Yes, it sounds about right.

Do you know about our son? I rarely share this much about my situation here.... but here's a little about our journey.....

We adopted him age 3 years. Foster home kid. Born to a heroin addict. Couldn't talk at age 3. Diapers at age 3. All baby teeth were decayed due to neglect and apple juice in a bottle at night. He was a mess.

We busted our buns "saving" this kid. Had all his teeth capped by a $$$ specialist, so he could learn to talk with teeth (instead of having all his teeth pulled, like they tried to do in foster care) Took him to speech therapy twice a week. Practiced speech every day. Took him to the park and had him use swings and a slide for the very first time in his life. Trained him to use the potty after about 6 months. Took him places like children's museums, zoo, the beach. Opened up his shy and frightened eyes to an entirely better world.

And, about 10 months later, we got the call from the state child protective services asking would we also take his 8 month old sister. Also born with heroin, but was being cared for by a wonderful foster family. She came to us happy, curious and healthy. She didn't have her brother's early history of neglect and multiple foster homes and she was/is a very easy kid to raise.

When our son was in the first grade, I told my H that I was going to work part time so I could better manage all the things I had to do for the kids without having them stay in day care and after school care until 6 PM. I did not POJA this decision. I handed MY decision to my H as a done deal ...and he better just get used to it. He also better amp up his income, because I was going to cut mine by half. End of discussion. Start of marriage trouble.

When our son was about 8 years old, I didn't know it, but Mr. Pep was having an affair. His A was a "soulmate" affair, and it lasted 18 months. But, my point has little to do with the A ... it's about our son. H ended the A and we began our recovery .... finding our way back to each other.

When son was in 5th grade, he began to be a problem. Fighting. Swearing. Depressed. He had superficial cuts on his wrist. He said it was from sports or tree climbing. I took him to a shrink. He got better on anti-depressant.

Then, on Christmas that year, son went wild. He refused to do as asked. Began to throw things around the house. When we tried to catch him, he slid underneath his bed, then he was able to actually lift the bed up off the ground while under it, and he bounced the bed around. His eyes had a dark dull look. He was crazy. We called the police. They took him to the hospital. From there he was admitted to the pediatric psych hospital, on Christmas eve. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Christmas morning, I was a mess. We tried to open presents, but the BMX racing bike was just about the lonliest thing I ever saw. I called the hospital. The MD would not be in for many hours. I told my H that we HAD to get him out that morning. We drove to the hospital, and took him out AMA.

That was hospitalization number one. Hospitalization number eight was this February. You can fill in the blanks between those numbers with various efforts to help our son.

Our son was placed into a residental treatment facility in Utah 3 months ago (2 weeks before his 17th birthday). On admission, he hated our guts. He refered to us as "You people" .... and threatened that if we did this "to him" .... he'd never speak to us ever again.

Just recently, he's starting to make a turn. he is sweet, like he used to be. He laughs. he talks about college and a future.

Here is my point Hurting ......

I am sooooo tempted to (once again) rescue him from his situation. A situation he earned based on his choices. I am in the position of being the most danger to him when I see his early improvement .... I want to bring him home where I can love him again.

The way I can really love our son is this ...

Leave him where he is. Allow him to work this out without my "loving" help.

It is so difficult for me. I am a nurse practitioner. I "help" people. I get paid pretty well to make decisions that affect people who need help .... but here, in my own family ..... I have to let it go and trust that God will do this, without my interference.

I support your Plan-B. Now you know why.

Love,

Pep

<small>[ July 26, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Thanks all and especially you Pepper. That was a touching story and I can see the simularities about choices and can't always help those we love.

I will get a session with SH before labor day and work out the "Letter" and all. For now I will plan like she is never coming back except for dating of course. I'm gonna be the best dad I can and whoever eventually comes into my house will get a much better H and F than I used to be.

Well it's been a week since I left WW with MIL. She has 2 jobs a house and seems to be moving on. She hasn't called to speak to the kids at all. 3 of them called her last Wed but the oldest hasn't spoken to her yet.

I can't believe that she doesn't want to speak with them. I have unlimited long distance and so it only costs her 1 minute to call and ask for a call back.

The kids have not asked to call her either. I have reminded them 3 or 4 times that they can call anytime and they just say ok.

Should I try to get them to call her? I don't want them to completely lose their mother.

hurting,

I came to the conclusion after being seperated from my daugher that kids don't need to call every night or even every week. They just need to know that they can. My kid calls when she wants something. Other than that she is comfortable knowing that she is going to see me in a few days. I called her every night in the beginning until I realized that she didn't need for me to do that. She just needed to know that I was still there and available to her.

Just let your kids know that they can call their mom if they want to. That's good enough for them. Hopefully their mom will be receptive to them calling on a rare occasion. It's your WW's responsibility to call them and maintain that connection. Try not to instill guilt on the kids if they opt not to call her regularly.

ba109

<small>[ July 29, 2003, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

Another day without a call either way. I guess your right ba109. I'll just keep reminding them they can call. Should I remind WW she can too. I just can't believe that she is not calling the kids.

I'm 90+ % sure WW is in contact with OM again. We talked this evening and I asked why she hadn't called as she has a calling card. She replied it was used up. I said she only talked a couple of minutes on it with me and she replied Do you think your the only one I have to talk to.

Since she is living in the middle of her family the only 2 houses she has to call long distance are me and OM. None of her other friends here have a phone, hence the 90 % sure.

She did talk with kids tonight. Oldest daughter asked her why we couldn't live in same town as her. WW was honest. Told her she didn't want to live in same town as me. Made DD cry. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I'm gonna have to go to B wether SH thinks I should or not. Every time I speak with WW I love her less. If I don't go no contact soon I will just say the H*** with it.

hurting,

Do you have an appt with Steve H? I agree it sounds very much like you would be ripe for Plan B. Additionally, she is extremely destructive and SH does recommend Plan B in those cases. Have you given any thought to your Plan B letter, including the conditions for return, financial arrangements and visitation arrangements? Also, have you considered contacting an attorney to start seperation and custody arrangements for the kids?

I have to add that your recent post is one of the most rational and clear thinking posts I have seen you post. It appears that the physical seperation is allowing some semblance of sanity to come back in your life and you are starting to see things more clearly. Am I reading this right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>hurting,

Do you have an appt with Steve H?

In 2 weeks. Thats as soon as I could afford it.

Have you given any thought to your Plan B letter, including the conditions for return, financial arrangements and visitation arrangements?

Not much yet. Will have a draft ready for Steve

Also, have you considered contacting an attorney to start seperation and custody arrangements for the kids?

Yes, I want a seperation and temp custody before I go up there Labor Day. It is the only way I will feel safe leaving the kids with her.

I have to add that your recent post is one of the most rational and clear thinking posts I have seen you post. It appears that the physical seperation is allowing some semblance of sanity to come back in your life and you are starting to see things more clearly. Am I reading this right?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are. I feel much calmer than before. I'm glad you haven't left. I do try to pay attention to you gals, I just get nuts sometimes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurting12:
I think you are. I feel much calmer than before. I'm glad you haven't left. I do try to pay attention to you gals, I just get nuts sometimes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't you even worry about me, I went off the farm momentarily. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I am glad you are starting to feel better, it sure does come through in your post.

<small>[ July 29, 2003, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm gonna have to go to B wether SH thinks I should or not. Every time I speak with WW I love her less. If I don't go no contact soon I will just say the H*** with it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hurting,

I agree. Your WW is in self destruct mode. You can't help her. Your continued efforts to maintain a link to your WW are only serving to break your spirit.

She is of course still (not again) talking to the OM if not seeing him too. That hasn't changed. This is still a very young A. Even if you Plan B the A could last months. Be prepared for that and stand your ground. Good luck.

ba109

Have a great weekend with your kids. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Relax and take a break from all this mind-boggling mess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Melody,

Thought I was feeling better too then went into a 3 day funk. Really really depressed. Felt much better today and was able to have a good time with the kids. Big day planned for tomorrow. Won't be fun though. It's time to get em ready for school, clothes and supplies for 4 will take a while. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Tooold, I wished I could take a weekend off without thinking about it. Don't guess it will happen for a while yet. At least I'm smart enough now not to call WW when I'm depressed though.

As my MIL said to me a couple of days ago... Hopefully next year we will look back on this time as a bad dream.

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: hurting12 ]</small>

Not much to report. Spoke with WW yesterday. She seems happy. Doesn't seem to miss me or the kids at all. She still has never called them. I'm calling for them every couple of days or so and they talk about 3 minutes each.

WW doesn't really have anything to say to me. I try to talk about things and just get one word responses. I'll keep trying. No R talk or questions, just small talk.

Hi hurting, I hope you are feeling better. It is pretty normal to go through ups and downs now. I wonder how your W would act if you started detaching from her? Maybe avoid talking to her on the phone? I think she is probably still either in touch with OM or is in withdrawal.

Are you getting the kids all ready for school?

They are all ready for school. It starts here a week from tomorrow.

I am positive she is in contact with OM again and really would not be suprised if he is up there with her.

I don't want to back away from her on the phone. I only get 2-3 minutes every other day as it is. I keep it light. No R talk and no leading questions. Inquire about her health, her job and such. Update her on how everyone is doing here.

She read just far enough in SAA to know what plan A and B are. I should probably include in the "B" letter something along the lines of " I won't be able to wait as long as is suggested in SAA" otherwise she will figure she has 18 months before I move on.

hurting,

She still has you on a string. You're still not in Plan B. You haven't given her a letter and you are still in contact. She is still contacting the OM.

Where are you at in this triangle? You have to ask yourself that. I don't think that you are calling her every few days for the kids sake as much as for your own sake.

Can you imagine how it must feed her ego for her to know that you cannot break contact with her. She knows you can't and she is feeding off of it. Your contact with her keeps the A alive. So long as she knows you're still in the triangle she can still hang onto the OM.

jmho
ba109

No I'm not in "B" yet. The plan is to do it on labor day weekend. Her last memory of me right now is not the one I want to leave her with. Also we are still working out the visitation and I need to take her her things as I told her I would.

At the end of that weekend I will give her the letter and go NC.

Hey guy .... what's cooking?

Hoping you're OK.

Pep

Yeah! You know we worry when we don't hear from you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I would have already bumped you up but couldn't find your thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Between now and Labor Day, throw her some 180's (lovingly, of course) and let her do the calling. She's all wrapped up in self right now.

{{{{{Hugs to you and kids}}}}}

Hey all. I hadn't realized it had been so long since I was here.

MIL confirmed for me that OM and WW are living together up there. She has went to visit and there he was. MIL held her temper this time and only refused to speak to him.

WW has yet to call the children once. I waited a week this last time and then called for them. I only spoke to her for less than a minute. She is not open to anything right now anyways so why waste the effort. I was polite and informed her of what the kids had been up to.

She asked for the kids for part of Christmas vacation so I guess I'm goona have to file before then so as to get a temp custody order in place. No way I will leave them with her in another state without that in place.

Don't know if I'm even going up there for labor day since OM is there. We will not have any time together anyways. I can just send the Plan B letter with SIL. She drives over the road and comes through here often.