I have a weak grasp of Plan A. That is I think I understand it, but I couldn't repeat it to someone else; and I definitely understand the 180 list.

The problem I'm having is that they seem to contradict one another. I think I feel this way because I know that I want my wife to meet my needs and, having just discovered the 180 list, I know that I want to develop a Plan A but I feel the 180 list is despeately needed now.

Can someone help me understand this better?

Hi Mike. A Plan A has one purpose. It's to separate a spouse from an active affair. You may hear some folks say to use it to raise intimacy....but I don't advise it anymore. Is your wife having an affair?

Here's how Harley describes it:

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.

A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof.

In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.

But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the betrayed spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the wayward spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Mike, I checked out your other thread....and it does seem that you belong in a Plan A. Here's cerri's guidlines as well:

Plan A as Harley meant it to be...

Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
--

--
Plan A is not about being a nice guy. Plan A is about ending the affair.... being a nice guy is part of that, but only part. That's why confronting and exposing are crucial elements of Plan A... and if you're not doing those things then you can't really say that you're doing Plan A.

<small>[ July 24, 2003, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Read or re-read the Plan A links in my signature line link. Plan A is a little hard to grasp, and, in my opinion, not all that well described on this site by Harley, which is why the links in my sig line link include info on Plan A from some posters, instead of just referencing what Harley says. You are under a lot of emotional stress right now, which may make learning harder. The 180 list has more concrete examples, and that can be easier to understand, but they may not fit every situation. Not all of them are compatible with Plan A, either.

Do you really understand what Lovebusters are, and which you are in the habit of doing? Do you understand what EN's are, and which ones your wife got from the OM that you were NOT giving her? If you want your needs met, Plan A will not do that. Plan A is about meeting HER needs, not yours. You will not get your needs met by your wife until she re-commits to your mariage. For her to do that, she needs to know that you will not neglect her, that you will not LB her, and that you know how to care for her. Plan A is about showing her you know how to do that. Not telling her, showing her. If that means doing things 180 degrees differently than you are doing them now, then the 180 list and plan A are compatible.

Lots of 180s are compatible with Plan A. Try to find the ones that are, and don't focus on the ones that are not.

I think I know what my LB's are. I remember her saying things at various times in our M that I've read on here in posts and the concepts that I know for sure were LB's.

I don't know which EN's my wife is getting from the OM. She has said that she won't do the questionnaires and alot of very fog like statements. I believe part of it is her feelings speaking out and the other part is a flag helping me key in on some of the 180 degree issues to deal with.

I know she feels I'm pushing her. After the last few days, I've only been home for a week, I've think I've learned more about her relationship with OM. Part of it from breaking 180 rule #10 Do not spy on spouse. I checked the cell phone records to see what numbers I recognized and which ones I didn't. There were several that kept reappearing frequently and at different times of the day (non-business hours). I don't know who those numbers belong to, but I do know the OM's number and I know how many times she has used her cell to call him. I know it was definitely an EA but I don't know for sure that is was a PA also. Either way in my mind, the effect is the same.

Right now, I feel that the 180 list fits well, so that I can cope and continue on with hope (ryme not intended, but maybe it should by my motto). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
She has said that I'm trying too hard. Outwardly, I might agree that's another reason why I think the 180 list might help me work through my thoughts and be calmer.

I have tried to start doing some of the things Plan A calls for such as trying to meet her needs but not giving in to my taker. I am doubtful about myself right now.

I am not really sure that WW has contacted OM since my return. I haven't and I'm not going to ask. I can check the cell phone records without her knowledge, but isn't that being dishonest and snooping? She doesn't want to have anything to do with me right now but we are still living together in the same home. She wants to stay until she has a job and some money saved and then move out. I don't want to enable her, but I feel the need to back off a tad.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dr Willard Harley (regarding Plan A):

"In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs AFTER the affair has ended."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mike I want you to notice the last part of that paragraph in bold letters, with special emphasis on the word 'AFTER' because many others in the past,like yourself, have been perplexed with how to meet the EN's of a WS when s/he is still having the after even after d-day, but the simple answer is YOU CAN'T. Other than meeting the obvious EN of FS(financial support), it is practically impossible to meet the other EN's that the OM is providing for her because she WON'T allow you to meet those needs (not while she is still involved with the OM anyway). So what can you do? Plenty and it includes avoiding love busters like angry outbursts, selfish demands, dishonesty, and disrespectful judgements as well as exposing her A(affair) to close friends and family.

What's great about the 180 degree list is that if you are able to succesfully implement the vast majority of them, you will be projecting confidence to your WW that despite your love for her, your life will NOT end and that you are more than capable to move on without her if it comes to that. In other words, you will be projecting confidence in yourself and that is a very powerful attractor for BOTH genders.

TooMuchCoffeeMan

Thanks for the replies. Your right about many of the feelings I have. This morning after I cooked D and WW pancakes, I went for a run. I haven't made the time to exercise or run for over a year, since I reported to my new unit. It was so relaxing to get into stride again and just go.

The 180 list is only an example of things that one can do. A person must customize the 180 to their own situation. For example. The 180 says to stop giving gifts. Well that only works if you have been giving gifts all along. If you have never acknowledged your spouse’s birthdays, mother’s days etc. Then do so now could have the desired affect.

One of the major parts of the 180 is to help a person stop being clingy. For example many BS seem to do anything and put up with anything to keep the WS around. They allow themselves to be abuse. Plan A is not about being abused. So a person who is doing this would set some boundaries and keep them… in a loving manner as is necessary in Plan A and in MB’ing for life.

Many BS’s seem to loose site of their own needs and make the WS their entire focus. This is not healthy and will lead to the not so pleasant end to the marriage as a clingy person who does not take care of themselves is not attractive. So the 180 suggests that a BS in this circumstance needs to start to take care of themselves. Schedule some social time with friends, work out, do things that make you feel good. This will not hurt your marriage in any way and can make the WS see you in a better light.

You may want to read the links in my signature block on Plan A, Doormats and Love busters and the one about Carol and the 180.

The 180 does not contradict Plan A. It is not an MB concept but I, and many others, have found that it helps a person do a very good and healthy Plan A. In my case since I am now years (yes years !!!!) into a good recovery. It helps with MB’ing for life too.