Today I played racquetball with 3 friends; something that I haven't done in over a year. I haven't even exercised in over a year. I played a little disc golf, but I got burned out on it. Heck, I didn't even play it that much when I was playing "alot".

I took some money out of our account the other day to pay for a bill. My wife knows, but I didn't tell her what bill it was. I know that I violated the policy of radical honesty, but I think it is for a good reason. I told her that she will find out later in the week. I know she worries about money, probably as much as I do now because she is trying to find a job so she can move out and pay for divorce papers. She told me today that she might have found a job that she is really interested in. I didn't exactly give an enthusiastic reply. When she tried to talk to me about it at dinner I told her that we should talk about it later. When we did talk about it I told her that I was happy she found a job, because I didn't want her to get bored and I thought she would enjoy the extra money. But, I also told her that I didn't want her to get a job, because as I understand things to be right now, that would mean that she was making plans to move out. She told me that she thought I wanted her to get a job. I do and I don't. What I really want is for her to be happy, with herself, with our daughter and with our marriage. Some of my wants may not happen, but right now I know that I can only take care of myself and our daughter.

I just finished chapter 2 of the book. Although I'm frustrated, I really like the book. I feel frustrated from reading the book because there are paragraphs at length that bring images and experiences to my mind as if I had written them. If a book exists with these words that evoke such images from my mind, I must not be alone huh?

I know my wife reads my posts and that doesn't bother me because I don't really have anywhere else to put my thoughts down. I wish my wife would read the book and talk to me about stuff, but I'm not going to put my hopes on it.

I feel fortunate for now that we still live together, but it is not easy. I'm not asking for a key to the magic carpet, but I wish I had this book when I first got married.

I forgot to write that the reason I don't have anywhere/anyone to write/talk with is that my wife was/is my best friend and because I don't feel that I can talk to her about our M or problems that adds to my frustration and loneliness.

Mike,

Keep reading. I said the exact same things when I read this. These books and principles should be mandatory reading (and will be for my kids) before you can get married.

You are right. We are all making the same stupid mistakes. I jut wish the word would get passed out so maybe most of these things would not happen.

Keep learning...keep praying. This is a process.

In His arms.

Hi Mike,
IF you feel you took the money for a good reason, why won't you talk about it with your W now?

I mean, if she is concerned, why wouldn't you want to discuss it with her, and calm her fears?

His Needs, Her Needs can hurt, because it explains things so well it seems real. I got as much good out of Love Busters, beause that is where I had the most problems. I figured that my W had problems, but I couldn't fix hers. I could fix mine, and I did, and am still improving, and it worked for us.

It seems to take a long time to get where conversation is natural and easy, especially about important things.

I really hope you do well.

SS

I will tell her about the money but can't right now because it is a suprise.

I do want to get the love busters book, but of course I have to wait until payday.

I couldn't sleep last night so I got up and read the last chapter. I actually read so much yesterday that I didn't realize that I had read all the way through chapter 4.

Mike,
the money issue does not sound like a suprise it sounds like a manipulation...

she knows the money is missing....she knows you "did something" with it...
tell her what you did...
otherwise it will grow and grow in to a big power struggle...that you will both lose...

This will fail and in the end...
she will be mad at you for withholding information regardless of your intentions..
you will be mad that instead of being "happy" about your suprise it is lost in you not telling her when she asked...

our actions define us...and to teach and live that we value honesty...even at the cost of blowing a suprise we must live accordingly...

I wish my wife would read the book and talk to me about stuff,

See the dichotomy here...you want your wife to talk to you..yet you with hold info about the money...focus on you and your actions....

[B]When she tried to talk to me about it at dinner I told her that we should talk about it later. When we did talk about it I told her that I was happy she found a job, because I didn't want her to get bored and I thought she would enjoy the extra money. But, I also told her that I didn't want her to get a job, because as I understand things to be right now, that would mean that she was making plans to move out. She told me that she thought I wanted her to get a job. I do and I don't.

Stop the game playing with words...and the skirting of issues...

If the deal on the table is that she wants to get a job for the singular reason for her to move out...and you do not want her to move out...make this clear to her...BUT you can't change or stop her..

What was her answer when you asked her about plans to move out...
which you may want to avoid in the future...and just simply state your own case that you don't wish for her to move out....

Continue to say things like I would be happy for you to find a job you love...BUT I am not happy about you wanting to move out....
and drop them...
state your point on these issues...and move on and don't dwell on them....

Sometimes we go for a long long time not really hearing eachother...then we get a huge shake up...and suddenly we tune in to every and each statement, inclination, verbal and non-verbal act we see....and drive ourselves bonkers....

It is difficult to maintain a sense of such high intensity and stressful for all...It can in ways undermine Plan A in the sense that everyone feels the stress and no one can just remember how it is to be together and just "be"...and perhaps even enjoy eachothers company....

You can continue to waste time holding out the info on the money....and see that suprise blow up in your face...or you can spend your evenings creating a spouse and environment with whom and where she wants to be...

your choice..
your control...

Mike I realize this post may sound tough or hard...and I don't mean to personally...
I know you are hurt...and this is hard....
ARK

I told her about the money before I read your post. She was worried, because I didn't use the money like she thought I was.

She knows it's a suprise and how much it cost and when. She just doesn't know what the suprise is now.

I didn't want to talk to her about it at dinner because our 4 year old daughter was sitting there with us. When she told me that she probably got the job and I didn't act happy for her is when she said she thought I wanted her to get a job.

I told her that I was happy she was getting a job and I did tell her that I wasn't happy she wanted to move out. You are right that your reply was tough but it wasn't off base.

I am not skirting issues, I'm trying to learn about myself and my wife and how to meet her needs. I didn't ask her what her plans were to move out because I want to avoid that as much as possible. I don't really talk about us unless she brings up the subject. Last night she was in some pain because she ate something that didn't disagree. She asked me to rub her leg, something that we learned along time ago that helps her to relax and let the paing go away. I wanted to help her because I care about her and love her. One of the things that I've learned is that everytime I'm near my wife, hug, kiss, cuddle, etc. I feel aroused. To me it's just a response.

One of the reasons I never liked dancing was that everytime I got close to my date to dance, I became aroused. That spoiled dancing, standing close face to face (in contat) and similar situations for me because I didn't want my date/girlfriend to know and us both be embarassed. I've learned that it's very tough to disassociate affection and SF but something I've been able to slowly work on by just relaxing myself.

Mike,,,

I didn't ask her what her plans were to move out because I want to avoid that as much as possible.

I know this is scarey...I know and agree that you want to avoid big overwhelming relationships talks...
but knowing and being honest about what each persons plans are is really just knowing the truth....

So what I am saying is don't be afraid to tell her exactly why it is difficult to support the job issue..if it is a package deal with her moving out...

Be careful of what you perceive as meeting needs vs what needs you can and do and should meet...

I remember seeing a movie years ago where a husband and wife get in a fight....

she's talking to him about some feelings she has from unmet needs...
he fires back about getting her flowers all the time...suprising her with them...etc...many times in the marriage...

she points out that while he did get her flowers many times in their marriage...that it was always at a time that made HIM feel good...that it served him more...to say..see what a good guy I am..I got you flowers...and were rarely given when SHE needed them....so all those flowers he beieived met her needs...really wasn't what she wanted or needed...but he could never hear her say so...

I am just pointing this out...to help you steer away from powerstruggling and failing and ending up feeling bad....

You are right that your reply was tough but it wasn't off base.

I honestly don't mean to be tough...Know that you can disregard anything or all that I offer...that is OK with me...
I'm just offering a different perspective..perhaps..which can be waaayy offf..
but who knows...

blessings to you mikeinVA
ARK

Mike:
Remember that Ark is trying to help you see it from your W's point of view. We guys sometimes think it is one way, but the gals see it another. Ever notice that?

She ( Ark) has pretty good insight. I think you follow her, but if not, read it over a few times.

I can tell you that with time, you get better at reading what she needs, and giving it to her. I also was very good at giving her what I thought she needed, not what she needed. Keep working on it, and don't let things get to you. ( Yea, easy for me to say, isn't it.)

SS

I didn't do much reading in His Needs/Her needs until yesterday, Sunday because I was just winging it some. I know I need to keep reading and I'm going to reread it when I'm done.

Ok, it's been awhile since I posted. The last week has been pretty eventful.

Friday was our fifth wedding anniversary. On Monday, I wasn't sure if I was going to do anything or not. I wanted to do something that W could enjoy by herself and help her to relax so I got her a gift certificate to a day spa. W loves purple roses and I almost wansn't going to get her any but changed my mind at the last minute and had a dozen purple and a dozen pink waiting at home when we returned from the day spa. After that we went to a nice restraunt and got a quiet corner. The staff knew it was our anniversary and gave her a rose and I got a coffee cup, that threw me for a loop. We had an enjoyable meal and talked about us some.

Since Friday we have talked a bit more about us and our relationship. I try and wait until she brings up the subject. I told her that I missed being able to talk to her openly like in the past and that writing to her was just as hard because I feel that e-mails and talking are just about the same and evoke the same feelings and emotions. So I haven't written her much. I have been checking her cell phone records and she knows that I've been following up on her. She says I have to do what I have to do.

Yesterday I told D that I OM wasn't allowed at our house and that she wasn't allowed to go to OM's house. That didn't go over well with W when D told her. W and I had a talk afterwards which essentially boiled down to the fact that D was confused because OM has always been nice to her and didn't know any different. I told W that just because OM was nice to D and W that it didn't make it appropriate. She told me, "If I want to see OM then you want me to move out right?" I took this as an opportunity to tell her what I wanted. I told her that I wanted her to have no more contact with OM, no more phone calls, no more e-mails, no more chats, and anything else and that I didn't want her to move out. I told her that I wanted us to work on our marriage. I was happy that I was finally able to tell her that straight up.

Ok, for the confusing stuff, we drove an hour and a half on Saturday to get a beagle from some others in my service that can't keep him because they are moving. He's a really nice dog and well behaved.

That evening W went out with the wife of a friend of hers. What I don't like about it is that I'm home for a short time and I want to spend as much time with my family as possible. I don't like to feel that because I'm home, I'm creating an opportunity for W to go out and have fun while I babysit. It frustrates me, but I am trying to use that time to get things done that I want to do even though I'd rather find a real baby sitter and go out with W myself.

During our conversation about OM, W said that she has to have a conversation with OM and that it has been coming for awhile. I don't know what that means but I'm not going to read into it. OM is going to my house this evening to talk with W. I'm not exactly thrilled at the thought of him going into my house, but I'm stuck at work and it seems that this is a critical point for W to deal with some of her own thoughts. We'll see.

I am thankful for one thing besides my daughter and when W makes me feel good about myself; and that is I knowing that I can concentrate on taking care of myself now and feel that I am doing everything that I can do to make myself happy.

Mike, I have been away from home, just got back.

How are you?

What happened with OM talking to your W?

Let us know how you are doing.

SS

OK. It's been awhile since I posted here. I've been reading and posting some replies in a few other places.

Here's what's happened in the last week. W and I went to counseling together on on Tuesday. She repeated alot of the things that she has told me and then said some other things that I hadn't heard before. Not things that I didn't listen to but things that she hadn't said.

The end result of the session was that we are both going to do IC for now. W has her own issues to deal with that are preventing her from working on our M. Statements like she is tainted and can't understand why I would want to be with her, that she doesn't love me the way a W should love a H, she doesn't respect me because I didn't handle the first A correctly.

She treated the first A as if it were a test and I failed miserably. I didn't blow up, get mad, throw her out of the house, or cut her out of my life. Instead I tried to understand what was going on. My mistake was that I didn't stop her A when I found out, I let her have what she said she wanted. During our session though, I learned that she really wanted me to take control of everything and that she was desperatly lonely because we moved a month after the D was born away from her family and I deployed alot.

W is still calling OM almost every day. I finally sent an e-mail to OM asking him to do what was right and stop his destructive interference in my marriage. I didn't receive a reply. But, then again, I didn't expect I would.

W did tell the counselor that she had previous affairs and that this affair was only limited to an EA but she feels that what I am doing is too little too late.

I did recently finish His Needs/Her Needs and just bought Love Busters.

I wasn't sure if I should get Surviving an Affair yet. I figured Love Busters would help me more right now than the other one?

I would appreciate any feedback.