My husband had an affair 6 months ago. After all this time, he has still shown little to no true remorse. I am having a really hard time feeling loving towards him because of this.

I just ordered and read Surviving an Affair. I think it's an excellent book. Since I didn't read it though until long AFTER he stopped seeing and communicating with the OW, there was never really any Plan A or Plan B. So, how should I apply those principles to our marriage now?

I'd like for things to be able to work out between us, but it is so hard for me to feel and act loving towards him when I feel so much resentment for him cheating on me and then not even really showing any true remorse afterwards even after all this time. He acts as though the affair barely even affected him while it turned my world upside down.

One of the reasons I think he's not very remorseful, is that since the time I agreed to try to reconcile back at the beginning of March, he's snuck out to the bar with his friends several times. When I agreed to reconcile with him, I gave him a list of ten conditions that I felt were very, very important to me that he meet in order for me to want to work things out with him. He agreed to do all these things, yet he hasn't done all of them even this many months later including the one about no more going out to bars unless I go with him. The last time he did this, that I know of, is three weeks ago. He left work 2 hours early (he works the night shift), and didn't get home until 3:00 AM. He didn't even call me to let me know where he'd be. He said this is because he really wanted to see his friend Micah whom he hadn't seen in awhile, and he knew I wouldn't be cool with it which is why he sneaked out. On the contrary, I DO want him to be able to keep seeing his friends, but I've told him that him going to bars without me makes me VERY uncomfortable, as it was in the same setting that he met the OW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> He apologized and seemed really scared about losing me when he got home that night (because he knew how upset and mad I'd be). So, he at least admitted where he was right away after he got home and apologized. He said it wouldn't happen again, but I've heard that one too many times. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He says his friends aren't interested in meeting him anywhere other than at bars. Gees, maybe it's time for him to find some new friends then, if that's really the case???

Then, this past weekend, I went to go start the car up and happened to find a pot pipe in the car. He admitted that when he went out with his friend Micah a few weeks ago, not only did he drink alot, but that they also smoked pot together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

He SWEARS that he hasn't done it since then and promises he won't do it ever again, but like I said before, I've heard that line so many times that I have no reason to feel like I should believe him now. He admitted to me during our month long separation while he was with OW that he used to smoke pot ALOT with this guy back when they used to work together about a year ago. This was all news to me. I had NO idea at the time.

Do you think it is reasonable of me to tell my husband that he needs to stop being friends with this guy if he wants me to stay with him? He doesn't seem to be the best influence on my husband, although I realize my husband isn't a child, and it's not like his friend had a gun up to his head "forcing" him to smoke pot with him. My husband also told me that he understands that I'm really upset about him smoking pot, but that he personally doesn't think it's a big deal especially if he only does it occasionally. Maybe I'm too old fashioned or something, but to me it IS a big deal. It is illegal for one, and secondly I just don't think smoking pot is something a married man with a 5 year old little girl has any business doing.

Don't you guys think if he really WAS remorseful that he wouldn't continue doing things that he KNOWS upset me terribly?

I really want things to work out, if for no other reason then because I think it would be in our little girl's best interest, but I just don't know how much of this I can take. I'm sick of feeling like a doormat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Any words of wisdom would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Hi HSM21,

Welcome to MB. Sorry to hear of your plight but it sounds like a few things:

1. 2 many things for him to abide to (you said 10).

2. He needs to know the importance of keeping his word. What are you giving him despite his actions that you can withdraw?

3. Do you have an MC or IC? Steve or Jennifer may be able to give you a phone counseling session or 2.

4. Have you read the concept section above and taken the emotional needs questionnaire?

IMHO, I think you can still incooperate plan A or B depending on where You are.

L.

hsmommy,

The first thing I would say is that no matter how much we want others to change..we can't force them...

So focus on you...and your response too both the behaviors that make you feel safe and loved...and those that don't...

Often the changes we make in ourselves bring about changes in others....

Orchid makes an excellent point about ten things (requests/demands being a lot...
perhaps you can list your ten things...and that way we know exactly what it is you are seeking...

One thing you should be doing and start doing..is too make sure that each and every time he does something on the list...you give him heaps and heaps of positive reinforcement...so that he sees the direct correlation of his actions and your reaction...as positive...

Also when looking at your self and changes...that even though right now it is difficult to feel loving towards..you must make a really good effort at it...for several reasons...

one is that what you desire most is for him to be home with you and the family in a loving caring environment...which is exactly what you must attempt to create....

If he is getting a lot of your unhappiness with him...and feeling like he is always in trouble...then human nature will drive him (all of us) to avoid that which is not comfortable or fun...

Is this fair?...that you have to do so much work on this...nope ..probably not...but when looking at the big picture...you must work at showing him that type of feeling loved and being loved when home can and does exist...and will only get better when both start working on it...

Look at your role in the pot issue..you can create a huge power struggle over it...which sounds like where you guys have been and are heading...or you can work really hard at creating an environment in which he no longer wants to do things that upset you so much...and feels safe enough to discuss and even "confess" to you if he does go the wrong route on this....

None of this means that you live without boundaries and that he can do anything he wants...

you need to be clear on your boundaries...clear on how they affect you...and clear on consequances that you are willing to follow through with...
ultimatums usually don't work...

and you can begin a power struggle over the friend...or try a different approach in which you try to do things with him..

have you made any efforts to go to the bar with him....socially since you told him that you would rather he went with you....

have you made social things for just the two of you...

I think you are carrying a lot of resentment, pain and baggage...understandably so...but untill the environment changes between the two of you...and you both work on creating a safe place to share these feelings and work on them...then you are sabotaging your own efforts...

I suggest counselling as well....for both of you...that would be a great positive sign he is willing to change as well...and might give you the steam you need to get back on track...

peace to you...
ARK

Hi everyone, You guys mentioned that it would be helpful to actually see what my original conditions for him were. I was thinking it was a list of ten things but it was actually 12. I gave this to him back in March when I agreed to try to reconcile:

1) Remorse/undoubtedly sincere apology to me as well as to both of our families.

2) Agreement to be totally open and honest with me from here on out which includes, but is not necessasarily limited to, giving me access to your email, cell phone bill, cell phone voice mail messages, bank statements and to any other item(s) I deem necessary.

3) No more going out to bars unless I join you there.

4) Weekly church attendance as a family.

5) Weekly mentoring with pastor or someone else who can help you become a man of God.

6) Weekly marriage counseling sessions.

7) Weekly dates with me while either your mom or my mom babysits Hannah.

8) No more verbal abuse in any way, shape or form.

9) No smoking pot ever again!!!

10) No going to strip clubs ever again!!!

11) No cheating on me ever again in any way, shape or form!!!

12) No going to visit your brother Chris in Atlanta again uless you, me and Hannah go there as a family.

12) Be willing to give 110% to do whatever it takes to try and earn my trust and respect back.

Unfortunately, he hasn't really solidly meet any of these except for #9 the strip club thing. The reason I said #11 is that the last time my husband went there for the weekend he called me up TOTALLY wasted and said he had just got done throwing up after being up bar hopping with his brother and his brother's friends ALL NIGHT! He claimed then and claims now that he didn't cheat on me in any way, shape or form while there, and I can only hope that's true. He didn't give me any reason to be suspicous once he came home from that. He let's me have access to his everything listed on #2 BUT his friends only seem to email him at his work email which I have no way to access so that doesn't help me out a whole lot. He's been pretty good about going to marriage counseling. He hasn't tried to make our weekly dates a priority. If we go out, it's almost always me that plans it. Regarding #8, I just found out the other day that three weeks ago he smoked pot with one of his friends the same night they went to a bar together which correlates with #2. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I would not trust your H at this point.

Without remorse .... there is no accountability.

Truth?

I'd leave him unless he makes some remarkable improvement .... pronto.

Trying to recover a marriage after infidelity with a current drinker is like trying to hang wallpaper on the outside of a barn during a windstorm .....

Before i allowed recovery to begin in our M .... i made a boundary that included WH going to AA ..... 7 years later, my H adores AA and is a sponsor to 3 other men.

A drinker who cheats is not a good bet for any level of meaningful recovery ... in MY opinion.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ August 20, 2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I'm having just a terrible recovery, so who am I to give advice?

What I would say is that you have put yourself in the role of vigilante to a rebellious teenager. Do you want to be a vigilante?

He is staying in the M and trying to do what he wants without your knowing when he violates the very very important conditions that you set up for recovery. He hasn't bought into those conditions.

Think about the impact on your sanity of trying to figure out what he is doing, finding evidence of pot smoking, extracting confessions of wrongdoing, etc. This isn't building a good marriage. This is creating a parent-child relationship with no underlying respect.

Search me if I know how to get from an affair to a mutually respectful relationship, but I know that the vigilante approach is dead on arrival. I'm trying the Solo Spouse approach now. It's not Plan A, Plan B, or Plan C (conflict). It's really Plan W (withdrawal). HE has to take the intiative and propose what to change. I'm letting him know that the way things are is no good for me.

Good luck.

What to do with an alcoholic spouse...

Here's a link you may be interested in.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pep and broken arm and heart,
Thanks so much for yout input. Pep, just so you know, husband isn't an alcoholic. He's fairly young,27, and unlike me still hasn't outgrown the "need" to want to go to bars all the time. I think it's extremely immature of him to keep doing this when he knows how much this bothers me. Same for the pot smoking even if it's "only" occasionally. He doesn't drink on a daily basis. Maybe a couple times a week after work he might have 1 or 2 beers at most while he watches tv and relaxes. I'm not at all trying to defend him, just trying to let you know where he's at as far as the drinking is concerned.
Broken, I'm SO sorry to hear that you not only had your heart broken by your husband but your arm as well. Was the just an isolated incident of physical abuse? I hope so...

Did you read the link all the way to the bottom?

Harley says:

"My definition of an alcoholic is someone who cannot follow the POJA because of their craving for alcohol."
"If your drinking in any form bothers your spouse, and you cannot or will not give it up for his or her sake, I consider you an alcoholic because alcohol is more important to you than the feelings of your spouse."

You could just as easily substitute pot.

But, if you don't want to consider your H's continued drinking and smoking pot when you've asked him to stop an addiction, that's your perogative.

He certainly shows little respect for you, that's for sure.

I did not know how much my H was drinking until after D-Day .... what he told me was "1 or 2 beers" and the reality was waaaay higher.

No remorse is typical for an alcoholic. Just so you know..... so is immaturity ..... so is lying ....

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi Pep, Thanks for pointing that out to me. I actually read that article quite some time ago and shared that last part in particular with my husband. Unfortunately, his response was something to the effect of "Whatever, that guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. I'm NOT an alcoholic!".

I tried to point out to him tonight that while I appreciate his obvious efforts in some areas (being much more affectionate and sweet to me lately, filling out the emotional needs quiz promptly when I asked him to and then taking it upon himself to take quite awhile to discuss it with me, etc), that those things as nice as they are STILL don't make up for the fact that he hasn't met all my conditions yet, six months later. He says he's so sorry, I love you so much baby etc...but doesn't actually address what I'm saying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

"I tried to point out to him ..... blah blah blah"

Here's how YOU know if YOUR sickness is at critical mass hsmom.....

You check your H's pulse and take your H's temperature when you are trying to decide how you will proceed.

This is an Al-Anon moment.

Those of us married to an addict lose our own direction in life. We base our actions on what we think the addict is going to do, what we think the addict is thinking, what we think the addict meant when he said "You can't control me.", what we think the addict meant he did NOT say "You cannot control me." ..... yadda yadda yadda.

This is an obsession. A sick little hobby.

"Gee, if I can just educate my beloved addict enough, he'll see the light, he will change into the man I know he can be, and all will be happy, and he will be soooo grateful I've stood by him and educated him in the way of the light."

Look at my conversation with Sungirl. You can see where I've tried to "educate" her. You can see the "warm reception" I have received from her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> LOL! I find I can bow out gracefully sooner than I used to, and with no hurt feelings on my part. Thanks to Al-Anon. It's a little hobby you and I share. Rescueing the hurt puppies of the world. The puppies that keep running back onto the dangerous road, no matter how many times we scold them or educate them.

If you really want to make sense of your husband, attend at least 2 meetings a week of Al-Anon for a month, and ask yourself what your own pulse is and take your own temperature.

This is our addiction (yours and mine), caring for and educating the addict. Doing HIS inventory, whilst we ignore ours.

Love,

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ August 21, 2003, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

hsmommyto1, if he hasn't kept his word on anything, then perhaps his A isn't over either.
There is to me, no room in a marriage for bar hopping with the buddies, not coming home from work right away and not getting help for his addictions!
If he has not changed his habits, then nothing has changed at all.
And as I see it, his social circle/life is leading to nothing but trouble.
You are who you hang out with! And no matter if he was determined not to be one of them, he will be. Studies show even if a Christian person tries to help others, and hangs out with them, they will pull that person down to their level more often than the helper pulling them out of their habits and sins!
You have choices. If he meets nothing of his agreement with you, then he could move out until he decided to change!
I have a niece dealing with the same problem and he moved to his mothers. Now he cries and wants back. But she's not taking him back until he gets rehab. He's a druggie.
She took him back many times, and it's always his terms and he has never changed. This time, he does the work or she's through. And I support and applaud her all the way with that decision. She doesn't need her life any more ruined!
Remember, it's your terms, not his!
My H has never except during his A first time, hung out with the boys in a bar. And that is where he got caught up with the barmaid!
He is married to me and I expect any social life to be together. He is retired now, but he always came straight home from work and left just giving enough time to get there.
When he worked out of town and fell in with the drinking buddies, bar time after work is where the trouble came from!
I believe any man who wants to hang out with the boys after work rather than family should not be married!
Some guys want their cake and eat it too. Family men have no business hanging in the bars, dope and alcohol being more important to them.
You are either married and committed and give up the single life, or you're single in my book. Can't have it both ways.
And as Dr.Phil says, you teach people how to treat you. What you allow is what you will get!
LouLou

Thanks so much for your input everyone!

Does anyone else have anything they'd like to add to this?

Thanks!