People keep saying it will get easier, you will get stronger, etc. But maybe it won't. My sister divorced her H for infidelity, her kids are messed up, and last year her son was murdered, and one of her kids is pregnant by an OM. My sister's kids lived in near poverty when they were growing up (their father was a very wealthy lawyer), and my sister has had an absoulutely miserable life. I think instead of getting better, something like this is far more likely to beget other tragedies down the line. My uncle was married something like 8 times - one of his kids got married at 16 and she and her H had major drug and alcohol problems and the other child disappeared and refused to have contact with his family. Sure there are survivors, but there are far, far, more casualties. Nothing good has come out of this. Perhaps it is better to just accept the fact that I will not be fine, the kids will not be fine, and the best I can hope for is that they won't screw up as badly as their father.

hi nellie,<BR>days like this are really hard, but try not to wallow. There are far more people that not only survive, but thrive!! Sadness and misery surrounds us and we choose the path we will take. It is all about choices.<BR>You will make the right choices to live with peace of mind and goodness in your heart. It is about seeing where you want to be, then getting there. If you want to be finanacially independent, then you will work toward finding and learning about something that will bring you this goal. If you want your children to have sound moral values, then you will show them this through your actions and words. It takes strength of character, whcih you have. And it takes perseverance, which we are all capable of learning. <BR>There are so many times when it would have been easier to lay down and cry for the day, but I needed to go to work to support my kids. There are many times when I would have preferred to read books on marriage recovery but needed to mow the lawn, cook and do laundry!! My kids needed me to be strong, to pull them thru, so I was. You can do this Nellie. DO it for you and for the kids. THere is no reason that your children have to follow the path of others around you. Make a new path for you and for them. Get your goals together, then work toward them. One little thing at a time. It may be as simple as listening to one of them while you cook, but they need that right now, and you need to help them. Helping them through this will help you too!!<BR>Be strong, stay on track!! (((hugs)))<BR>

cl,<BR>Maybe I am wallowing, but unfortunately, it is not just days like this that are hard. It has been 5 months, 150 days like this in a row. Each one is at least as bad than the last. Sometimes as much as 5 minutes goes by without my thinking about it, but not often. I have no hope. He is happy. She is probably a wonderful person, except for the fact that she has no morals. He has got what he wants out of life - money, even if it isn't his. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>THere is no reason that<BR> your children have to follow the path of others around you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe not, but I do not know of any families of divorce where more than a small percentage of the kids ended up in happy marriages. <P>They say that everything works out for the best. So far, every change we have made to our lives, every move, every job change, etc. , since 1993, has worked out for the worse.<P>I am not at all sure the kids need me emotionally speaking. They tell me they are upset, but they don't tell him. Maybe they are just pretending to be upset, because they know I am. They are happily packing to go over to spend the weekend at the OW's, where they don't have chores, get presents, play with expensive toys, learn how to be yuppies. They have already learned that the way to be happy is to do what you want. It is too late to raise them to have morals, when they have already seen how beneficial it is to put yourself first. Even my 18 year old, who tells me that she has no respect for him and doesn't have a father, is willing to go out to dinner with him for her birthday. They will probably sit there and not talk about anything. Only one of the kids lets him know how she feels, the one who won't talk to him. He has said that the other kids seem to be fine. <BR> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited August 20, 1999).]

Nellie,<P>What happens in the future is up to you. Staying in a loveless marriage is arguably worse than moving ahead. The kids will admire you for being strong, and will take heed of your counsel, because they know you know what you are talking about. You will have been there.<P>You have a very bright future, if you choose to move ahead and do so.

BB,<BR>Why are you assuming it is a "loveless" marriage? Right up until the affair started, my H told me he loved me, and acted like he loved me. As a matter of fact, in many ways he still acts like he loves me. <P>This is not just a marriage. It is a family. And no one could argue that it is a "loveless" family.

Nellie,<P>Sorry for presuming the marriage is loveless. The family, of course, would not be loveless.<P>Your husband, however, has other things on his mind now. What he says and what he means might be different. He might have the "sibling" love for you that others have spoken of on this forum and a romantic love for another. He will have to see for himself what he wants. You can only let him know you want to work it out with him and that you love him as much as you do.<P>One question--does he feel that he is a needed component of the family? Or, does he think everyone could get along just as well without him? That can make a real difference in how he views this situation.

No, I do not think he feels needed, except financially. I had worried for several years that he felt extraneous, because he seemed to pull away from the kids long before he became distant from me. So often I felt that it was "him" and "the rest of us". Even when he sorted clothes, he would put his in one pile, and everyone elses in another - he said he couldn't tell them apart, but obviously he could have if he had to.<P>I don't know what happened - when we were both working he was a very involved father - never missed a school play, chaparoned field trips, lay outside the kids' doors till they fell asleep. In the last few years he has done very little with them, even when they ask him. But during most of this period, he still spent a lot of time with me. Even now, when he takes them places, but his interaction with them is very limited. I probably spend more time talking to him even now than he does with all the kids combined. It is like he has no idea what to do with kids anymore.

Nellie,<P>Is there a way to make your H feel more like a needed part of the family than just a financial provider? I could be wrong but he might be searching for someone that needs more of hom than only his ability to provide financial support.<P>He sounds like he is wandering, looking for a feeling of being needed for other things he has to offer. He needs to feel like the family would find it hard to go on without his advice and love.<P>Does this make any sense?

Nellie, I am so sorry that you are feeling this way. But I do understand it. Been to hell and back myself over the years. It hasn't been a pretty life much of the time. But you have to have determination for yourself and the kids. It is so easy to give up. I know because many times I've wanted to. However I believe to a certain extent we can create our own destiny. Email me if you want at LadyLee47@aol.com<p>[This message has been edited by Against the Wind (edited August 20, 1999).]

BB,<BR>When he was here, I tried to encourage him to do things with the kids, but so often he never got around to it, though he had plenty of time to play computer games and even plenty of time to go house hunting with me. He bought a canoe for our daughter, but then only asked her to go canoeing once - he kept waiting for her to ask, and vice versa. I asked him to build some electronics stuff with our son, and he never got around to it. He has mentioned doing a couple of other things with our son in particular, but has never gotten around to it. I desparately wanted him to talk about sex with our son, but he didn't want to initiate the conversation. Our son has asked him to do fun things with him, but he hasn't gotten around to it. He seems to want to wait until someone else suggests something, or he assumes they are not interested, but on the other hand he doesn't like to be pressured, especially by me. <P>Against the Wind,<BR>I will be emailing you. Thanks.

Nellie, I know that you feel my advice is not valid, or is to silly for you right now. That is okay, but I encourage you to look thru your pain. <BR>I do know that you will see that you make your own path in life. And this will affect your children. So, the daughter wants to go out to dinner with her father? I do not see that as an issue. She knows he is selfish and that he is wrong, but she still loves him as her father! That tells me that she has learned how to put her own feelings aside for a few minutes and show her father love in spite of how he has hurt her. It shows me she does have the ability to forgive and to love, and she learned that from you! She has learned many valuable lessons from you that may not be too visible to you right now. But they are there-they are part of her. She understands your pain, and that can only come from a parent that raises children to be empathetic with others. <BR>Nellie, you are being way too hard on yourself and your family. I know many of people from divorced families, and people that are 'survivors' of infidelity that are fine people!! Not all of us become dysfunctional. Some of us grasp the problems and use them as a chance to grow, as a chance to see ourselves in a different light.<BR>Use this opportunity to bring your children closer to you. Too teach them important lessons in life. Material things they get at fathers, while at mothers they get true love, morals and the ever important life lessons. They are seeing two different lifestyles right now, so make sure they see what is most important.<BR>YOu are going to be fine Nellie.

cl,<BR>My daughter is empathetic, but shortly after I posted she informed me that she was very worried that if she was not civil to her father, he would stop paying for her college. Apparently her motives were not quite so pure.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Material things they get at fathers, while at mothers they get true love,<BR> morals and the ever important life lessons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe I am expecting to much, because my father was very nurturing. He was the one with whom I had long philosophical conversations, though I never doubted the love of either of my parents.