I just realised that you can change the title of a thread ... so no need to make up a new thread for a different topic!!! Have included significant posts below, and will just add to this one thread from now on.

How Can Plan A Possibly Help?
Is WH Living Out Someone Else's Script?
Now up to "Trial Separation"
Reply to WH's Letter in Plan B?
Plan B for 2 weeks, WH wants to Talk
Replied to WH in Plan B, think it went OK
Discovery of Porn Addiction??
Just Wanting all of this to Stop
WH tests Plan B for 5th time
A Moment of Clarity
WH Sends a Birthday Present
What do you make of this? More fog babble?

I am a bit of a mess.

I am in Plan B - now in Week 10.

I phoned WH's best friend B last night, and told him all about the affair. He works with WH, had an inkling about what was going on, but had only been told half truths by WH. WH has not introduced OW as his girlfriend, and has been telling all who ask that she lives with her partner. Needless to say, my husband's friend B was stunned. I don't think he believed me for about the first 5 minutes, then he started to piece some things together, eg

*OW brought WH a HUGE birthday cake to his workplace last yeat that raised a few eyebrows. WH refused to take my homebaked carrot cake in(which they love each year!!!)

*She has been visiting him @ work

* B also told me about an earlier suspected affair with a female co-worker. WH and this woman would leave work together on Fridays for drinks. WH always told me he was going to the pub with B. B says he and WH only went to the pub on a handful of occasions, but most of the time it was WH and the female co-worker.

* WH has spread it around that I am shunning him, conveniently leaving out the Plan B detail about his continued contact with OW.

I was a very busy girl ...... I also rang WH's mother (my MIL) whom I haven't spoke to since DDay +10. MOre lies from WH, including
"Claire just shut me out of her life and won't talk to me" (only 1/2 truth - conveniently leaving out the bit about NC with OW.

MIL angry about me talking to the vicar who married me (WH's uncle) because she said it created trouble in their family.

MIL confirmed that she is e-mailing OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Says it is between her and OW to maintain a correspondence. Says that OW is keeping her informed of WH's activities and also talking about herself - introducing herself.

I asked MIL how she thinks she will handle meeting OW when MIL + FIL visit in Sept. MIL says she wants to see what OW is like - see if she is a good enough person for her son!!!!!!!!!

Really feel disappointed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Can't believe how my inlaws have let me down.

E-mailed her a copy of the plan B letter I sent to WH. Explained that I am not communicating with WH because he continues to keep his relationship with OW going. I asked MIL how she would deal with an affair situation with her husband, and how she would want to be treated by her inlaws. She basically said I am lucky they are still talking to me!!!!!

I am feeling kicked in the head. Really awful. I have nothing to lose from here on.

On the plus side of things, WH's friend, B, said that OW was F***ing ugly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But I knew that already

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: Enigma ]</small>

ClaireL,

You know the truth, he also know the truth and HE knows the truth ... that is enough.

Don't let him hurt you ...
Don't play into his game ...
DON'T SNOOP or INQUIRY ABOUT HIM ...

This is where plan B is usefull to protect your sanity ... get ready to move on w/ or w/o him.

-rh-

DON'T SNOOP or INQUIRY ABOUT HIM ...


Does phoning his friend and my MIL qualify as snooping or inquiring? I just wanted to tell the world the truth!!

I have been consoling myself with he knows the truth/ I know the truth ... but I am so sick of the lies and disrespect.

A thought just occurred to me: My MIL is enabling the affair by continuing a dialogue with OW. I really want to Plan B MIL too. Anything wrong with this idea???

Heeeeelp! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ July 21, 2003, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: ClaireL ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Does phoning his friend and my MIL qualify as snooping or inquiring? I just wanted to tell the world the truth!!

I have been consoling myself with he knows the truth/ I know the truth ... but I am so sick of the lies and disrespect.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ClaireL,

Yes, you are inquring on him ... it is only will hurt you. The only news you want to receive is from him willing to work on M otherwise don't. If people tells you about him ... change the subject, I know it is hard. If people ask you info, teel the fact. Your actions clearly not healty for you, you are reacting his actions. You let him hurt you at this point and you need to stop it. I only listen to my ExW/OM news but I don't inquiry or ask ... sometime I just laugh it off and don't enagage on the gossiping.

One consolation for you ... his A won't last, only 5% chances and worst there is almost impossible to have fullfiling R based on A. My ExW paints a happy picture with OM ... my 2D told me that mommy is not happy. Latest episode OM has a bruise ribs ... consistent with physical madness where ExW had a black eye and OM had a teeth mark on the back of his arm (2x times within 1yr). The guilt will be the wall between them if he has any. If he doesn't have guilty feeling, you know that he would do it again to her. You don't need to prove anything to anyone. Let his actions speak from him ... and if your freinds or family are blind or ignorant ... you should be glad to know who are your "true" freinds and families that you could count on.

My ExW kept my 2D on Fathers day to "teach" me lesson. (She didn't pick 2 D for Mothers Day for whatever excuse she has and blame it on me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , telling eveyone that I kept them). I did not react and I did not enagage ... I only told my 2 D that everyday with them is Fathers Days to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . She makes a fool of herself and putting a wedge between her & 2 D. My 2 D knew the truth !. WS's script is to justify their actions ... and make themself as a victim and make you as the villain. Sit back and watch ... it is like watching soap opera on TV,you could cry & get mad but you can't be or don't want to be in it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

In Plan A, WS has full control of 'coaster ride. In Plan B, BS basically tells WS no more 'coaster ride and let WS continues the ride with whoever wants to (OP & others). If you are still in 'coaster and not leveling off, you have work to do. You have to take control back (life). He is not the center no more, you are !. He hurt you onced, don't let him hurt you again and again with his actions.

-rh-

Redhat,

Thank you for pointing out that I am still on the roller coaster ride. Maybe that is why I am feeling so miserable and sick at present. What do you think of my Plan B letter to inlaws?

I think I should Plan B them also, let them know that I think their action/treatment of me is not acceptable. I was going to send copies to WH, OW and inlaws.

BTW, is it Redhat because of Linux? My WH was right into Linux ...

Dear FIL and MIL,

This is a hard letter for me to write, but I have to do it. Thank you so much for talking with me on Monday (Sunday your time). It was a difficult conversation, as I was so sure that you had locked me out of your family. I was relieved to find out the truth, that you had been thinking of me, but had been experiencing "technical difficulties" which resulted in a lack of communication. I did so much enjoy being a part of your family, but now the hard part ....

On Monday, I thought a lot about the conversation I had with you. Especially the part about the ongoing dialogue that you maintain with OW I appreciate the fact that you are so concerned about WH and that she is helping you by keeping you informed about him. However, I find it hard to accept that you would willingly participate in forming a relationship with this woman. I am sure that she has been most respectful and hasn't bad-mouthed me etc ..... She can't really afford to if she is trying to start a relationship with my inlaws. It is just too hard for me to maintain a relationship with you MIL and FIL, knowing that you are welcoming this woman into your family in my place.

I will miss you. I love you as much as my own parents. (Maybe more!!) I don't want to lose you as my family, and I am not turning my back on you, I am merely protecting myself from more pain and hurt.

As I said to WH, I don't want this woman to be in my life, and I say the same thing to you too. I would appreciate it if you didn't contact me while you still intend to form/maintain a relationship with OW.

Please reply to this e-mail to at least acknowledge that you have received it.

Love from Claire.

<small>[ July 21, 2003, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: ClaireL ]</small>

Good letter, Claire but don't expect them to respond. They probably will settle for being enablers and if so, that OW is a shrewd one. They had better lock up their valuables.

Who knows what that OW can do within arms reach.

You are wise to keep yourself at a safe distance. That way when they find stuff missing, they won't blame you.

take care,
L.

What do you think about cc-ing it to:
OW and also WH???

Hello ClaireL

Just when we think it can not get worse... IT DOES! I mean, what's up with your in laws? how they do that to you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Well I can bet that will taught you some of the value they got into your H right?
At this times YES I would advice as redhat relax, take some popcorns and enjoy the movie... the movie is the ride and you are looking at it from the outside!

It seems all you support system, at least from H's side (in laws) are also in the fog!!! And by now I beleive you know that there is not much we can do to fix that. Yes I know is crap to be there but again... since you can not do nothing about it just work on yourself!

You are young enough to start another life! And although you wanted it to be with H... lets be clear on this.. this is not the man you wanted to spend your life with right?

About the email I don't like this line...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Please reply to this e-mail to at least acknowledge that you have received it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I mean they are in the fog! forget their answer they will receive it relax!

And I don't see your point in sending it to OW.

Take care

Thanks Matilde. I sent it to the inlaws only. No doubt they will tell their son. Probably even forward it to him. Not within Plan B for me to send anything to him so, I won't do so. As for OW, well you are right. What would it achieve for me to send it to her? Give her more to complain to WH about.

They say they don't condone the affair with her, but actions speak louder than words. The message they give to OW loud and clear is that she is accepted in their house. They are so stupid!!

Claire,

Don't waste any postage on OW (not even an e-mail). She ain't worth it.

L.

Claire,

These people are exactly what their names imply, inlaws. They are being loyal to their son even when he is immoral, etc. Come on???? What type of good parent does that, condones adultery????

I would stay clear of the whole mess, obviously they are morally vile. I apologize for sounding blunt here, but my inlaws are a real sore thumb for me, my fil is a super enabler, and I am sick and tired of him.

Find peace and happiness within you for now, and wait for affair to die eventually. If you withdraw and continue to plan b, then wh will be forced to get needs met from this slime of an ow... gee that will be difficult, right? They will eventually fight and explode/implode.

Hope to you, Honey

I got a reply to my e-mail from my MIL:

"By the way, FIL says that I was wrong in starting a friendship with OW. In hindsight you may both be right"

Also, they are going to try to help me to get the legal separation issues sorted by writing a letter to WH.

MIL also says that she understands much better now why I HAD to drop communication with WH.

I think my gamble paid off here. This whole process is teaching me a helluvalot about sticking up for myself standing up for what is right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Remember to be gracious. They are admitting they were wrong. Some people never do that.

The inlaws are out of the fog. E-mailed WH and also cc-ed to me:

"If a separation is what you really want then you will need to communicate with Claire honestly!I have had a long phone call from Claire. She had not received any of my e-mails and thought I had not wanted to have any thing to do with her.

You had also told her I was e-mailing OW and having phone calls and enjoying her very much. This hurt Claire a lot since she thought we were not e-mailing her any more and didn't seem to want to have any thing to do with her. Please do not use Dad or I to hurt Claire, this is not about how we feel about Claire or OW.

This is to do with how YOU feel about Claire.
You are now trying to go on with your life and that is fine, but, you must remember YOU left Claire and on that day you chose not to be married to her. This is the hardest thing you have ever had to do and since Claire had not see it coming, it is hard for her too! For now Claire can not see you coming back and is also going to TRY to move on with out you, if she has too. She has to tidy up one
or two loose ends.

Can you let her know the day you left. She also needs you to sign-off on the lease of the house she is in, as she will be leaving there. She has also asked for her wedding ring back, and
you have said you would give it back, and you should!

There are one or two other things she needs you to do and you know what they are. She has told me she does not want a divorce and will not be putting in for it. Also she does not wish to talk to you about personal things while you are still seeing OW.(And Dad and I think that that is only fair. If you are with OW there is no way you could possibly be thinking of getting back with Claire.)
BUT, these are things that you need to take care of, it is the business side of a marriage and since she is thinking of leaving. I guess you know you should take care of it? "

I guess they did come through for me after all. They are no longer the terrible inlaws I thought that they had become. We'll see what his response is.

I am not holding my breath. He is probably still fog ridden and will respond angrily as if they are interfering. All I really care about is getting away from all of this.

<small>[ July 22, 2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: ClaireL ]</small>

ClaireL,

I missed your threads, I was busy working from home while become Mr.Mom too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ClaireL:
<strong>What do you think of my Plan B letter to inlaws?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I am against it in general but it turns out good for you. It proves that you know your IL better.

You should sent a copy to OW per Plan B letter as prescibed. You will be a threat to her ... and chances of OW LB'ed WH are big. Your WH might/might not show it to OW. If he doesn't ... it would creates questions between them. If he does, OW would see extra sentence that would make her LB'ed to WH.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>BTW, is it Redhat because of Linux? My WH was right into Linux ...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeap, the underdog and won't go away easy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

You always have control over your reaction to WH's actions ... specially in plan B. It forces you not to engange at all.

-rh-

-rh-

Actually, I am deciding now to go dark. Real Dark.

No more contact with anyone associated with WH and OW, unless of course the inlaws contact me, but if that happens, I will keep them off the topic of WH.

Inlaws letter to WH was greeted with a LOT of hostility and more lies from WH. He is now calling me manipulative, a liar and saying that I only contacted them for my own purposes and that I had ignored them 'til now (completely illogical given that they TOLD him that the lack of contact was due to them mis-addressing their e-mails!). He is twisting and distorting the truth beyond belief. Every little thing I said to my inlaws which they relayed in their letter to him was twisted and turned by WH.

The inlaws are trying to do the right thing, and for now I have them in my corner. However, this won't last. WH will keep repeating his lies until they eventually believe them.

And then there's WH's meddling friend, M. The man who ended his first marriage via an exit affair, and then married a woman who had done the same. He is WH's friend, confidante and advisor. The only one outside of the family who knows what is going on. He is bitter about his own mistakes and seems to be filling WH's head with rubbish about me and my motivations WHICH ARE SIMPLY NOT TRUE. Friend M himself believes that the truth is simply a perception (his exact words in a conversation some time ago)

Direct quote from M: "As she is a game player, she will not have changed the colour of her spots at all - she had the chance to undergo a major change in her behavioural tool set but threw it away when she started to solely blame OW for your break up" I am not a mindgames person!! I never have been! OW leaves me for dead in this arena.

M has read the Plan B letter, so it is clear that he is not describing me...... I think he is describing his XW here. All along he has been telling my WH that I am just like his XW. WH doesn't know which way is up, and is just letting this man fill his head with rubbish. Puts my Plan A out the window as long as he is under this man's influence.

This situation just sucks. M is a truly evil man. Unfortunately WH has dug himself into a position where this is the only "friend" he has, apart from OW.

Although I have legal issues to get sorted, all this seems to do is wind WH up even more and make him fire back at me.

Is my WH saying unusually nasty things about me? Or do they all come up with similar mean/untrue statements?

Do they usually get this angry? What does the anger signify? How long will it last?

So the answer is to go completely dark. Deep covert Plan B Ops. For my own protection, and to stop drawing enemy fire.

Your husband's behavior is typical when his lies are NO LONGER believed by family/friends. He is upset because he can no longer have his parent's live in "FOGLAND" with him. He is being told to take responsibility for his actions and to be accountable for his actions, he doesn't want to. It is easier to BLAME the BS for the WS choices. Going to a DEEP PLAN B is what is best to protect the love you do have for him.

I realise how absurd his lies are, but as for people not believing them ..... well I really do worry that people will start to believe what he says. That said, I know the truth, God knows the truth and God has the last say at the end of all this anyway. So I shouldn't worry about what everyong thinks. I am kidding myself if I think I can get help from anyone else (inlaws, friends) in helping sort this mess out. It simply comes down to WH and I in the end.

I am so Pi$$ed off by this stupid friend of WH's. He has a lot of influence over WH, he is feedingWH a script and there it NOTHING I can do about it. I just hope that WH comes to his senses about this man (assuming my perception of things is accurate and I am not the manipulative game player which Friend M has pegged me for)

That is why Deep Covert Plan B is necessary. Gives him nothing to comment on, disables his defences, defeats the lies.

Why not? Many people are going to live in Fogland with my own H.

What M says doesn't make much sense. Why does being a "game player" (which only means you are involved in the situation, by the way, and does not necessarily mean you are playing mind games) mean you can't "change your spots"? Many game players do change their spots. All of this nonsense may be giving your H the fantasy that he is living in a guerilla operation where each manouever is complicated and important -- a military strategy.

I'm with you. Go dark. Visit your in-laws and be pleasant. Take them a basket of cookies. Don't discuss H or OW. Don't give M and H anything to feed on.

Sometimes discussing the BS is what keeps the A partners feeling real and very important.

ClaireL,

WH is not happy with his current life and he tries to sick it on you. If you "go dark" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , he would have no one to blame but OW & himself. He tries to convince the whole world that you are the bad one and to convince himself that A is justified. You know what, you could only beleive soo much your own [censored]. When he is alone ... when he see himself in the mirror ... I do beleive he sees hurt & lost soul.

-rh-