I haven't been on marriage builders in awhile..things seemed to be going on an upward trend. But, bottom line here is the problem I'm having. I can't make love to my H. For some reason, the thought is just weird to me. I cringe when he touches me and I sure as heck don't want to kiss him.

I do love him..but its more like a brother type of love. He loves me, loves the kids, but its not fair to him for me to feel this way. Yet, is it fair to ME to have sex with him...and hating it the whole time?

The history of our whole situtaion is like a bad soap-opera. He was verbally abusive for years... I ended up having an A, he found out and was devastated, we went to therapy for a year. After that year, I found out that HE had also had an A and hadn't even disclosed it during therapy!! He and the therapist had made me feel so guilty the whole time! And then, a few months later, H talks to our priest about my lack of interest in sex! Well, the priest wants to talk to me...(I had NO CLUE he would ask me about my sex life!) I'm sorry, but the LAST person I feel comfortable talking about my sex life, is a PRIEST!!!!

Since that time, I have NOT wanted nor desired sex with him. We have been getting along great...been very good friends, no arguments or problems. However, the other night, he wanted to 'talk'. And the talk was about the lack of sex.

What do I do? I don't want to hurt him...I don't want a divorce, yet I just don't see me getting past this sex issue.

ANY and all input would be greatly appreciated. Not sure where else to turn.

I don't have much room to talk on this stuff... I have my own issues as a WS... I'm a veritable magazine rack. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

That said:

I wonder what exactly it is that makes you not want to kiss him and cringe when he touches you. You still mad about the priest thing or is there more?

Could you address that?

-TMD

<small>[ August 21, 2003, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: TrulyMadlyDeeply ]</small>

Put on your helmet , Tuff .... this might hurt:

"I don't want to hurt him. I don't want a divorce. " ..... but, you don't want to have sex with him. ..... ever.

Well, you are hurting him. "Want to" has little to do with the reality that he is hurt.

You don't "want to" hurt him, but you are certainly willing to hurt him.

You don't "want to' hurt him, but it's really OK if he gets hurt..... because you didn't "want to".

You don't want a divorce .... instead you are willing to continue to hurt him for the rest of your life. How generous!

YOU have what is called a "TWO CHOICE DILEMMA" by a really fantastic author, David Schnarch in his fantastic book Passionate Marriage. Schnarch's web site

YOU are fence-sitting in your own way. By NOT choosing when presented with your 2-choice dilemma, you become a passive-aggressive thief. Stealing the marriage perks without fully being a wife.

Are you willing to accept the perks of your marriage? ...... YES

Are you willing to participate in intimacy with your husband? ..... NO

Are you in essence saying to your husband, "If you love me, you will sacrifice your sexual self to be with me." ..... YES

I STRONGLY suggest Schnarch's book for both you and your H to read.

Our sexuality is a gift from God.

YOU are afraid of intimacy. Staying in a marriage under false pretenses is detremental to your integrity.

Having great sex with your husband .... jeezlouise .... what a punishment!

READ this book!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Having great sex with your husband .... jeezlouise .... what a punishment!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe he wasn't "verbally abusive" just trying to yell loud enough to show her she wasn't the only one on the face of the earth.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since that time, I have NOT wanted nor desired sex with him. We have been getting along great...been very good friends, no arguments or problems. However, the other night, he wanted to 'talk'. And the talk was about the lack of sex.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah,a great marriage is without sex, just the "buddies thing" going, not an argument or problem. So the other night as you cracked open a couple of cold onez, together, he says "my friend, no arguments, no problems, but how's about we do the act of marriage once and awhile?"

TuffLuvForMe , if you take the time to register and post...let's be honest. Tell us more. Give us timelines...we are so much easier to talk to than priests...except for Monsignor
Pepperband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

DustKitten!!!!

This time I actually did shoot juice outta my nose !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Funnee DustKitten ....

You made my day! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

For those who have a great sex life, it's only 10% of the marriage.
But for those who aren't getting any, it's 90%.
You can't have a great marriage without a great sex life unless, and only if there are medical problems prohibing one.
If you're capable and denying your spouse, you won't have a marriage for long!
So I'd say some therapy is in order to find out why you're so repulsed by your spouse. Even a sex therapist!
Otherwise, call it quits and let the one who desires a whole marriage get on with life.
If my H were ill, could not have sex with me, I'd love him to death still and stand by him. But if he just didn't like it and withheld that love from me, I'd be divorced fast!
BTW, how does one have an A then hate sex with spouse?
If spouse isn't a good lover, it can be learned!
LouLou

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"We have been getting along great...been very good friends, no arguments or problems."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is YOUR perception but inside your H's head it may be a quite different story. This lack of conflict can be an ominous sign to something that may end up blind siding you unless you and your H resolve this issue.

Monsignor Pepperband and TuffLuvForMe,

First Monsignor, it is not dust"kitten" that sounds like some bouffanted babe from a Bond film. I am a dustkitty, a dry ol'peice of dust that is chased by the tidy folks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

And TuffLuvForMe, do continue to read the good stuff written here...for you. You are embraced to join in the fun and the self inspection as well!
Right now there are so many postings from men who lament they can't get across to the wives they love, that sex is important. I keep thinking "whatda-heck?"...do they not hear? Your comment that he told you it was a problem means it needs to be addressed.

Babe if he wants you...dwell on that for awhile, being desired can often be the first perk to a confused libido.

Kiss the Monsignor's ring, it is almost a sacrament here.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well .... we always called that rolling fur on the floor stuff "dust bunnies" ....

YOU are either DustKitten or DustPussy to me ...

.... take your pick! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

GULP.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> DustPussy </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm almost too afraid to respond to that one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But don't you have to be over 80, widowed at least ten years and have poor personal hygiene before you can be called that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Atttention! There will be uplifting marriage aff-fur-irming dialogue at the end of this post...Sincere1, look in here! ..first to the nonsense.

Monsignor, not knowing the difference in how to tell the bunnie? from the kitty? has made you someone all celibate uphelding practitioners should model. If you look at "the tail" you would know the disparity exists in that region. Bravo.

OO7stunned, "Q" would be aghast that you are not brave enough to ask the questions. Yes, I am under 80, not widowed yet (however that thought did indeed cheer me up last Spring!), and the dust exists only in my head.

NOW! for the upbuilding part. I got to thinking about OctoPussy and how I do look like Maude Adams if you squint and are very very drunk. BUT! Remember the song? All Time High!

I now dedicate this song to all the Recoverers like 007Stunned and SincereGalore who slipped away this weekend for some distraction! Hit it Doc!

All I wanted was a sweet distraction for an hour or two
Had every intention to love you again, so let the fun begin!
Funny how it always goes with love, when you reach out, you find
But then we're two of a kind, we move as one

We're an all time high
We'll change all that's gone before
Doing so much more than just falling in back in love
On an all time high
We'll take on the world and win
So hold on tight, let the flight begin

I don't want to waste a waking moment
I don't want to sleep
Cos I'm in so strong and so deep, and so are you
In our time we've said many words before, but now I realize
My heart is telling me I love you, and it's true!

We're an all time high
We'll change all that's gone before
Doing so much more than just falling back in love
On an all time high
Yeah, we'll take on the world and win
So hold on tight, let the flight begin

ok, I tweeked a word or so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

i tawt i taw a puddy tat <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I really wanted to add something but what has been said seems pretty much on. Schnarch's book is excellent read. He uses REEEEEALLLLLLLYYYYY big words.

God bless

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TuffLuvForMe:
<strong>

I do love him..but its more like a brother type of love. He loves me, loves the kids, but its not fair to him for me to feel this way. Yet, is it fair to ME to have sex with him...and hating it the whole time?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The joy is in giving, not receiving. If you really do love him, why don't you try turning your husband on for his pleasure. You might just get pleasure from your own power and sex appeal as a lover? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TuffLuvForMe, we are keeping this thread warm for you...please come back this evening and post. OK?

Tuff - as you can see, you will not get much help from people here when you mention that you are in a verbally abusive relationship. It just kinda goes over their head.

I can totally see where you are coming from, yes, I have felt the same way toward my spouse and wondered why, before my A and all the problems came, sex was never the issue. I do try to respond to my H, even when I don't want to. If I can engage in the act even when I don't feel it, I feel eventually, and hopefully things will change and I'll feel sexual toward him again. It's really hard to explain.

My marriage is still suffering from verbal abuse and as much as I wanted it to be completely gone, I am starting to see it creep back into my life. The more I try to show my H, love and affection, the more I seem to be boombarded by little things that will turn into big things.

I don't know about you, but maybe you don't want to have sex with your H, is because your were pressured into it while in the abusive part of your relationship and that it seemed to be his way of exerting himself over you. The ole "wham bam thank you mam" syndrome.

JMHO

Tuff, I can relate to your feelings. My WS has a drinking problem which made me feel second rate, rejected, unimportant and I continually dealt with his spirit of indifference toward my feelings. This was a total turn off to me. I could not respond affectionately...I shutdown emotionally. A barrier formed that could only be broken down by BOTH of us.

Women are turned on very differently than men. We need to "talk", be valued, be connected emotionally to our partner. Sex is not a reaction but a response to being cherished for who you are. To me, the most perfect act of love is that a person wants to spend time with me and do things together.

Do you and your S have respect and value for each other that you show in various ways?

TW

Nope, nobody in the MB forums has ever had to endure a verbally abusive relationship, it just goes over our heads. So true!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tiredofhurting:
<strong>Tuff - as you can see, you will not get much help from people here when you mention that you are in a verbally abusive relationship. It just kinda goes over their head.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tuff, start a new thread and address some of the questions we asked as to how he verbally abused you, why you had an affair, and why now you think you can have a non-sexual marriage, while still getting along "great". We only tangented because you threw alot of "what the hecks?" at us.

Tossedwave? Verbal abuse going over the heads of a betrayed spouse, ouch! get the salt away from our wounds!!!!

But you have compasion for TuffLove4me...coax her back.

I can understand the 'cringing' - I too do not want to make love with my husband. For so many years, I thought that it was because of my career and not being able to relax. But I just had an affair and realized how passionate and wonderful sex can be. I don't have any desire to do that with my own husband and I don't regret the affair. But I'm also not willing to disclose it. The OM suggested I try specific things to try to fall back in love with my husband, including pretending I was making love with him (the OM is also married). The idea makes me want to curl up in a ball and avoid all contact.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by confused & lonely:
<strong>I can understand the 'cringing' - I too do not want to make love with my husband. For so many years, I thought that it was because of my career and not being able to relax. But I just had an affair and realized how passionate and wonderful sex can be. I don't have any desire to do that with my own husband and I don't regret the affair. But I'm also not willing to disclose it. The OM suggested I try specific things to try to fall back in love with my husband, including pretending I was making love with him (the OM is also married). The idea makes me want to curl up in a ball and avoid all contact.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You may disagree with me but your affair warped your view of reality and addicted you to a fantasy which you are still clinging to, and it will continue to be so until you finally chose to end all contact with your OM forever.

If you don't appreciate your H as a man, I'm sure there are plenty of women that would, given the chance, and your rejection is making it very easy for one day for that to become a reality, (if it isn't already and you are blissfully ignorant of it).

Please read Dr Willard Harley's books 'Surviving An Affair', 'His Needs Her Needs' and 'Love Busters' for you will definitely learn a lot from them, just like all of us (BS and WS alike) have.

<small>[ August 24, 2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

I'm in no position to give advice, my marriage is a shambles right now. However, I did buy the book His Needs, Her Needs and it has helped me some. It addresses basic needs of men and women. The most important needs for you are probably the least important to your husband and vise versa. Read the book. Get some answers....