Is it possible to have a recovery when WW will not agree to NC. Says she loves her job and will not leave it. Likes the people on her shift and will not leave that. Feels this is the first thing (Job) that was ever "hers" and will not give it up and does not want me to hire on even though it is best paying job in town and she could get me on.

WW tells me she loves OM but had to leave him. Lived with him for 3 weeks then moved back in. Has been here 9 days but talked with him daily until Sat. Was so scared of him she wanted to leave the state that day ,Sat morning, but by Monday went back to work. I was with her when she tried to call her mom for a place to stay 5hrs away so I know that happened.

Will the A ever end if she can and does still talk to him and pass letters while at work. I can't confront on this due to the way I found out.(Reading diary and Finding letter hidden in her room.)He was absent from work last night and that prompted a long diary entry which I read and a letter to him that I can't find. I also don't want to confront just in case he has left town(possible) and don't want to do the big LB"ing.

<small>[ December 11, 2003, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: hurting12 ]</small>

No it is IMPOSSIBLE to recover when she is in daily continued contact with OM.
She doesn't want you to work at her job because that would upset her world of having her cake and eating it too. She needs a dose of reality! Before you let her come back home didn't you establish some ground rules of NC, looking for another job? That is what should have happened before you picked up the pieces for her. She has to prove that she is committed to working on the marriage and she has in no way done that.

No I didn't establish NC. All I asked for was NO phonecalls to or from him.She literaly showed up on my doorstep with NO place to go. She was in an unsafe place but I should have left her there until she would agree to NC. It's too late now for that though as she is here. I guess I'm still in A until it ends or the 6 months is up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> then B

NO (do I seem wishy washy answering your Q? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

You might as well do the best Plan A possible (no love busters, meeting the few EN's she's willing to allow you). Although you might want to consider implementing some of the points in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list before you go to Plan B.

Is recover possible without NC?

Yes. My H still works with the OW.

However...we separated 7 times. H was out of the house 14 out of 21 months. The affair re-ignited 3-4 times. The bad times lasted 2+ years. I did an 18 month Plan A. Then tried Plan B twice.

In our 7th separation, 4 months after it was supposed to have been over, about 2 years after the PA had stared...and she WAS dating his former housemate...and I discovered him, after a counseling appt, where he had sworn he wanted to reconcile...there he was, in his office, emailing HER.

I served divorce papers.

We reconciled about 4 months after that.

He worked with her but had no personal contact

I knew that because he gave me:
-email & voice mail passwords
-he was always where he said he would be
-he began counseling on his own
-my prayer partner's H became H's accountability partner, along with our counselor.
-He began attending a male Bible study, led by our counselor.
-I was welcome anywhere he went
-He stopped hanging at bars without me
-He stopped seeing the friends who had supported the A.
-He changed.

Co-workers are among the worst of continuing affairs. No contact is always a problem.

I hate seeing her at Xmas parties, retirement parties, family days, well, anywhere really.

And, my H & I are 3+ years in recovery. We renewed our vows, in front of our pastor, who had also counseled us, this past Jan 03.

It is possible to recover without NC. It is not likely.

Lor - I am so proud of what happend to you and your marriage. I didn't know there was a chance. Cause with me, there was no chance. Husabnd was in contact until she dumped him. And then he was done with me. Oh well. He got dumped, and then he decided to dump me.

I thought that as long as he was in contact with the OW there was no chance. Good to hear there is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurting12:
<strong>No I didn't establish NC. All I asked for was NO phonecalls to or from him.She literaly showed up on my doorstep with NO place to go. She was in an unsafe place but I should have left her there until she would agree to NC. It's too late now for that though as she is here. I guess I'm still in A until it ends or the 6 months is up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> then B</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hurting,

This may be hard to hear but regardless of what you think of her status, until she can treat you with respect, you are enabling her behavior.

If this is the best job she's had but she doesn't have a place to stay, then she needs to realize that having a great job and being homeless, equates to NOT really having a great anything.

Make sure she doesn't get you to buy into her false sense of security. She is willing to put her A with it's dangers ahead of you getting a good job. Now would you put your life or even your love in the hands of someone like that?

L.

hurting, the reason NC is so imperative is because the affair is like an addiction. In order to withdraw, ALL contact must cease. Every time she sees the OM, she is dragged back into the addiction and *YOU*, the BS are dragged back to D-Day. This is why Harley absolutely insists on no contact in order to recover.

How will YOU recover from this betrayal if your wife sees the OM every day?

Could an alcoholic recover if they had a drink every day? Of course not, they might be able to practice some controlled drinking for a few days, but it would be only a matter of time before they were back to full blown binges.

Harley says:

"My experience helping couples recover from infidelity has taught me that any contact between the unfaithful spouse and the lover ruins reconciliation. Even casual contact prevents completion of withdrawal from the addiction of an affair. Since an affair is usually an addiction, the only way to fully recover is to permanently separate the unfaithful spouse (the addict) from the lover (the source of the addiction). But even in the very few cases when an affair is not an addiction, total separation of the spouse and lover is a necessary act of consideration for the feelings of the betrayed spouse. It's the very least a wayward spouse can do to compensate for the suffering caused by the affair. Continued contact with a lover simply perpetuates the suffering of the betrayed spouse indefinitely.

It's been my experience that without total separation, mutual love cannot be restored, resentment cannot be overcome and protection from the threat of another affair cannot be guaranteed. So when I counsel couples who want to reconcile after an affair, I insist on total separation of the unfaithful spouse and the lover with extraordinary precautions to guarantee that they never see or talk to each other again. "

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

I think your situation is still very, very fluid and everything is possible. I mean, only since saturday she thinks that living with him is not such a good idea. Personally, I think NC is a real necessity. But for the moment, do everything you can in making YOUR place safe for her and get these $$$ deposited in the love bank.

Hurting....

You are triangulated with 2 master manipulators. You're playing "fair" while they re-write the "rules" as they need to.

Odds are, OM-drug addict will snag your W back into the affair when he feels motivated to do so.

She's willing to give HIM another chance.

She will soon have the reserves to be able to begin right where they left off (partly thanks to you caretaking her when she was experiencing nasty consequences of her poor choices)

Have you ever been to Al-anon? Go, introduce yourself as a newcommer, tell your story. You'll get a clearer picture of what YOU are doing incorrectly while trying to be a loving husband.

I know you want to love her, take care of her, protect her, keep her from harm .... your motives are those of a GOOD MAN ..... your methods will backfire. Go to Al-anon and tell your story.

Pep

<small>[ July 17, 2003, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

He is calling hte house again. He has someone call and then he takes over. I guess it is time for plan B. I have no reserses left. None. In three weeks I plan to move out. Let her deal with the kids and the house and the bills. I can't do all that and deal with the A. I'm about to get fired for performance and I have to get away.

Since we are on different shifts I can see the kids M-F for as long as I want without having to contact her at all. She will let me have them on weekends as much as I want I'm sure. If not I can still get them for several hours before she gets up.

I really don't see any other choice at this point. The A needs to explode and it nnever will while they have only the good and none of the bad. I can't plan A with him calling. I LB every day. I cry ,yell and give altermatims(sp) every day. It's time for it to end.

Get legal advice FIRST!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Get legal advice FIRST!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really no need to. If she wants to file D she can, I won't contest. C/S is pretty straightforward in this state. We have no joint credit. I will remove myself from the Joint checking.

I just wish there was another way. But I don't see it. Got to use the tools there are.

Hurting,
DO get legal advice first. If YOU move out, that might affect the outcome of C/S etc.,in case of an eventual divorce.

In my opinion, if anyone moves out it should be her. She has not lived up to her agreement of no phone calls to or from OM. She needs to fully feel the effects of her decisions with no further rescue from you.

Do you think the kids would be safe with your wife if you moved out and left them with her? Especially since the OM would probably slide his slimy self right in your home instead of continuing renting a room?

She is taking advantage of you bigtime and disrespecting you. Don't allow it anymore and don't leave your home and kids with her. Try the 180 approach and don't be so available for her.

Sorry if this sounds blunt, I'm in a hurry and your W just makes me so <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> !

{{{{{{{{{{Hurting & Kids}}}}}}}}}}}}

There is another alternative to you moving out and that is for BOTH of you to move out. What I mean is that if you are renting, find another house or apartment and then give your 30 day vacate notice. Sometimes, not always, moving the family to another place can be a therapeutic experience.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In three weeks I plan to move out. Let her deal with the kids and the house and the bills. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">hurting,

If care one iota about your kids you will not leave that house without a legally binding parenting schedule in place. You may think that she will just "let" you see the kids whenever you want. That may be so now but that could all change.

What happens when OM man moves in with her and then decides he doesn't want you coming around. He doesn't want you calling. He doesn't want you disturbing HIS Girl. To him YOU are the OM.

You are giving up the castle and letting him take the throne. The worst part is that your kids don't have a choice. You are the only stable parent that they have right now and you are considering leaving them with your wacky W and the OM. What kind of love and affection will they receive then.

I agree that Plan B is the way to go. Letting her move back home without a NC agreement was just allowing the A to come into your home again. You are right back where you started.

I know you are frustrated with the whole situtation but I hope you will reconsider staying put for now. Send her packing instead.

In a strange sort of way, she may actually find it an attractive quality for you to kick her [censored] to the curb. It sure did not turn her off when the OM did it. By being so accomodating to her every whim you may actually be LBing.

If you are serious about leaving then consult with an attorney. You may not always be a husband but you will always be a parent. You owe it to your kids to have a parenting schedule in place so that they don't have to worry when they will see you again. You certainly cannot count on your W to be cooperative or honest.

jmho
ba109

hurting, you should not leave your home. The person who is having the affair should leave. Nor should you leave your children in the hands of your W and the OW. Do you want him in your home doing drugs with your W? Please start standing up for yourself and your kids. Your kids are depending on you to protect them from all this garbage.

Ok people it's been a wild 4 days. WW could not return to work thursday due to tendonitis. Would be off for at least 1 more week. I offerd to take her to her moms since they didn't get to spend much time together. Also her aunt from there wanted to see her pretty bad.
We go up Friday and have a pretty good day and evening.

Sat AM I get a call from my brother. He has gone to feed cats and our house is a wreck. Someone has ransacked the entire first floor. Bookcases turned over TV on floor, every drewaer and cabinet emptyed onto floor.

There is a note typed on one of the computers asking if we had a good weekend. Telling me I should not take her out of town as "she os mine" A lot of nasty thinks to me and threats to her about he is tired of waiting and she needs to come back before he comes and gets her. Signed with just his first initial.

Of course she doesn't believe it is him or someone sent by him. She calls him and he apears to have an airtight alibi. Even though 1 thing he says to me is almost an exact copy of what he had passed on to me through my brother 1 week ago. She finishes the call by telling him she loves him.

I convince her to stay out of state. She is to decide without anyone pressuring her what she wants to do. Go to him. Work with me(and I explain full NC with letter ,quiting job and all), or moving out on her own. She knows that present situation will not be tolerated any more.

All day sunday we have a good day with her family and Sun night I ask her for the NC letter to giver OM for while she is deciding. She can't(won't) finish it. She wants to come home and see the house. She wants to see something specific in her room and then she will know if it was him or not. But either way she is going back to IL to think. I arrange for the first bus to take her back after our sheduled arrrival home and we arrange for her to be picked up and stay with her mom.

Mon AM (today)at breakfast she remembers that I had hung up the family photo. Want me to call my brother and let her speak to him. She asked the condition of the picture. My head had been ripped off. She informs me she no longer needs to come back to TN. She will stay there and she only has 2 options. Me or alone. If OM calls I'm to tell him she doesn't live here and hang up. She gives me her locker key to clean it out and her Company ID to turn in. So kids and I come home.

I call to tell her we arrived safely and she wanted to know about a couple of things in her room. What she wants appears to be missing. She wants me to search and report on Wed but it appears she is believing it was him or agents of his.

I check the voice mail on the phone and the [censored] has left 1 at 624AM Sat. I guess he was going to leave one ,changed his mind or forgot and forgot to hang up his cell. You can hear papers being torn and things falling, then his voice "You shouldn't have told me where you live." I call WW to tell her. She had listened to it and couldn't make it out, it was low and I know the speakers where she is are crap. I told her to listen again at a better comp tomorrow. She agrees. She also tels me not to leave kids alone at all in house. I had already figured that out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

1 hour later he calls to talk to her. I tell him she not here he wants me to pass a message. He is returning to west TN and wants to talk to her bad. Some nerve huh? Tells me he don't know what happened at my house but he would never do that, and that I should talk to my brother to see what "really" happened. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . I hang up.

So where we stand.
WW trying to figure out what she wants.

I getting money together to move to IL with kids in our own house.

WW will have to agree to all points in a rec plan and stay at her moms until I'm convinced she is serious before I will let her move in with us.

She has a safe place now so I don't have to knuckle under just because she is mother of my children.

What a weekend.

Did you call the cops and get this guy arrested? He is a psycho and you and your children ARE NOT SAFE. This man broke into your home and I have no doubt he would do it again. Do you have a gun?