i hope some of you know my story cause i dont want to go in to it all again but heres a breif recap. wife took vacation to hawaii with girl friend. came back and was very cold and indifferent. said she didnt know what she wanted to do needs space. during that period we found that we quit comunicating with openness and honesty and that we were not meeting each others emontional needs over the last 5 years. 3 weeks after she got back she told me that she met a guy there. next day i gave her an ulimatum she moved in with her parents (july 14). we have been up and down since then. about 2 weeks ago we started getting along real well and all things were looking good. last wednesday she left for another vactation to sacramento to see the same girlfriend. we were getting along great we talk several times on her way down there. then that was it she was cold and indiferent again. she said she would call me sunday she never did. finally i had my daughter call her and she called back on monday. i new something was up and that she had finally made her decision. she got back on wednesday stopped by to pick up our daughter. she was still scared to talk to me but i wasnt going to let her put it off any longer. we went in to the back room and she told me it was over. i pleaded my case for a few minutes. then i asked if the guy from hawaii was there. she said yes he was it wasnt planned it was a spur of the moment thing. i asked did you sleep with him she said yes. i asked do you think that the fact that he was there affected you decision. she said no it has nothing to do with it. (well i dont buy that one bit.) i asked her if this is what she really wants and she said yes. i said well if this is what you want you need to do what will make you happy. i took of my ring gave it to her and said have a nice life. i stood up pulled her up gave her a big hug and said that i still want to make things work dont make a rash decission and i will be her for you. then kind of escorted her to the door.

i have no clue what to do from this point. she wont listen to anything i say. i think i should implement the 180 list and go from there try to show her that i am moving on. but not sure that might only make things worse. i want to ask for my ring back but not sure if thats a good idea either. i have to see her late this afternoon to drop off her dog. then i should see her again tomorrow for daughters Bday party with all the family there. i dont know if i can handle it or if i should even go if i think i can handle it.

please give me some feed back and ideas i dont want this to be over. but i dont want to keep going through this hell for ever either.

also anybody know any thing about legal seperation vs divorce

thanks for your help

<small>[ August 23, 2003, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: jbpal ]</small>

If you don't conquer your fear of losing your WW(wayward wife) and marriage, then your fear will sabotage all your well thought out planned efforts every time she gives you signals that she is moving on. How do you lose the fear? By accepting and making peace with the possibility that your marriage MAY be over. Is it over? Not until you get served with divorce papers and the divorce becomes finalized. No one can guarantee you that by following the most perfect Plan A/Plan B and the 180 degree list that you will be able to save your marriage BUT you will have the knowledge that by implementing them you are giving your marriage its best shot to be saved. So are you going to conquer your fear?

Read and reread what Too Much Coffee has written.
It is your own fear of the unknown that is a hugh problem for you. You can't make someone love you if they are dead set against it. By the way how could you possibly believe that the guy she had sex with in Hawaii just happened to be in Sacremento to have sex with her again? I don't see how she could of told you this without choking on her own words. Clearly it was planned and I think you know this yourself. Right now you are in shock but think about it and ask yourself if you would really want to be with someone who leaves on her visits and has sex with another guy. You need to contact an attorney to understand your options. The more you beg and plead the more she will be turned off to you. She keeps betraying and humiliating you and you plead more that you love her. Why would she respect that if she perceives you as a doormat? Again contact an attorney to understand your rights and options and remember you were a total person before you met her and you will be a total person afterwards.
I wish you luck.

You may be interested in reading this paragraph from Pops response to Murph94 :

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">in my own experience with this i was completely lost when all this hell came out in the open. i felt that there was no way i could go on without my w in my life. it seemed that i was trapped in at every turn. financialy, how could i raise my kids alone, how could i manage as head of my household without her, how could i explain this to my kids and tuck them in at night with tears in their eyes. but as i was living through the trials i realized that i was in fact doing everything i was so afraid of anyway. this gave me a feeling of freedom. then i heard a pat benitar (sp?) song "i'm gonna harden my heart" and things fell into place. i was not rude to fullhouse (fh) (my w) or mean to her in any way. i just started to make plans for a life without her. i prepared divorce papers, started changing the house out of her name, let her know matter of factly that when she left she could take any and all things she wanted out of the house. there was Nothing here that made me feel sentimental or was worth me fighting with her over. and i started going out with friends without her. i didn't allow myself to fall into an A but i even went to a reunion with an old friend (female) from school. these were huge things in her decision to try and come back and work on our marriage. she told me that it made her realize that i was just eraseing her from my life.

i had no intention of doing that and in mb terms i quess that was a form of plan A.

interesting fact here is that when i first felt she was falling into her early EA my friends told me to do exactly those things i mentioned above. i refused as i was in denial or to blind to believe that she would actually have an affair. you know what they say about hind sight.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you see how conquering your fear, accepting and making peace with the possibility of the end of the marriage can in many cases help save it?

you know guy i dont want my marriage to still work but i am ready to move on i am not afraid of loosing my wife just dont want to totaly give up at this point.

i got a call from her this morning and she chewed me out for sending her parrents the following letter. she was pissed because i went behind her back and told them everything i know. she says that if i would have asked her she would have told me that she told them everything. here is the letter.

"Dear MIL and FIL

well I don't really know what to say. I want to let you know that I love (wife) very much, and despite what has happened I still want our marriage to work. I don't know what she has told you so I will tell you what I know. I have made some mistakes in our marriage like I said before I wasn't always there emotionally for (wife) the way she needed me to be. I have remained faithful to her throughout or marriage except my internet friendship which I told you about before. when (wife) was in Hawaii she called me and I could barely hear what she was saying cause the reception was so bad. she later told me that she thought I was pissed off at her cause I wasn't saying anything. well I wasn't mad I just couldn't hear her. after she got back from Hawaii she was very cold and indifferent towards me. I suspected something was wrong but she wouldnt really tell me anything other than the fact she didn't know what she wanted in her life. I kept pushing for information. I found clues and hints that something was up. finally she told me that she had met a guy in Hawaii and said that they were just friends. I accepted that and told her that if we were to have a chance to make things work that she needed to break off contact with him. the Monday that she moved out I basically gave her an ultimatum me or him well that was obviously a mistake looking back at it. a few day later when I told her about my internet affair she told me that there was more to this guy (matt) in Hawaii. she told me because of that phone call she out of spite kissed and hugged him. I accepted that but was not 100% sure that was all that had happened. we were getting along really well for the last few days before she left for Sacramento. but after she left it was a different world again she was once again cold and indifferent. I kept trying to get her to talk with me but she wouldn't. at this point I pretty much new what was going to happen when she got back. today when she got back she told me that it was over. I asked her some questions tried to tell her that I want to make things work. then I finally asked if matt was there and she said yes it was a spur of the moment thing it was not planned. then I asked if she slept with him and again the answer was yes. we just talked for a few minutes and I eventually told her if she really wants a divorce that she needs to do what she wants I don't agree with it but if this is what is going to make you happy that's what you have to do. with that I handed her my ring and said have a good life. we talked a little bit more and I told her that I don't want her to make a rash decision and that I am here for her if she wants me and gave her a hug.

I know this is alot to take. I pray that she will realize that what has happened in the last week when she was in Sacramento was obviously swayed her decision. I don't know what the right thing is all I know is I don't feel like I have been given a fair chance to show (wife) that I am still the man she fell in love with and that now that I realize the mistakes I have made in the past by not always opening up to her that I can be that man too. I have grown tremendously in the last 2 months. if I knew the things I have learned be reading books we wouldnt be where we are at today.

thank you for your support
I love you, MIL, FIL, W and daughter with all of my heart
jb"

well after getting her reaction to the letter i would say that she didnt tell her parents everything that was going on. i sent this letter on wednesday evening and talked to MIL of friday about noon and she said that W didnt really tell her anything that was going on and that she had not read all the letter at that point. what a circus i wonder who is really telling the truth. i would say she didnt not tell them a thing and that she is just pissed because its all out in the open now.

dont know if this is all good for making things work but i tell you what i feel that i can move on. i had to see her a few minutes yesterday to drop some stuff off. it was ruff i kept it under control. at the end gave my daughter a big hug told her i love her looked up at wife and she had that look that she was about to loose it. i simply looked at her and said what. she just im sad and started sobbing. i didnt say anything just looked at her and touched her lower back for a couple seconds and said well im going to go now see you later. turned and walked away before she could see the tears in my eyes.

i know this is a long post sorry. just kinda venting. i decided that i have to go to the birthday party for daughter today regaurdless of how awkward it will be. any help on what to do while i am there. it will be all adults her side of the family.

thanks
jb