choice will lead to some pain. You will not escape that. The best you can hope for is to make a choice that will lead to some pride and self-respect again, someday. That's my personal opinion FWIW.

I'm sooo confused...

who is right????

what is the mistake???

and tmd...I am curious about whether there really is no contact with the OW...or are you two in contact...

also what is your contact like with your wife...
what is the emotional level like...

I really liked some things your mom said in her letter...

Your longing to be loved in a way you fear you may never be loved is a common emotion to every human being.

note the reference to "YOU" and it being all about "YOU" is in that one sentence three times...

What makes you cling to this need for absolutes and garuntees with such things as emotions??

And the dark side of it is the way these feelings can become like a 'security blanket' we wrap around ourselves. We spin a cocoon of emotional isolation and suspicion of anything that threatens to invade that 'sacred perception' we have built. I look at your soul right now, and those are the vibes I'm getting.

WOW tmd...
what a mom;....hmmmm last word of advice my mom gave me the other day...let's see it went something like....

"Try a little catsup in your meatloaf next time dear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ...it won't be so dry then.".....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> just kidding... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wasn't it Carol Burnett who did the spoof on a soap...called
AS THE STOMACH TURNS

ARK

Shelle - The wedding ring has been off for some time now. It's in the bowl where I put my pocket change. My W hasn't worn her ring for years.

The anxiety is increasing. I still avoid the meds when I can. I've taken 5 pills total in the last month. Not a big one for medication. Now that I know what it is, when it's happening, it's not so scarey.
_________________________________________
J.R. - Man... That WAS confusing.. I'm not sure what you were talking about... at first... but I got the gist at the end. Yes I could use some courage. I'm implementing a fair dose of it just these last few days. I need time alone. If I stay that way, so be it. Maybe... in the end... Leaving will have been the mistake. I have to make a decision though. No more sitting the proverbial fence.
________________________________________
ARK^^ - The mistake is continuing to beat a dead horse... In my mind anyway... That insanity thing we've talked about... ya know?

N/C a month wednesday. Pure hell. I could work out minutes and seconds if you like. Pathetic.

Contact with the wife is cordial. She doesn't blow up anymore. She gets a bit peeved that I'm not around the house to do things... But... well... I am increasing my attendance to get some of the construction I was doing completed so we can put the house on the block this coming spring. That effort on my part seems to have quelled her rages for the time being.

My Mom... hmnn. She has suprised me on this at many levels. And Yes! We've established the focus - ME. From the relationship perspective, long overdue from my way of thinking.

I cling to the need to be loved absolutely. Read THAT as written. My wife has said she can't change. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> THAaaaWHACK!@#$ <===2X4====

In the grand scheme, I'm still young. Maybe that love is out there; maybe it's not. Maybe I'll don the robes of a monk. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have been spending more time with my son. We have been going out to eat and he's helping me measure boards before I cut them.. dad and son stuff... Overall... he's more intersted in cartoons. But I'm around more.

_______________
Sorry - didn't mean to confuse.

-TMD

TMD, sounds like you have things a bit more under control than when you first arrived at MB.

I am curious though....
if you have your "space",
you & W are speaking without big blowups,
you are spending quality time with your son,
you have plans for sale of the house,
etc... etc...

Why do you think your anxiety is INcreasing rather than DEcreasing?

Just wondering...
Shelle

<small>[ August 13, 2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: ShelleBelle66 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ShelleBelle66:
<strong>
Why do you think your anxiety is INcreasing rather than DEcreasing?

Just wondering...
Shelle</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me Too Shelle... Me too. let me share some of my recent wondering with you.

I had a long drive yesterday and plenty of time to think. I've been struggling with a point, I believe it was you who made it, of the OW not being able to really commit to saving her marriage if she knows I'm there for her. My anxiety, I believe, lay in that struggle alone.

Who cares that it was a promise? I've no integrity left.... so it seems... What's another broken promise in the grand scheme?

Also - I'm watching myself destroy my life as I knew it. There is a part of me screaming in the back of my mind that everything about this is wrong.

Yesterday - while driving - I had a salient 4 hours- a clearing of the fog as you all would put it - and thought I should end all of this insanity - this holding on - I thought of so many reasons why and they all made sense. My emotional response for the OW was not there. For a good part of the drive I couldn't find it. I felt cold.

Then I said to myself - to be fair - think hard on the reasons why you should hold on. I thought... for 4 more hours... I thought hard and with tears. And I thought of some really good reasons. Good ones that became better as the fog began to roll back in. Memories brought smiles and emotions came back in force.

The time spent in that cold place made it's mark though. The first 4 hours - NO anxienty. My physical exhaustion may have played a role in that fact. But the fact still remains.

I know... I'm babbling... it helps though Shelle.. I wish I'd had someone other than myself to talk to during that drive.

-TMD

<small>[ August 14, 2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: TrulyMadlyDeeply ]</small>

wish I'd had someone other than myself to talk to during that drive.

uH uH...
I think you are talking to the right person...

anyone else and it won't serve the same purpose...TMD you enjoy the banter and rebuttle a little too much...(not a negative thing...don't get me wrong...but arguing with oneself is a very good idea....)

it is YOU you need to have these talks with...
for no matter who lays next us at night...it ouselves alone...we must face in the mirror...

good times and memories are easy...
loving some others is easy...

liking ourselves..
even liking others is more hard...

ARK

Indeed, don't lose sight of that first 4 hours...

It holds a lesson for you.

It's a sign of what's to come, because it's inevitable. No-one can survive in a pressure-cooker, and your brain was probably finally getting fed up - showing you reality - it's hard for any brain to keep up the smoke-screen forever.

(Admittedly some manage it - at great cost. Are they happy? Ask yourself - are YOU happy in the state of mind when things are topsy-turvy, confusing, painful, etc.? That's more than a clue!)

Ark is right on - you need MORE discussions like that with yourself. Go deep! Question yourself, don't let emotion or logic "win". They both can co-exist.

TMD, it doesn't matter who you are talking to, as long as you just keep talking. It's amazing how much time & energy this takes, isn't it? I literally didn't do much else for an entire year, and I thought my situation was really one of the less "complicated" ones that I had seen on MB.

I do remember giving you a hard time about "waiting in the wings" of OW's marriage over on Rushed Fools thread -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I do truly love the OW. I love her enough to let her go back to try to fix her life because giving her all to that effort is important to her."
NOW you love her enough to let her go? Oh - it was just let her go to "try" to fix her life. With you waiting in the wings, I'm sure she will be successful in doing that. You are sabatoging her efforts by allowing her to continue contacting you, and you know it - maybe enjoy knowing it, just waiting to see how long until she shows up at your door with her suitcase in hand? How romantic..... bleeeechhh

If she does end up with you, will it not bother you that she did not try 100% to save her marriage? Until she does complete NC with you, she's not giving her H and her M the respect and effort that they both deserve. What does that say about her? What will that mean for you if you marry her? You will be with a woman who will not fight for her marriage - ironic, isn't it - that is what you are complaining about with your W, yet you are trying to repeat it with OW. All that talk about you fixing errors and learning from your mistakes doesn't apply?

"Her husband loves her. He's really pissed off... but who could blame him? right? His efforts have been nothing short of heroic. He makes me smile because I believe he can make her love him more than ever now. I believe this experience has made him see beyond himself for the first time in his life. They'll be OK."
As long as you are in contact with OW they will NOT BE OK - EVER. Stop kidding yourself. If you allow contact to continue and she ends up leaving him, you will be partially to blame for the failure of the marriage. Can you live with that?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You didn't answer me over there, but apparently my message got through... hmmm??

JMHO, but I wouldn't WANT someone who didn't have the decency to give their marriage the last-chance effort it deserved before bailing out for good. Again, I ask you to weigh the worth of your short teenage time with OW against the adult years you have had with your W.
Your M deserves your respect, not your adulterous relationship with OW.

"Who cares that it was a promise? I've no integrity left.... so it seems... What's another broken promise in the grand scheme?"
Look not just at the promises themselves, but rather the worthiness of where you are making promises. You offer no promises to your W, who has been human, made mistakes, but is still by your side nonetheless. But you are full of noble promises for an OW who has been out of your life for 15+ years? Examine which promises will help you put your life back on track, and which ones are destructive (to two families). Where is the integrity in the promises you have offered OW? You have made promises to help break up her M and family, but in your heart you think they comfort her?

... and the low moaning of a FOG-horn was heard in the distance... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

"Also - I'm watching myself destroy my life as I knew it. There is a part of me screaming in the back of my mind that everything about this is wrong."
That would be your conscience - glad to see you two are getting reaquainted.

"My emotional response for the OW was not there. For a good part of the drive I couldn't find it. I felt cold."
This is what NC is intended to do - it apparently is working.

"Then I said to myself - to be fair - think hard on the reasons why you should hold on. I thought... for 4 more hours... I thought hard and with tears. And I thought of some really good reasons. Good ones that became better as the fog began to roll back in. Memories brought smiles and emotions came back in force."
OK, now you can understand how I feel after 15 months post d-day. If I TRY hard enough, MAKE myself THINK hard enough, I can get pretty intensely worked up about my H's A. But it's not there on the surface EVERY day. I actually have to summon up the feelings, they are not controlling me anymore.

And you know what?
If you have to WORK so hard to convince yourself, what is it worth?
If you are going to destroy two marriages, you better be able to come up with many DAMN GOOD reasons at the blink of an eye.
Even then, it is a dubious undertaking.

"The time spent in that cold place made it's mark though. The first 4 hours - NO anxienty. My physical exhaustion may have played a role in that fact. But the fact still remains."

... and the FOG clears enough for some warm rays of sunlight to reach TMD...

"It's not having what you want.."
"It's wanting what you've got..."
... plays softly in the background...

"I know... I'm babbling... it helps though Shelle.. I wish I'd had someone other than myself to talk to during that drive."
Keep babbling TMD, it is what will keep you sane in all of this.
Keep challenging yourself and questioning what is right.
I am going to make it unanimous - you must get this right with yourself before you can get it right with ANYone else.

Take Care,
Shelle

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ August 15, 2003, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: TrulyMadlyDeeply ]</small>

Starting over -

N/C as of 11PM 08-18-2003
She said she couldn't continue to live 2 lives. I said I agreed and that she needed me out of her life to really try, right Shelle?, dammit!! right? I told her I was letting her go and that I am shutting down all the little things I could do to keep me in the forefront of her mind.

I was right... she's never been to the MB forums.. she gets headaches from just adding an attachment VIA email. It's her H that comes here. And her H that showed her the SAA stuff. Book Form.

I shut down all avenues of contact that I can control.

- The websites
- The Cell number
- Blocked her email domains at my email server
- I threw out her contact numbers
- There's nothing I can do about the stuff I have memorized.
- It's up to her to not call me at work or send me mail to the home where I've been staying. [I'm living at home now in the basement]

If she comes back to me again... I simply don't know how I can withstand it... or if I want to. I didn't want to break this off... I knew it's what she wanted though.

I asked my mom to pray... " and pray for [OW] and [her H] too. For them…... there may be room for healing. Pray to give [her H] those qualities that will make the memory of me fade quickly and bring her Joy in her love and her family." My Mom is good at praying.

______________________________________

To her H -

It's Loverboy ... as you so affectionately refer to me, If you're lurking, I truly admire your tenacity. She's spoken highly of you and your efforts toward change. So for what it's worth, coming from me, hold her close and be her rock, her provider. -S
______________________________________

_________________________________
Shelle - ARK - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Uggghhhhh....TMD...

So if I am getting this right..you two were in contact last night...and she really wants to try NC with you...and work on her marriage...

TMD...you need to mourn this...but (even I hate those BUTS at times... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

You must also believe through this that there is joy in life...
and that perhaps you are giving both of you the freedom to really love another...
this is not a death warrant...

you know I'm not gonna go real deep with you right now...(very unlike me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Your last post is hard on you and hard on BS who feel such pain at seeing your pain....and or have too stand by and watch their WS mourn another person...

tough on all sides....
yuck....

i'm sorry TMD...I know it hurts...
your prayer request to you mom shows much compassion...

this is why I hate infidelity...as much as I want to belittle the emotions that can exist between WS and OP...and all that...the truth is that it hurts a lot of people on all sides of the multi-faceted coin...and it's not worth the pain...too high a price...

If nothing else you have done the noble thing
and something that can be a step in making things right with in you...
and that's a good thing...

peace and Grace to you TMD
ARK

"N/C as of 11PM 08-18-2003'
TMD, who contacted who 8/18?

"I said I agreed and that she needed me out of her life to really try, right Shelle?, dammit!! right?"
Yep, it's painful, but it's the only true way for recovery to happen for OW & her H.
By making or allowing contact, you are only prolonging everyone's agony.

"It's up to her to not call me at work or send me mail to the home where I've been staying."
And it's up to you to stamp the un-opened mail "Return to Sender", or not take her calls.

"I'm living at home now in the basement."
Glad to hear it - a step in a positive direction for YOUR family.

"...hold her close and be her rock, her provider."
Take your own advice TMD, and let this be your goal with YOUR wife, not someone else's.

Take Care,
Shelle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ShelleBelle66:
"N/C as of 11PM 08-18-2003'
TMD, who contacted who 8/18?

She did. We talked for a long time. But I had written her a letter that I read to her that basically ended with "I don't want to see you, hear your voice, or read your written word..." Sound familiar? She wanted to say the same thing. This time I believe it will hold because we both agreed to it and we both saw the horror of what continuing would wreck.

"I said I agreed and that she needed me out of her life to really try, right Shelle?, dammit!! right?"
Yep, it's painful, but it's the only true way for recovery to happen for OW & her H.
By making or allowing contact, you are only prolonging everyone's agony.

"It's up to her to not call me at work or send me mail to the home where I've been staying."
And it's up to you to stamp the un-opened mail "Return to Sender", or not take her calls.
__________________

I still don't know what I will do if she contacts me again shelle. But I do know now, as does she, that it just makes things harder each time. I've spent this day in and out of moments when tears filled my eyes. I know my wife doesn't want to see that mourning for the OW. I don't know how to handle that. But I'll find a way and hope she understands. I called my W ife last night from work... I was there on a network outage till 2:30 am... wanted her to know I changed my cell number and that I was still at work... she would know that by the caller ID. I just called to tell her that. That's new. I guess I'm trying... She seems to be too. Odd that. I wrote in my journal during lunch that "though I can't fathom her forgiving me this transgression, it's equally hard to imagine something other than the life I've known all these years." It's still very hard to think of going back. My son is the hinge that holds this together so far. I don't like that fact. Ugghhh.

"I'm living at home now in the basement."
Glad to hear it - a step in a positive direction for YOUR family.

Yeah. My counselor asked me if I "know what they say about the journey of a thousand miles?" I didn't know. "It starts with a single step." She said. I laughed at the simplicity. You probably could guess what I said next... "Then What?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

"...hold her close and be her rock, her provider."
Take your own advice TMD, and let this be your goal with YOUR wife,

Well. I have to get through this wretched feeling inside of me first I think. I hope it fades. If it doesn't, I'm done... check me into the looney bin...

Shelle said - "not someone else's."

You might find this intruiging... I certainly did. I recieved an email from the OW's H. As much as I don't want to. I can't help but like the guy. I thought I'd share it... Because it impressed me. So for all you BH's out there... This one instilled some respect in me for this man.

It's cool to the touch yet the images invoked are white hot. It's demanding yet pleading. It's confident yet humble. It begins simply:

I do not know you. I do know the effect that you have
and are continuing to have on my wife and myself. I am
not innocent in what I am living through right now,
but I prayerfully seek to remedy my shortcomings
toward the wife that I love and toward the children
and household that I am steward over.

You have no business even speaking with my wife until
the day she is no longer my wife. Please change your
cellular number, and do not take calls from my wife
any longer.

I do not know what kind of person you are, my only
knowledge is through [My W]. Strictly speaking, adultery
and its consequences are something you will have to
live with. [OW's H's Transgression... keeping it private...] and its consequences is
what I have to live with.

My childrens names are [X, Y and Z]. When
you look at your son and consider what you would do to
give him the best chance in life, multiply it by 3 and
perhaps you will get a picture of what change I am
willing to make to remedy what has gone wrong in my
marriage.

I also adore my wife [name]. I have not been very good at expressing it, but with God's help I will learn. I ask that you get out of my world...Now. You have no right. I pray that you are convicted of your wrongs as I have been convicted of mine. [My W] is not your answer, and frankly, never will be your answer. Read "Wild At Heart" by John Eldredge and study it as I have.

OWBS



I thought highly of him for sending it. It gave him a voice that I'm still hearing in my mind. Quite effective.

Shelle - I'm not setting goals yet concerning my W and reconciliation. I'm testing the water before I take that first step and I'm trying to work through the finality of it all.

-TMD



Take Care,
Shelle</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

"She did. We talked for a long time."
I suspected it was initiated by her. Aren't you the least bit angry that she is toying with your
emotions by dragging things out? She supposedly imposed the NC rule, wrote the letter and all, but yet she can break it whenever she likes? C'mon, TMD - you are allowing her to string you along.
If she won't be with you, why are you letting her do this to you?

"But I had written her a letter that I read to her that basically ended with "I don't want to see you, hear your voice, or read your written word..." Sound familiar?"
Good step, but why had you not sent it already?
It may have prevented her breaking NC.
Or is THAT precisely the reason it was NOT sent?

"She wanted to say the same thing.'
Geez! Didn't you guys already DO THIS a half a dozen or more times?
(I already told you I am not a patient woman) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Yikes - I am glad my H did not waffle at all with OW. Two hours after he told me about the A, he was on the phone to OW - he set her straight... "I don't love you, I hardly KNOW you"...
"I love my wife and we are staying together"... "Don't ever contact me again"...
Hearing that (from where I was hiding at the top of the stairs) put wind back into my much-deflated sails. I love him for taking that step, for ensuring that OW did not encroach on MY life more than she already had. I saw it as him protecting me, protecting US, our M, from what he had had a hand in creating. He took responsibility for making sure it was DONE. I really admire him for that, I know it was not easy.

"This time I believe it will hold because we both agreed to it and we both saw the horror of what continuing would wreck."
If seeing the results of the A and the pain you have caused to (2) spouses and (4) children does not make you STOP this nonsense, then you two deserve each other.

"I still don't know what I will do if she contacts me again Shelle."
After all of this you don't know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Ok.. Ok.... I have put away the 2x4.
Sorry - got a little carried away...

"But I do know now, as does she, that it just makes things harder each time."
Ok - so in theory at some point it will become more painful to "compare notes" on how bad NC is than the NC itself?

"I've spent this day in and out of moments when tears filled my eyes. I know my wife doesn't want to see that mourning for the OW. I don't know how to handle that. But I'll find a way and hope she understands."
Just deal with it as best you can and don't EXPECT any sympathy from her. If she happens to give it, that would be a very important sign.

"I just called to tell her that. That's new. I guess I'm trying... She seems to be too."
Neither of you are the same person as you were pre-A. Glad to hear you are seeing that.

"though I can't fathom her forgiving me this transgression, it's equally hard to imagine something other than the life I've known all these years."
You can't imagine the changes, you won't get a "preview" of what it could be like... you just have to trust that YOU can handle it... however it turns out.

"My son is the hinge that holds this together so far. I don't like that fact. Ugghhh Why do you hate it? I could take this a couple of ways and want to be sure of your meaning.

"I thought highly of him for sending it. It gave him a voice that I'm still hearing in my mind. Quite effective"
Sounds like a man who is sure of what he wants and has the heart and will to make it happen.

"Shelle - I'm not setting goals yet concerning my W and reconciliation. I'm testing the water before I take that first step and I'm trying to work through the finality of it all."
Ok, I guess I was trying to rush you a bit.
I would just caution getting too caught up in the "reflection of it all" and missing the good things coming your direction. They may be subtle, but they are there I'm sure. Watch for them...

Take Care,
Shelle

Shelle wrote -

"My son is the hinge that holds this together so far. I don't like that fact. Ugghhh Why do you hate it? I could take this a couple of ways and want to be sure of your meaning.
______________________

It means that I don't want to carry on a potentially loveless relationship solely for the sake of my son. It's something he would become cognizant of in time. That thought bothers me.

-TMD

Shelle wrote -

"But I do know now, as does she, that it just makes things harder each time."
Ok - so in theory at some point it will become more painful to "compare notes" on how bad NC is than the NC itself?
______________________

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Funny stuff. Point taken.

TMD,

Having the A is like taking a sweet poison slowly. It will slowly kill you yet you will enjoy the taste and yearn for more. Another way to view it is like a frog put in a pot of luke warm water and slowly turning up the fire. The frog will not jump out (KIDS: don't try this at home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). Instead it is slowly die.

As long as the A continues, the M is dying a slow death. Sweet at times for the WS but bitter for the BS and family.

OPs could care less about the poison. What does the OW want to hear about your M? Has it reached that point yet? Because it will. Just a matter of when.

Now how does the A look?

L.

Shelle wrote -

"She wanted to say the same thing.'
Geez! Didn't you guys already DO THIS a half a dozen or more times?
(I already told you I am not a patient woman)
_______________________

Actually No. I've always left the door open. Up to now, I have never intiated NC and I'd never made any moves to make contact for her less accessible. GOD! Im goin' to the farm straight away. I've LOST it! I've lost it.

- TMD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>TMD,

Having the A is like taking a sweet poison slowly. It will slowly kill you yet you will enjoy the taste and yearn for more. Another way to view it is like a frog put in a pot of luke warm water and slowly turning up the fire. The frog will not jump out (KIDS: don't try this at home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). Instead it is slowly die.

As long as the A continues, the M is dying a slow death. Sweet at times for the WS but bitter for the BS and family.

OPs could care less about the poison. What does the OW want to hear about your M? Has it reached that point yet? Because it will. Just a matter of when.

Now how does the A look?

L.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks Orchid... Yes... the poison is sweet.

I didn't understand your question. "what does the OW want to hear about your M?" restate please.

How does the A look now? The same as it always has. Sad, destructive, unfair, selfish.

-TMD

<small>[ August 21, 2003, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: TrulyMadlyDeeply ]</small>

TMD

what's your plan here?
What are you doing??

What is the time you have allotted yourself in your head in your head to wallow in this quagmire...
and what is your plan to get going and moving on something...??

AND I assure you if we were talking face to face NONE of this would be in a tone that is challenging or defensive...but in a tone of what are you going to DO to help you move on...what is your plan to feel better...

what's your plan????
where do you see yourself..in a week a month six month...etc....

Because in some ways...you have wallowed over
this issues your entire life...in different levels of intensity....

I know my wife doesn't want to see that mourning for the OW. I don't know how to handle that. But I'll find a way and hope she understands."

hasn't she done this the whole marriage...

It means that I don't want to carry on a potentially loveless relationship solely for the sake of my son. It's something he would become cognizant of in time. That thought bothers me.

TMD these types of statements on a global level kill me....and yeah you're getting the brunt of my distastefullness on these musings....but for heavens sake...

every single relationship out there has the POTEnTIAL to be
loveless
hateful
hurtful
disrepectful
shallow
mean
icky
smelly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (OK smelly is just silly...no one says I have a smelly marriage...except maybe pig farmers...

SO WHAT!!!!!???????

logically then every relationship has the POTENTIAL to be
loveful
passionate
partnership
respectful
cherishing
any other foo foo word of choice...

we can wallow, prophesize and drown in the self fullfilling prophecy of potential doomsdayness...

You're holding yourself back from ever really knowing what a relationship can be...

why why why why...what is your payoff...

dam i really am becoming mean...
sheesh...

Go ahead and blast me for this post...
I might deserve it..
and it might get your mind of "other things".. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

peace brother...
and i do mean it...
ARK who is ducking for cover...