Yesterday I discovered some new things about my FWW affair. Last night I asked her about them. She answered my questions but in answering them she admitted some lies she had told my before. Last April we sat down and had our Q&A regarding the A. She admitted to lying to me about most things she told me then. Last night she cleared the air.

The biggest thing is that her A started only 2 or 3 weeks after we were married, not 2 months like she told me before.

I guess I don't know if I should beleive her now or not. I don't know the truth anymore and feel that divorce is the only option so I can find someone who is faithful and honest.

I called the radio show today and Bill Harley says he thinks it is a wonderful step forward in our M. I just don't share his optimism.

Thanks all for your help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

STTSI,

I think U R at a turning point. She knows the truth but now this is new news to you. Digesting this with the other undigesting info (it was chewed and swallowed) but now it seems to be coming up and making you sick, right? Sorry for being so graphic.

However, Steve sees this postive for you. Believe it or not. Also for her since if this is the truth, you may see a change in her demeanor. Lying makes one look bad, physically, mentally and emotionally. Being truthful makes one look youthful. WS's eventually figure that out. But most are quite slow since they are in the fog. After a while, all of this is easy to see for most people but hard to explain.

For you, this may bring some relief. Pain but with relief. It will help your healing regardless of where it takes you (M recovery or D).

JMHO,
L.

duplicate post.

<small>[ August 21, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

triplicate post.

<small>[ August 21, 2003, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Yikes!!! Quadruple post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ August 21, 2003, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

STTSI-

I have to agree with Harley.

When your W told you these revelations last night, did you feel that she was being honest during that time?

I know it's hard for you to belive her now. What you're going through I think is a very normal part of the process.

From my point of view, I think the Mrs. is finally feeling "safe" enough to be able to spill her guts not ony to you, but to herself too. Sometimes it's extremely hard to fess up to how BAD the things that you did were.

For you, it's D-day all over again. For her, it's finally cleansing herself of her past and facing who she was and is.

She is now at a place where she can see and accept how dmaging her actions were. Sure she could have taken the hard way out and continued to lie, but for the first time she finally showed you just how ugly her world was.

Yes, you do have the option right now of walking away and D'ving her, but is it REALLY what you want?

In my very humble opinion, you both have reached a new place in your recovery. I feel that you made progress and with pain comes new lessons. Get through your anger and THEN see what you feel...

Hugs to you my friend...

STTSI I'm going to ask you stunned_dad's question to half_full_glass (from Can't get past the need for revenge ):

IS WHAT YOU HAVE NOW WHAT YOU WANTED ALL ALONG?.

When you let your emotions dictate your actions you run the risk of them leading you astray like they lead her when she gave in to them and had her A. Don't make the same mistake she made, for no matter what happens with your marriage, she will have to live with it for the rest of her life.

Thanks to all of you for your responses.

Also for her since if this is the truth, you may see a change in her demeanor. Lying makes one look bad, physically, mentally and emotionally. Being truthful makes one look youthful. WS's eventually figure that out.

Orchid- I hope this helps her out so she can find happiness. I just don't know which truth to accept. Will there be another new truth later down the road? When will the truth really be the truth?

When your W told you these revelations last night, did you feel that she was being honest during that time?

Kily- Yes I did but then again, I thought she was truthful then also. I can no longer tell the truth from the lies anymore. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

For you, it's D-day all over again.

Yes it felt like d-day all over... I felt my world slipping away again.

Yes, you do have the option right now of walking away and D'ving her, but is it REALLY what you want?

No, this is never what I have wanted. But how many times must I reach out only to get stomped on again? I know this sounds like the victim which is not what I want, but come on...

When you let your emotions dictate your actions you run the risk of them leading you astray like they lead her when she gave in to them and had her A.

TMCM- Don't worry I won't let that happen. I am too logical for that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OK, on a brighter side... Update.

W and I sat and talked for quite some time after work. We haven't reached any conclusions yet but I think we understand more clearly the other side. Do I want to beleive her? Yes. My question is how do I know the truth from the lies? She can look me straight in the eyes and lie to me. How do I know which is lie and which is truth? I am sick of all the BS (not betrayed spouse). I don't want a Dv but I am sick of the lies and deception.

I asked my W what she would do if the roles were reversed, she said she would be at her wits end. That is exactly how I feel. Darned if I do and darned if I don't... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Anger about what she said? No, only sadness that we are back to square one in our recovery. I feel that the last five months have been a waste of time.

more later...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">STTSI:

"I feel that the last five months have been a waste of time."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Careful with those feelings logical man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

STTSI:

I agree with Harley. There's a lot 2 be optimistic about here.

Think about it. You KNOW this recovery stuff is a process. You must be realizing, like I am lately, that it takes a ton of courage for a FWS 2 open up completely 2 you. I know that's the case over here in the 2long household. Sometimes even now I wonder what I'm doing here. But I have those times when we're being pressured from all sides with the house, the W's new job, the W's OLD job! (!), and on... And it's when we have days like these that I start dwelling on whether I'm getting complete honesty or not. And you know what? I have decided not 2 expect it yet. I'm doing better all the time not pressuring her about the A. I know a "lot" about what happened, but I certainly don't know much in the way of dates or specifics about encounters. I don't THINK I need 2 either, but I figure I may at some point in time. When, or if, I do, I want 2 be "safe enough" 2 my W that she'll be willing and able 2 volunteer information without worry that I'll fly off the handle.

I'm rambling... ...but I think you get what I mean. Regaining, or even building trust for the first time takes courage on the parts of 2th of you. You've been in recovery only a short time. Give the process the time, and 2ls, 2 work, okay?

-2long

STTSI,

Your role reversal question was good. It will play back in her mind even when you are not there. This is a good thing. Better it drive her nuts than you.

Another question I asked was: "When will I know you are lying?"

The response I got was: 'you probably won't.'

My reply: "hm......"

WS: what does that mean?

BS: change facial expression to: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> & <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
(well almost, can't find the one here that I did - LOL!!).

L.

Do you know WHY she changed her story from 2 months to 2 weeks? Did you discover something fishy and asked her, and she admitted it? Or did she tell it freely?
If the latter is the case then I'd say it's a good sign - because it came out freely.

N

Thank you all for hanging in here with me...

TMCM
Careful with those feelings logical man.


All these feeling are a new thing for me. I am not used to being so emotional. I told my W once that this must be what PMS feels like. At least she smiled at that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2long
that it takes a ton of courage for a FWS 2 open up completely 2 you.

I know that it takes a lot of courage, it also takes a lot of courage to admit to an affair. Last April, I gave her my list of questions which she promised to answer honestly. I beleived those answers then, only to find out that they were lies. So now since she promised honesty last April and lied then, how do I know that she is being honest now? She said she is but she used that line before???

2long
And it's when we have days like these that I start dwelling on whether I'm getting complete honesty or not. And you know what? I have decided not 2 expect it yet.

I expect it because it one of my top EN's which is not being met along with my other top EN's. I think it is sad for someone to not expect honesty from another. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

2long
I'm doing better all the time not pressuring her about the A.

I hardly mention the A anymore, the only reson I did was that I found new evidence that conflicted with past stories (truth?). For a long time I kept asking her about the A. She would get angry and ask when will it end, I would say when I am satisfied I have the truth. So I asked her the other day if she was hoping I would quit asking so the she wouldn't have to admit the truth, she said yes. So I guess I am glad that I keep asking and don't just let it go and move on. But now when do I move on?

2long
When, or if, I do, I want 2 be "safe enough" 2 my W that she'll be willing and able 2 volunteer information without worry that I'll fly off the handle.

She is always afraid that I will hit her when I am angry. I have NEVER raised a hand at her and I NEVER would. I also didn't fly off the handle when she told me this new info. However, I did LB, big time. I was hurt, more devestated, and I let it show by being angry. Not good. <hanging my head in shame and waiting for the MB 2X4> The sad thing I noticed is that even though I was crushed, I couldn't even muster up a tear. Before I would have cried but not this time. Interesting. Yes I know, a guy who cries, it does happen on rare occasions ladies.

Orchid
Another question I asked was: "When will I know you are lying?"

The response I got was: 'you probably won't.'

My reply: "hm......"

WS: what does that mean?

BS: change facial expression to: &
(well almost, can't find the one here that I did - LOL!!).

I have asked her the same thing. Her response "you have no way of knowing and no reason to believe me." Truthful but sad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I told her last night that I still think she is lying to me about things but that they are so deeply hidden I won't know for years the truth unless she tell me. Silence on her end...

Orchid- How is Hawaii? We went there for our honeymoon to enjoy wedded bliss... Does that really exist?

Nick123
Did you discover something fishy and asked her, and she admitted it? Or did she tell it freely?

I discovered something that didn't jive with the past stories. She clarified that issue so I figured I was on a roll and asked her about other things. That was when she admitted it on her own. I had no new proof before her, just a question. So yes, I guess she voluntered it on her own. I have always wondered since about half of her stories don't jive with the few fact that I do have, this being one of them. This new truth seems to match my facts better that the last truth of hers. The problem is she is so good at lying that I can't tell the difference anymore.

On a brighter side... W said yesterday that she would help pay for the house expenses so I can afford to do some IC also. She has being seeing her own counselor for months but I had to quit due to budget concerns.

Also, this is one I loved. When W was telling me the "truth" the other day. She told me about more lies from her mom and also told me that mom dropped W off on dates with OM. She dropped her off so that W could sleep with OM and not have to worry about hiding her car so the hubby wouldn't know... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> And MIL wonders why I want nothing to do with her???

Also, for those of your who forgot or didn't know in the first place, W posts here also.

I was thinking of purchasing "Private Lies" or "When Your Lover Is A Liar" Any thoughts on these books???

Thanks!

dont know the books. out of interest - under which handle does your wife post here?

STTSI,

First thing I want you to understand is that what I am about to post IS NOT ADVICE. It is just me ruminating about your situation.

It seems to me that you have NEVER been married. So you are NOT fighting to keep this marriage alive.

It seems to me you are and your W are not acting married, when she can agree to help pay for household items (mortgage, whatever) so you can afford to go to IC.

It seems to me she is a lot like her mother. I was told as a young man that if you wanted to know who you are marrying, look at her mother. Dr. Phil, who is on at night here, made a comment as I was channel surfing last night, that the single most influencial person is most peoples lives is there "same sex parent".

It seems to me that unless your W made a very conscious effort to NOT be like her mother, you already know her views on the vows of marriage.

I am not saying people cannot change, but I am saying your W has not changed YET. Hence the lies. Now in her defense she may well think, I had the affair and he knows. The affair started shortly after we were married, and he knows. Does it matter if it was 2 days or 2 months?

I do know one thing, this affair was not about you as a husband, you didn't have a chance to screw up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

What to do? I do not know what to offer you for advice, hence the comment that this is NOT advice to you. I guess, I would probably view this as I AM NOT MARRIED. Then the only question left is this a woman I would want to be married to? If the answer were a strong YES, then I would go for it. If it was a strong NO, I would leave. If it was a maybe, then I would wait and see if she does indeed continue to become her mother or if she can find another female to model herself after.

Just thoughts, no conclusions really. You are in a very very hard situation. I do agree you finally got honesty and it was "sort of" voluntary. At least I think you got honesty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

So after all of this rambling, I guess what is missing is what your W has done and said since this discovery. Is anything really changing? any new insights on her part? How does she view her mother's actions now? For that matter did her mother want her to marry the OM?

So strange. I wish you well my friend.

God Bless,

JL

STTSI have you read Dave Carder's 'Torn Asunder'? John39 has said in some of his posts that it has a much better recovery plan than MB's so you might want to purchase that book if you haven't done so already.

Nick123- She posts under "imready2try" but she doesn't post often here anymore.

JL- You words have given me much to think about. You are right, I am not fighting to save our M, I am struggling to start something that should have started over a year ago.

My W has changed, just not into the person that I am looking for, yet... We did sign up for the MB conference in Orlando next month, hopefully we will both be able to tkake something away from that. Yes, my W is just like her mom. I have told her that for years, she has only done things when she has the consent of her mom. I have been trying to get her to stand on her own two feet for years and to make her own decisions. In fact, she spoke to her dad the other day and he said the reason they (her parents) got divorced is because her mom had an A while married to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Since we are not talking to her mom, she hasn't asked her yet but this doesn't come as a great shock to me. However, my W has always thought the world of her mom so this is a big shock for her to realize her mom is not the angel she has always thought.

JL- Yes I agree she can change, I just don't know if I have the strenght to hang on long enough for that to happen. My Love Bank is back in negative territory and I am getting tired of rebuilding my world all the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Did MIL want W to marry OM? I asked W and she said "I never asked, but my hunch is that she would have said OM is better for you than STTSI." My answer, yes MIL wanted them together. MIL wants anything she can for her daughter, even at the expense of others. MIL says she has learned her mistakes. I disagree and think if given the situation again, she would respond the same.

TMCM- Have not read that book, maybe I will get them all and never stop reading. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

STTSI remember that recovery is a one day at a time process that can't be rushed otherwise you'll only end up feeling that your marriage is a yoke around both of your necks. Try to concentrate on each day and making it the best you can. Remember the ol' saying 'fake it til' you make it' because it can really help you weather the hard times.

BTW if you hadn't guessed already I'm TMCM's evolved alter ego.

Juan- I recall that steroids make certain parts of the male body smaller than otherwise would be...

I guess it is hard for me to fake being happy about dishonesty. I have always hated lying.

The steroids are just in name not in deed. Besides Mrs TMCM would do a Lorena Bobbit on yours truly if she found out I was taken them evil pills <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

You can be happy because of a lot of other reasons such as your health, your job, and your loved ones. Aren't those enough reasons to be happy about?