Here's a general question for all BS (and WS if they wish). Is it possible to be in a bad marriage and not know it?
It seems that so many BS felt that their M was good right up until D-day. And sometimes WS will say that they were in love with thier S up to the day the A began. (Once in the fog, of course, they say they love but are not in love.) After D-day all will admit that there were things about the M that could have been better, that EN could have been better met by both spouses. But most, especially BS, say they never see the A coming in their good M.
I know good and bad are relative terms but I'm sure you get my drift.
In my case I thought I had a good M. WW and I did things together, made love often, took care of each other and our Ds. Then WW has A and, even after the A is over, has no interest in returning to M. WW says the M hasn't been good for years.
So why are so many of us here if we were in a good M? If we knew that our M was in trouble wouldn't we have been working to fix it? Do people stay in bad M and convince themsleves that things are good?

I never thought of myself as being in a bad marriage, per se. However, I did know that we had problems. The biggest thing for me, was that I had NO IDEA how to "fix" those problems. Much of what went on (A's excluded) seemed "normal" to me, b/c of the home in which I was raised in (my dad is an alcoholic, and my mum didn't D him until I was almost 17 yrs old).

H had had multiple A's throughout our R. As it turns out, it's been an abusive R from the very start... but I fell for the excuses. Sigh!

It wasn't until I was told about MB, that I had the tools to decipher the problems in the marriage, and plans on how to fix it too. After putting them to good use, and going through an 18 month recovery with my H, I was able to determine at THAT time, that yes, it was a BAD marriage.

But in all truth, I didn't really see how bad it was until I was finally out of it. A fog of my own, I guess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Karen

23,

The short answer is.....I don't know. But here are some of my thoughts. My relationship with my husband was never really bad. We loved eachother. We filled needs....we may have needed some tweaking on a few things....but we were doing a pretty good job. Unfortunately, there were alot of outside pressures and temptations. We moved 17 times in 20 years. Our kids were having big psycological problems. My husband's job kept us apart for months and once whole year...apart. Inspite of that....we were trying to hold stuff together. Then one night he got drunk with the boys in Thailand....and well....you can guess the rest. My marriage was good....but it was certainly NOT invulnerable. It was vulnerable on many levels. We didn't have enough time together. Our recreational time was spent mostly apart. We couldn't see alot of the threats because when we were together....we felt good and were doing fine. But all of that other stuff, was eating away at the foundation of our marriage.

Now....with folks who have an affair....the fog and the madness can last a long time afterward. It changes their perspective....it shatters their ethical system in the processs. Hardly anyone seeks out an affair because they are evil....they become vulnerable (and yes, sometimes without even knowing it) and then they fail to protect their marriage when temptations arrive....then here's the tricky part....they have to put aside their ethics and morals to actually participate. And sometimes....they get lost and have a hard time finding their way back. It's hard, because in order to rationalize their actions, they have to have cause....they are looking and grasping for reasons. And even if the vulnerability was there....they make it bigger....blow it up...to help bring some sense into their senseless acts. Some of them wake up....and some don't. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

star*fish, you posts always make so much sense to me. Thanks!

One other thing I wanted to say...

I tend to agree that a WS puts their ethics and standards aside when there's a great temptation looking them in the face. I think (this is JMO!) that they take any little problem and then, in their mind, make it an ENORMOUS problem (in their mind) to use it as justification (in their mind again!!) for the A.

My marriage always seemed good and balanced. I could go visit family for a month at a time and arrive home to a faithful, loving husband who was happy to see me. He could go out of the country for work and he'd come home as a faithful, loving husband. Why? Because the temptation was not there. He didn't have someone constantly around him showing him admiration and having long conversations with him about things that he found highly interesting. Not to mention that the OP was cute and presented themselves as being the mirror of the person who stood before them.

I do believe that the OW my husband was with gave him the nudge he needed to have the A, but I think, for him to not feel so horrible about himself for doing it, he took an "annoying" problem we had and made it huge, so that he could tell himself it was "ok". She also told him that their time together was ok.

I still don't honestly know if he feels remorse for being with her. I do know that he feels horrible for hurting me in the process, but as far as them being together...only he knows and will not divulge that information (we're working on this).

The first couple of years of our M were not fulfilling for either of us. Things came right years 3-5, and in the last year before the A, I was the happiest I had ever been.

When WH left and then the A was revealed, I couldn't believe that such a thing could have happened, given how safe and loved and contented I had felt over the last year within our marriage.

Only now, in Plan B, am I seeing my M for what it really was, and my H for who he really is. Right throughout our M, my H was trying in his own quiet little way to control me. He did manage to gain control in some key areas, but overall he wasn't very successful. I have always been quite independent and capable of standing up for my own opinions.

Was it a good marriage before the affair? No.

My situation was like wondrme's. We had our little problems -- none of them were big and we were trying to work on them. It was hard because H was always out of town and then WHAM the opportunity presented itself VERY EASILY and he was out of town and therefore, how would I know? He went for it and then decides during and after that when the start of the A presented itself, he was actually wanting out of the M..... Justification for him is all. He ended the A because he says he realized that he didn't like the person he had become.

So how does he go from thinking he wanted out to not liking the person he had become and wanting his M back? The 2 and 2 never go together... probably never will because the WS is always trying to find a way to justify.