My H is the WS and the OW is someone he met on the internet. She is married with 3 kids and lives in another state. They've met in person twice. They have attempted the NC with no real results (maybe they go a week and she calls).

The OW says she wants to see my H again. She told him she will be going to this conference in October and wants him to go. He told me last night he wants to see her again and hasn't decided if he will go to the conference or not.

He says he is trying as he is not the one initiating contact, although he pretty much knows she'll eventually call him. I told him if he went to the conference, I wouldn't be here when he got back. By saying that am I LBing by giving him an ultimatum?

My H says he doesn't know what he wants. Part of him wants to stay and part of him wants to leave the marriage. This morning before he went to work he looked very down. I asked what was wrong, he said he was very sad. He said what he had to do to make me happy (really have NC) would make him unhappy.

The OW had been saying she wouldn't leave her H, but has now started saying she's asking her H for a D so she can be with my H. Meanwhile my H sounds less and less hopeful about our marriage surviving.

I am at the end of my rope. I don't know what to do. I have been Plan Aing, we've been going to counseling. Was my response to him considering going to this conference wrong? What should I have said? If he decides to go am I supposed to just accept it?

I am feeling very panicked and like my H is on the verge of giving up on us completely. Somebody please help!

Hi,

I understand the panick but you need to know where you boundaries are. Right now you can't really help a confused man. The question is can you stand having him around you and your family?

Is a confused man a safe person to be around your family? Let him know you have concerns and if you no longer feel safe ($$, safety, support, etc.) then he needs to do what is neccessary to protect your family.

I told mine that I felt the OW was a dangerous person. How dangerous she was was not fully known but the changes in his character showed me that I needed to be cautious. That proved t/b protection for me.

What are you doing to help yourself?

JMHO,
L.

duplicate post.

<small>[ August 20, 2003, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Thanks for the quick response Orchid.

I feel safe as far as $$ and safety. My panic is more about feeling him slipping through my fingers.

He will be optimistic about us and then she'll call and then he'll feel pessimistic. Plus now she's dangling this D in front of him. I think he was more optimistic about us when he believed being with her wasn't an option (she originally was saying she wouldn't leave her H).

I'm just wondering if I handled his talking about not knowing whether or not he'd go to this conference the wrong way. Should I have tried to negotiate something? Was basically saying "go and I'll walk" the wrong thing to say since it's an ultimatum?

Please, anyone's thoughts would be appreciated. I need help!

trying does the Ow husband know about the affair and continued contact...and divorce plans...

have you ever spoken to the owhusband...he deserves to know of her plans of divorce to protect the children from her

You may want to consider filling him on what you know...

How has your Plan A been

working or not working..
have you been upbeat?

It's not an ultimatum if it is something you plan on doing...and it is not a ultimatum in the face of something sooo basic and fundamental to a marriage...

His actions will speak volumes about his integrity and sincerity...

Perhaps you could make plans for something the two of you could go away too during the conference time...

a mini vacation for you and he...

If he chooses to go to a conference with her...then I would move to plan B immediately...
but step up your plan a if you need to now for the time being....

He says he is trying as he is not the one initiating contact,
words are cheap..he is not trying...he lets her contact him..then he speaks with her...
that is not trying....tell him that...

How dare this otherwoman...toy with children's lives and emotions...she is disgusting....and it is a shame that your husband would even be interested in the type of woman willing to destroy children's live over a person she has met twice in reality....... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

i would offer some wonderful trip...
step up plan a till october...
continue to request no contact...
then if he goes on trip....plan b...
also ...what are plans if he continues contact indefinately...what type of inner time line have you set for yourself in all of this...

ARK

<small>[ August 20, 2003, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

ARK, thanks so much for your reply.

The OWH is well aware of everything going on. His solution to her asking for a D was an open marriage. He told her she could have one weekend a month with my H. I told my H if he wanted the deal he could take it, but I would not be a part of it. He already knew that and said he admired me for not being willing to put up with it. Anyway, I'll get no help from OWH.

Plan A has had it's ups and downs. Really just one big fight. But I do keep pressing for NC. I also tend to think he's not really trying since he just lets her contact him. But, I suppose on some level he is because he could be calling her on the days she doesn't call him. And I believe him that he's not since the one thing we've been able to achieve is brutal honesty.

Anyway, I do tend to get down, so I will need to work on that. I agree with you that I need to step up my Plan A, especially now since he's in the midst of deciding about this trip. I have decided even if he makes reservations I will continue to Plan A up until he leaves. Once he leaves for the conference though I think you're right and I'll need to go to Plan B. That is a major step though since it will entail me moving back home and out of state.

He said last night he thinks about asking me to leave sometimes but then thinks "But our anniversary is coming up (Aug 23rd)" or "But we have a vacation planned in Sep". I told him to stop, that those were no reasons to continue a marriage. Some of the stuff he says is so off the wall sometimes I want to scream.

As for my timeline, our counselor suggested quarterly meetings so we could assess our progress. Our first is Oct 1st. I had told my H I wasn't going to leave before then. (There are times when he tells me he's afraid I'm going to get tired of this and just leave.) After that, I'm not sure. I've told him the way things are now (still having contact) can't continue indefinitely, he said he knew that. He says he's paralyzed by indecision. On my darker days I feel as if he's just waiting for me to leave.

But I will try to focus on doing a good Plan A. Thanks for your input.

quote:
I told him if he went to the conference, I wouldn't be here when he got back. By saying that am I LBing by giving him an ultimatum?

I think what you told him was the smartest and most effective thing you could do. It really does not matter whether it is an ultimatum or not.

What matters is this.... What works the best to turn them around. I have read thousands and thousands of threads, not only on this site, but others as well.... My conclusion is that the WS comes back FAR FAR more and faster when you confidently tell them you will not share them with another person, and if they want to be with the other person, "thats fine, but you can't have me too".... That is not an ultimatum..... Just a fact that to have a good loving relationship, that it must be exclusive.....

He is testing your self respect and confidence. If you fail the test, then you will be like so many others on this board... Waiting, hoping, trying, asking themselves constantly whether they should be in Plan A or Plan B..

If you pass the test, he is more likely to come back. Theres is nothing wrong with what you told him. If he goes to see her, then do exactly what you said you would... I think he would cave in if he thought he had lost you......

There is nothing wrong from coming from a position of strength and as a matter of fact, it quite often turns things YOUR way. Hold your head up high and believe in what you said....You will be perfectly fine with or without him....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by trying32:
<strong>ARK, thanks so much for your reply.

The OWH is well aware of everything going on. His solution to her asking for a D was an open marriage. He told her she could have one weekend a month with my H. I told my H if he wanted the deal he could take it, but I would not be a part of it. He already knew that and said he admired me for not being willing to put up with it. Anyway, I'll get no help from OWH.

.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did the OWH tell you this himself? Unless he told you this himself, I have a very hard time believing it. I would contact him right away to make sure he knows. I am betting he hasn't a CLUE and this is just some malarkey concocted by the OW.

Keep - Thank you for your post and words of encouragement. It was what I needed to hear. Your comments about him testing me to see how much I will allow may be right on target. His trying to come up with ways to justify or get me to see his point of view on this trip reminded me a little of the exchange a teenager and parent might have about curfew. I will remain firm in my position on his seeing her again. I think I would lose my self-respect if he went to see her and I stayed. As much as I want my marriage, I know it's not worth that. And I've actually told him just that.

We had a nice evening last night. Went to see a play and during the third act my H took and held my hand for the rest of the play. Then he held my hand on the walk home. He said afterwards that the play made him think about everything going on and that even if he and OW got Ds in order to be together, who's to say the feelings would last. I was glad to hear him expressing doubts, I just hope he remembers them today.

Melody - I totally believe that the OW and her H have come up with this arrangement. The reason I'm confident of this is because the OWH had already agreed to let her meet my H on his business trip and spend a week with him. The week together and a new house were the "deal" the OW and her H had come up with for her to stay in the marriage (the 3 of them of course neglected to inform me about this deal). After the week together there was to be NC. Well, that hasn't happened and now the OWH has come up with the once/month visitation arrangement as an alternative to D. Unfortunately, these are the kind of people I'm dealing with - no morals, no ethics, no nothing.

Hi,

R U game for some wild ideas? OW offered my WS $$, travel, business ventures, etc. All offers, never materialized.

After being put in the dirt (lower than dirt actually), I decided to tell the WS to take the OW up on her offers. In fact, after I secured from the WS that he knew his family was worth more than 1 million $$ (priceless according to HIS words), I then told him to get his supposed rich hussy to buy us out. Yep. Went for the 1 mill first, then lowered it to 500k.......used many numbers to get it to 20k. So much for priceless but the excercise helped him see that:

1. Ow was phony in her offers. She said she had the $$ but wasn't going to part with it. She wanted WS with his assests and her $$.
2. He admitted we were priceless (that rang in his ears).
3. We were worth more than the OW.

That push towards the OW boomeranged on the A. It was a gamble but at that point, I had nothing to lose. I was mentally prepared for the D, in plan B and so I took the chance.

Maybe this isn't for everyone but it seemed to work for me.

L.

Well, I just wanted to post an update. My H told me the other night he had decided not to go to LA to see the OW in October. He said he needed to give us time to work on things. He even said it wasn't fair of him to hold that trip out over my head. I must admit I was greatly relieved because I was pretty sure he was going to go. This all came about after, in one evening, he spoke to his Dad and his Mom (they're D) and a close friend.

The OW had been calling him at work about once a week. This week she's been calling him everyday. I think because she knew he was close to making a decision about LA. When she called yesterday he told her he wasn't going to LA and he needed time to work on his marriage. He asked her to leave him alone. I'm not overly optimistic since this is probably the tenth time they've had this conversation of NC. I'm sure she will call him again in a week or so to test his resolve, I'm hoping this time he'll put his foot down.

He had told OW I would leave him if he went to LA. She said she didn't want to be the cause of his M breaking up (whatever!). She did ask him to promise her that they would see each other again at some point. He told her if she didn't want to be the cause of his M breaking up then he couldn't promise her that.

Last night I read an email he sent a friend of his who knows what's going on. In it he wrote "My heart is with OW, my mind is with my wife." I've read and heard him say far more painful things, but I guess this really hurt since it came the day after he said he wanted to give us time to work on our marriage.

Is this just fog talk??? Should I not put much stock in this and just be glad he decided not to go to LA (he knew I'd leave him), and keep Plan Aing my heart out??

Any comments would be greatly appreciated!