Sorry for the rambling ahead of time.

My marriage hasn't been stable for a long time. I knew my wife had cheated on me in the past and we worked through it. (without marriage builders-because I didn't know about it). I recently found out that she had another A while I was gone. She gave me the website address to help me cope - her words. I know I have alot of issues to deal with. I suspected she cheated on me again and I confirmed it with her. There are Caller ID numbers on the phone and I found pictures in a dresser drawer. The part I'm having the hardest time dealing with right now is the pictures. They aren't explicit or anything, but I don't know what to do with them. Should I throw them away and tell W that I found them and threw them out. Should I ask her to throw them away? I feel like covering my rear in case things get really bad and keep a copy for court evidence if I need to, but I'm not a vengeful person and I'm really confused. My wife told me not to get hope when she sent me the website, but Í care for her to much (I am not the perfect husband I have made my share of Love Busters) to quit and give up hope.

God I feel so exhausted, confused and scared. I have started to talk to her using some of the things I've learned from Marriage Builders, but each time we have one on one time for discussion she gets emotionally upset because she knows how she has hurt me but wants me to let her go so that she can work on her problems by herself. She also says that she feels guilty because she knows how much I care for her and love her, but the affection and love I try to give her cause her to feel guilty since she feels she can't return my love. She also says she doesn't know what she wants.

Mike,

This is all normal. Her saying she doesnt know what she wants is normal. If you follow my odyssey on this website over the past year, you will see many similarities.

First off, you MUST get smart! Start reding, counseling, etc. Understand what got you here...and more importantly, how you will get out of it. Understand WHO your wife is now, and the only way that she has a chance to get herself back.

Post here with questions, problems, and even good advances.

Is your WW still at home? Is she in contact with OM? These are the first two questions I have.

Again, read Surviving and Affair, Torn Assunder, Love Must Be Tough, and others. Read this website. Follow some threads one here from beginnign to successful end. Watch how things went and what reactions worked. And more importantly, what things didnt work.

I look forward to hearing more about the two questions above so you can start formulating your plan.

In His arms.

My WW is still at home. We have a 4 year old daughter. I don't know if she is still in contact with OM. I finally got a clue when she sent me this website yesterday. I've been reading like crazy and I understand everthing that I've read so far. We have been married for 5 years next week and together for 6 years.

Mike,

Got to get some sleep tonight. Will post back tomorrow. Keep reading in the interim.

In His arms.

Click on the link in my signature line for a systematic approach to recovery.

What should I do about these pictures? I feel like I should confront her.

I put the pictures back in the drawer but put a copy of them in a sealed envelope and placed it safely away. I don't know what I'm going to do when I tell her I found the pictures. I am not going to get mad or angry or outburst. She already knows how hurt I am and it won't do me any good.

I took all of the pictures on our computer that I found and put them in a compressed file and made it so that she couldn't open it. I didn't delete the file yet because I think that if she cares for me and wants to save our marriage she will delete the file herself. But, I made it so that she can't have access to those tacit memories. I'm starting to formulate a Plan A on the fly because I feel pressed for time. I don't know why I feel that way, I know she depends on me for financial support and if I move directly to a Plan B she has absolutetly no where to go except to her father's house four states away. I haven't told anyone in our family or her family yet, because I wanted to deal with the pictures first. She is supposed to complete the questionnaires with me this morning.

I am bothered about something else. She went out of town last night to a friends (female) house. I asked her if I could trust that she was actually going to that friends house or a OM house. She assured me, of course, that she was going to the female friends house. I want to ask my wife for the phone number to our friends and then call her to see if she actually went. There is nothing that would have prevented my wife from making arrangements to say that she had been there, but I don't think WW would impose that kind of moral guilt trip on someone that is not an extremely close friend. I want to tell WW that the reason I want to call is that I want to restore the trust in our relationship and knowing that she actually went to where she told me would help alot.

I can't read fast enough.

Any thoughts??

Hi Mike, sorry you are here, but it sounds like you came to the right place. You definitely do need to keep the pictures and confront her about it. There is no reason to withhold this information. It sounds like she is having an affair[s] and is using your home as a home base.

There is also nothing wrong with asking for verification of her whereabouts. She is an untrustworthy person who has to rebuild the trust in her marriage. You might just explain to her that, of course, you don't trust her because of her past behavior and it would make you feel better if she were open about her whereabouts. Pretty strange to see a grown woman go spend the night with her girlfriend, though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I didn't delete the file yet because I think that if she cares for me and wants to save our marriage she will delete the file herself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a conflict avoider married to a conflict avoider, which greatly contributed to our problems, this is a CLASSIC case of the type of thinking that contributed to our problems. Tell her what you want and why, and how you feel. Do not expect her to read your mind. Do not expect her to see things your way. You have NO IDEA what those pictures mean to her, how she thinks about them, or if she even remembers they are there.

She called me this morning and asked me if anything was wrong because I had tried to call her last night. I told her that I panicked last night and that I had wanted her to call me before she left. She asked why and I told her that it was because I wanted to talk to her friend. That I needed to know that I could trust her and that she wasn't lying to me. I got the, "Oh God, you've got to be kidding line."

When I got home from dropping D off WW was there already. I told her why I panicked last night, the pictures, she said she was sorry that I found them. That tells me that she knew they were still there. She got mad at me during our conversation and finally said , "Do you (me) know why I like the O?" I told that generically I knew why because he gave her something that I didn't. She got mad again and said that she didn't want to go to counseling, she didn't want to be married, she didn't want to do the questionairres, she said she doesn't love me, doesn't respect me. She said I am not the man she has wanted or needed.

I told her that I know that I had my own problems, some of them being neglect because of work (military), problems with my history (I don't feel too close to my parents or brother), I know that I have forgotten many of the things that she has told me. Alot, of it I feel is because I was trying to deal with my own problems at work and was selfish. I know I need to implement Plan A. I have a feeling that Plan A won't last long though if she doesn't show any signs of wanting to build our marriage back up.

I am thinking about sending the following e-mail to WW. I also want to follow it up with an e-mail with a new pledge (vow) that addresses our problems and the solution. WW is very much in withdrawal. She listened to me talk for about 30 minutes. I could tell that I was upsetting her a little, but I'm not sure she listened too much because she didn't say anything once I started to talk about some very old feelings and actions. She went to lie down when I was finished. I am pretty sure she actually went to see her FF because of the response she gave me from the beginning of our talk when I got home. She saide she went to make candy apples and confectionary for a bake sale because her friend needed help.

E-mail:
I want you to know how I feel. I want you to know that I love you unconditionally. I committed to you a very long time ago and there are no strings attached to my love. We have hurt each other and now is the time to recover from our actions.

We once said these words which I still believe:
I BH take thee WW, to be my wedded wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish till death us do part. According to God’s holy ordinance and thereto I pledge thee my faith.

WW, will thou have this man to be thy wedded husband, to live together in the holiest state of matrimony, will you love him, comfort him, honor and keep him, in sickness and in health, and forsaking all others, keep thee only unto him as long as you both shall live. I Do.

I WW take thee BH, to be my wedded wife to have and to hold from this day forward for better for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish till death do us part.  According to God’s holy ordinance and thereto I pledge thee my faith.

BH will thou have this woman to be thy wedded wife, to live together in the holiest state of matrimony, will you love her, comfort her, honor and keep her, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others, keep thee only unto him, as long as you both shall live?  I Do.

Here's the follow up e-mail I want to send:

My vow to you.

I will always love you unconditionally with due regard for your feelings, I will strive to be unselfish and secure in your love, I will be a friend with all of the time in the world to listen to your problems and to help you in your time of need, I will make every effort to so that you feel proud of me and instill pride in yourself, I will never abandon you when hope is at it's lowest point, I will be respectful of your thoughts and feelings, I will pay attention to you and not be selfish, I will walk hand in hand with you thoughout the trials that lay ahead of us without judgement, fear, or anger, I will share my feelings with you even when I am afraid to do so, I will be faithful to you emotionally, mentally, and physically. I do this with a free mind and a loving heart.

I also know I need to kick in Plan A. I am trying to negotiate with my wife and I know it's difficult. But, I'm not sure when to kick it in as long as were not fighting and screaming while we talk to one another.

Forget the sappy e-mail's for in all likelihood they will only push her further away from you.

Read Cerri's post on what Plan A is and follow it:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a strategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
--

And (more) recently:

--
Plan A is not about being a nice guy. Plan A is about ending the affair.... being a nice guy is part of that, but only part. That's why confronting and exposing are crucial elements of Plan A... and if you're not doing those things then you can't really say that you're doing Plan A.

--------------------
"Those who say they cannot follow the Policy of Joint Agreement are really saying what they want to do is more important than how you (their spouse) feels."
....Willard F. Harley Jr. PhD.

"When your spouse is trying to decide between you and the lover, it's time for Plan B."
...Willard F. Harley Jr. PhD.

Primary Rules for Infidelity
First rule of what to know when your spouse is having an affair:
Your emotions and your instincts will lead you in the wrong direction 99.9% of the time.

First rule of what to do when your spouse is having an affair:
Ignore almost all of what they say they want from you, how they feel about what you are doing to fix the marriage and any talk about the marriage, "being over, get over it."

You cannot base decisions about what to do on either of those things. Neither is objective and both are destined to fail.
....Penny R.Tupy ~ Volunteer MB Weekend Mentor Coach ~ Lifeworks Coaching/Save Your Marriage Central </font><hr /></block....saveyourmarriagecentral.com[/quote]

mike, has it occurd to you that while being in your current emotional state of panick, it's not the best time to be making strategic decisions about how to handle a WW? maybe you should be putting your problem in the hands of a therapist and let a cool objective professional help guide you.

even more important though, you have to learn to listen to what she says...even if much of what comes out of her mouth is foggy talk.

if you had been listening, maybe you might have herd her say that right now she can't stand the clinging nature of your relatinship or your need to confront the problem. that right now your love for her and your need to discuss the relationship makes her feel guilty instead of happy! well if this is the case wouldn't it be wiser to back off and get control over the one person you can; yourself?

understand something, at the moment, your wife and what she is doing is beyond your control...she will do and be who she choses to be and you can't do anything about it! what you feel and think mean less then nothing so why are you trying to reason with her? shouldn't you instead be showing her a calm man who is at least in control of him self, his emotions and his life?

if it were me, i would back off big time. i would be there and i would be civil to her but i would ask NO questions and make NO demands. in fact, i would back off to the point where i would almost be living a pararell but seperate life. not acting cold or mean...just detached from this whole mess that SHE created.

please don't misunderstand. i would let her know that i feel her behavior is inappropriate but i would do it with out censuring her. then i would control everything that i could to make her little love life ( if the affair is still going on) as difficult to live as possible.

take control of finances, baby sitting time you put in, credit cards, cell phones, computer time. just don't make yourself availible to her for her sake of conveience....

AND over night trips out of town to girl friends would be a no no! i mean if you don't stay with the kids then who will take care of them while she's out having fun?

right now she is having everything her own way. if it were me i wrest from her what control over the situation i could. but i would do it with a minimum of overt anger and hostility.

sorry for your problems.
coach

I do agree with many of the things that Coach3530 said.

I have an appointment on monday with a counselor. I actually made it before coach replied because I already felt the need. WW knows I made the appointment, I don't know if it matters or not that she knows about it.

I'm not really sure that I haven't already lost the opportunity to implement Plan A since we've been having problems like this for the last few years. At heart, I feel that Plan B is just over the horizon, but I'm not ready to implement it yet. I have already taken control of the finances. The last time I was home I set up the accounts which she knows exist. While I was gone she set up an account too. We do finally have our finances in control after 4 years of struggling. I know that if Plan B is set in motion that I have my finance is order, but WW does not.

I'm tired and exhausted and I just can't get mad anymore. Yesterday we talked some. It was a nice conversation, no yelling or arguing. Towards the end of the conversation I found myself talking mostly and let the discussion end. WW went to lay down because she had a headache. I wanted to help her feel better so I offered her a massage which she accepted. There were many things about it that made me feel good. But, I don't know if it was a good idea because I enjoyed it and she enjoyed it but I knew it wouldn't change anything. Is that the type of little things that help to rebuild the LB?

I also told myself that I am not going to bring up any discussion about the marriage. I'm not ready to quit in any fashion, but I am concerned that I am not doing the best things that I can for myself and the marriage. If the marriage is going to end, then I want to know that I did the things that I could and that I am happy.

I feel like I am betraying myself because I am planning for a worse case scenario of implementing Plan B, while also trying to work out a Plan A, if it is possible.

Just a quick note, work is hectic...

What worked for me...

A Plan A that included honesty...with myself and with my S about my behavior (my LBs). I apologized for my past actions and began to REALLY change.

Honesty about the A with him and with friends and family. It would eventually come up in conversation because I was so sad and people cared about me.

Honesty about the kind of relationship I wanted and expected...no more withholding the truth and expecting EVERYTHING to be open (phone calls, emails, letters...)

This worked at the time...but like so many cases I've read on here, and in my case, the WS pined for the OP. My H grew more sullen and guilty. Sounds like your WW. Good chance she is still seeing OM. Approach her about new information with LBing (I know, nearly impossible). Make it a perfect M from your end...do no wrong.
Eventually I asked my H to leave, he wanted to live his fantasy. I switched to Plan B (please read about this) and it was VERY effective. He tried to make things happen with the OW, but since the secrets were out in the open, it wasn't as fun (and she wouldn't have anything to do with him).

Find out who her OM are, and expose them. Do they have Ws? Tell the W (you would want to know). What can you change to be a better H. Let her know you are changing, and show her. Then begin to ask her for honesty...but give her room at first, to trust the changes, and to see what she could be giving up...

Hope this helps...