Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
M
Mulan Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
Today I tried to POJA his social life. I told him that I have never, and would never, go out and do something without him if it made him at all uncomfortable. I told him I felt we should both be in complete agreement about social activities that either one of us undertakes without the other one present.

Well, he is annoyed that I want a "blanket statement" that he won't go out with people at work if I am not comfortable with it. He's going to have business dinners that he has to go to, see, and he'll listen to how I feel but if it's an event he believes he *has* to go to then he'll go anyway.

"Like your own birthday party at a public restaurant?" I asked.

Silence.

I am under no illusions about this. This is the same excuse he used for running around with his female co-workers behind my back -- it was all necessary and unavoidable because they were working together, it was expected of him, blah blah <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The reason this POJA is so vitally important to me is his 10-year history of lying and witholding information about his activities with his female co-workers. It's not something I just decided to do to make his life miserable. It is very, very important to me in light of his history and the things he freely chose to do.

There will always be some reason why he *has* to go to this stuff without me. There will always be some reason why he just can't get out of it, even though he is a high-level manager fond of bragging that "he's the boss and can do whatever he wants."

He feels that I am completely unreasonable in asking for this -- for wanting both of us to be in agreement about one of us socializing without the other. Of course, what I call "socializing" he will INSIST is "work," including his off-site birthday party, so there's no point in arguing over that anyway. He will win every time.

Would some of you please tell me whether you have an agreement like this in place, and what you had to do to get it?

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,412
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,412
Hi pb,

Sounds like your situation is still about the same. You asked if anyone has an agreement about this kind of stuff....and I have one with my H. How did I get it? Well, I wouldn't recommend it....it actually was one of the conditions to stay married to him after his A. I also got him interested in MB.....again part of the conditions for reconciliation.

You can't POJA an issue with someone who doesn't believe in the POJA. He won't give up what he wants to do because he knows that all you'll do is complain and make threats....you won't actually enforce the boundaries that matter. You guys have been fighting over the same issue for three years...the approach hasn't really changed and results haven't really changed either.

Try something different PB. Stop beating your head against the wall....and either focus on you (instead of him) or draw your line in the sand and defend it. If you can't accept this...then don't....separate and go to Plan B (after some kind of Plan A....even if it's short...even if it's just a letter).

I know you are frustrated....I don't blame you. But the way you communicate with your husband....sounds demanding and sarcastic....sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Perhaps that's just in the retelling....since I wasn't there....I only have your account of it. There is such a deep bitterness in all of your posts because this recurring nightmare is just destroying your happiness. At this rate....you can't hold on to eachother's love much longer.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Want the truth.....?

P-B

If I were as unhappy as you seem to be, I'd leave.

Why don't you? What keeps you stuck?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
PB, if he already said no, I don't know what you expect us to say. There aren't any magic words that will make him bend to your will. It seems to me like you are beating a dead horse. Your constant demands come across a disrespectful judgements and never get you anywhere. You aren't going to change him.

Slap me silly for being trite, but the following prayer came to mind when I read your post:

God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I Cannot change…

Courage to change the things I can

And Wisdom to know the difference…

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 227
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 227
psycho-b

Ditto to what Pepperband said.

You said this has been going on for 10 years!!!

You want him to conform to what you want. He doesn't want to and it seems like he will never want to.

So, you either accept him for the way he is or you do something for yourself. Make yourself happy.

Why do you stay with him? You're very stuck and this doesn't sound like the kind of relationship you want. It's up to you to make yourself happy. Don't expect for your H to make you happy. He is obviously not going to change. Time to stop banging you head against the wall.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
M
Mulan Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
Thank you all for your responses. I know you are right. I just could not believe that after all we have been through, and with everything else going well for several weeks, he would pull this AGAIN at his own birthday party -- not invite me and leave me in the dark about it, and then insist that telling about it after the fact IS "letting me know what's going on."

Why do I stay? Because outside of his work life, we have a very good relationship. For reasons known only to him, he decided long ago that he wanted work and home kept entirely separate and will not budge on that one. No one can have a real marriage when you insist on cutting your spouse out of literally half your life, but that's what he wants.

The good side of the relationship makes me stay. It fools me and makes me think I can change things. Eventually I will have to accept that even though I'm married to him, I can't have all of his life. I can only have half of it because that's the way he wants it.

Yes, my head hurts from beating it against the wall he's put up around his work life, but I had to try. I have a family to think of and I had to hang in for as long as I possibly could. But he will win in the end. He's been winning all along.
He will win in the end.

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,028
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,028
He will win in the end???

That's the biggest basket of boo hoo I've seen in a long time. I'd say ever, but my dad was the king of the 'poor me pity party' so he might have one up on you.

Psycho, if he wins, it's because YOU LET HIM. HE does not control your life, YOU DO. If you give him the reigns, that is still YOUR CHOICE.

I have a sister in law who is JUST LIKE YOU. She tries to play the victim about her life all the time. I used to sympathise, since I felt I had the same problems with my H. Then I grew up. Gawd am I glad I grew up. No one even likes to be around people who blame all their problems on everyone else. I still love my sister in law like a real sister, but it becomes difficult to restrain myself from choking her as she ignores everyone telling her that this is all HER CHOICE, NOT HIS FAULT.

GROW UP!!!!! Or don't...it's totally your choice...but don't blame it on anyone else.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
M
Mulan Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
hope4future, I have done everything I can to stop letting him have his cake and eat it too -- I have tried to reason with him, I have dug in my heels and fought him right back, I have checked and re-checked everything I could, I have let him reassure me that he understands now and this will never happen again, I have been *sure* I've had all the bases covered -- until I get blindsided yet AGAIN.

That's what I mean by "He will win in the end." He is so determined to keep two separate lives that he is willing to do things it would never dawn on me to do and that I would never think HE would do -- but then he *does* do them, and I am fooled and blindsided again.

This is "marriagebuilders," right? I have stayed because I do want my marriage, I do want my family, and I do have a 15-year-old son who still needs a mom at home.

I am not a victim. I am well aware that I am here because I choose to stay. Yes, I am angry and I am hurt down to the bone. I come to the MB site because I have no one else to talk to about this and I keep hoping that maybe I will figure out a way to get through to him.

I'm having an especially hard time today because he's on an out-of-state business trip again. Sorry to unload it on all of you.

If I'm a victim, I'm a victim of false hope and false optimism. I STILL fall for what he tells me. I am STILL swayed and persuaded by the good times we have and think this means that the rest of it will change, too, and it hurts no less when I find out AGAIN that he does not intend to change anything about his work situation.

I do not give up easily on things that are important to me. I would not have hung in and gotten seven novels published and into bookstores if I did. I'd probably be better off if I was willing to quit, but a 20-year marriage with children is a hard thing to walk away from.

If my posts are annoying, then please just ignore them. I do not have anyone else to talk to about this.

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,028
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,028
Your husband has no reason to change. He knows you, he knows you will hang on, he knows you will keep trying, he knows the right things to say and he knows you will not leave. He knows that you will find out things, and he knows how you will react to them. You still dance the same dance, so he has NO REASON to change. It's a pattern, it's a habit. He won't change until he's FORCED TO DO SO. He can only be forced to do so when the situation changes...which only changes if YOU CHANGE. What are YOU doing to change YOU?? I DON'T mean Plan A.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
M
Mulan Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
hope4future, you are right and I do agree with you.

I'm working on this. I honestly thought I'd tried everything and had finally gotten through to him.

I will let you know.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Miss *****,

H4F has been through more than just about anyone here on MB.

Listen to her wisdom. She speeks what she's lived.

YOUR plan should be about changing YOU .... not changing HIM. THAT is winning, my dear Miss *****!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
M
Mulan Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,140
Do any of you have any suggestions on how I should change? I have always felt that two wrongs don't make a right. I want to be here for my family and do the right thing. I have a young teenage son who still needs me. I don't want to behave like a complete jack@ss and neglect my family's emotional well-being the way my husband has done.

I am not really a psycho_b*tch at all, not in person (except when the rage takes over when I have to talk about his girlfriends and listen to him insist they're not girlfriends etc etc ad nauseaum <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I do not know what else I can do to effect any change around here. I wanted a real marriage with this man. I can't have it, but I'm not willing to leave, either, for a number of reasons. That's why I can't do a 100% Plan B or I would have done that a long time ago just to save myself a lot of torment.

By "change myself," do you mean just back off, live a separate life and stop trying to change what obviously cannot be changed? Or is there anything else you feel I should do?

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,028
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,028
Good questions PB.

Can you see your own faults? We all have them...and no one is expecting perfection. But we each have things that can use improvement. Improving ourselves can lead to greater self worth. Greater self worth leads to greater self esteem. Creating a better us makes us PROUD! Pride makes us HAPPY! The happier, more adjusted and proud of yourself you are...the more clear everything seems to become.

So the question is what do YOU want to improve? Not what do you do to get his attention...cause things are good there except his dual work/home life. So let that be...just accept it as it is for now. Release the power it currently has over you, because according to you it has not changed, and doesn't look to, and you still don't intend to leave (which is fine)...so accept that this is the way it is...for now.

The next step is to take the next step. I'd love to see you do that.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,474
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,474
Vigilante tactics are DOA. If he hasn't bought into making you happy, you can't convince him. Try reading a book called The Solo Spouse.

I have had a lot of reasons for not leaving the relationship either: a firm adherence to the Catholic teaching against remarriage and four children under the age of 10.

BUT I will no longer tolerate life like this. Last week, he said I was evil and that's why he had an affair. You know what? He had an affair because he thought he could get away with it. Once I found out, IF I found out, he could plead reform and say it's up to me to forgive him and I need to be committed to our marriage in order for the marriage to work.

This isn't a marriage. That's what I've had to face. I've been maid, nanny, and unpaid whore, not wife. I have degraded myself to the point of nearly having a nervous breakdown on the night I found out he had been having an A. I have a lump in the middle of my forehead from being injured by him in January, 1998, and a 4 inch scar from three surgeries for a broken arm. The physical violence was inconsequential emotionally compared with the torment I experienced in his openly taunting me about his relationship with Sophia.

No thank you. My children need me to set an example for them. I need to have the self-respect and dignity to "throw the bum out" (as my mother bluntly put it) rather than have angry outbursts in an attempt to convince him that he needs to treat me better. My angry outbursts simply helped him to justify his own behavior.

Face it: He knows that he is hurting you. HE DOESN'T CARE!!!! Now what are you going to do about it?

<small>[ August 22, 2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,938
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,938
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Face it: He knows that he is hurting you. HE DOESN'T CARE!!!! Now what are you going to do about it? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been away from MB for a while, and have lurked some, but stopped posting since my own situation has remained stuck deep in limbo, BUT this comment really spoke to me, loud and clear. It describes my H, to a "T".

For me, it's just about time (we're talking weeks here) where my H gets two choices and two choices only: marriage and REALLY working on it starting NOW, or divorce, no more time to dilly dally and let him "try to decide what he wants."

"What am I going to do about it?" Well, I am most likely leaving the man that thinks I deserve this kind of treatment. Things haven't really changed in 15 months, and I have learned that I can't change other people, especially my husband, no matter how hard I try. So for me it's time to move on, and eventually find someone who will truly care about me.

However, psycho_b, your situation is different than mine because you have a child. However, perhaps there comes a point where you'd make better parents living separately rather than together if his treatment of you hurts you and isn't going to change, and you don't think you can live with things the way they are. You may be happier without your H, who knows. Maybe even a trial separation would be worth a shot, but by the sounds of things it's not an option you're interested in at all, right?

JMHO,

Jen

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,755
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,755
Psycho,

Have you thought about individual or joint counseling, or have you already tried it? What about meds to help you calm down? Christian counseling or prayer groups?

Above are just a few things that have helped me some. I feel for you, it sounds hard. I am sorry your h is so smug. You do have the power to change the dynamic by changing you... and what you accept and how you act.

Hugs, H


Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,071 guests, and 57 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5