I've been married for 8 years and with my husband for 15. We started dating in highschool and married shortly after college. I knew about 3 years into the relationship that something was missing. I just didn't know what. We broke up for a year to see other people but we still dated too. During that 'year off' I dated two men a couple of times. I decided that they were jerks and my H was 90% of what I wanted. So we got back together and everything seemed good. I was focused on moving forward, which included getting married and buying a house, having kids, etc. I convinced myself that he was the right one and we got married. Everything was going along as planned, we got the house, two kids, good careers, etc. However, I'm miserable. I recently had a miscarriage (4 months ago) and my emotional state became much more vunerable. My H seemed disappointed at the time of the miscarriage, but he didn't grieve like I grieved. I was 11 weeks along when it happened and it took 5 weeks before my hormones were back to normal. I have been unhappy in my career for two years and have had some really bad management that have taken their toll on my confidence level. Yet through all of this, I cry quietly at night when he can't see. Whenever I talk to him about issues at work or wanting a baby, he reacts in a way that turns me off. He says that he is happy with the two kids we have. He complains about my job because I work so much overtime. He's not empathetic at all. When I do come home early, he hands over the kids and jumps on the computer to play video games. If he's not doing that, he's watching the sports channel. Yet he thinks he can just pop into bed and expect to start foreplay whenever he's in the mood. We never go out just the two of us. I don't even want to. There is no 'us'.

So I was 'lured' by a coworker whom I've had many great conversations with over the past year. I was attracted to him right away, but able to resist. The miscarriage really seemed to change things for me. I needed more emotional support than ever. I was no longer tough and able to cope with things on my own. So a couple of weeks ago, it became apparant that the coworker and I had a chemistry. We ended up having a long dicussion in private about what we would do about it. He is also married with children. He has an 8 month-old baby too. I long for the baby, and I long for him. We gave into our temptations and had an affair. It was so passionate. I felt so good, I don't remember feeling that good. But the next day, he tells me that he made love to his wife that same evening and that he will always chose her over anyone. We continue to chat on-line and I still long for him. He seems to feel the same for me. I don't understand how he could do that to his wife since he says he loves her. I know why I did it. Now I'm just trying to figure out what to do about my marriage. I really don't want to make it work. I don't expect the OM to leave his wife. So I'm trying to decide whether I can leave my husband and potentially be alone. I think the kids will be ok if we both live nearby, just not together. I know people stay together for their kids. But our kids are so young. I can't bear the thought of staying with my H and never feeling the passion I felt with the OM. I'm not as tough as I was 4 months ago, I need more. Now that I have experienced a man that could provide 'more', I don't want to settle for what I have. I want my H to have more too. I just can't give that to him. Is there any chance that we can part peacefully and live happily ever after? He is the father of my children and they love him very much. I would enjoy meeting him at their t-ball games. But I don't enjoy laying next to him. I don't want to feel guilty for having an affair. I just want to move forward.

<small>[ August 24, 2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: confused & lonely ]</small>

Having an affair is bad, please stop whatever you are doing, believe me you will regret it in the end. It tears peoples lifes apart, both mentally and financially. You do love your husband somewhere inside you. And if you can't do it for your husband think of your children and how hurt they will be. Please take it from someone thats been there.

confused,

Welcome to the forum. I suspect you may get blasted a bit....not because you are a horrible person, but the lack of remorse will enrage some folks who have have been the victims of unfaithful spouses. As a betrayed spouse myself, I can tell you that infidelity is probably the hardest thing I've ever had to overcome in my life.....and you don't know my life LOL.

I've been married for 8 years and with my husband for 15. We started dating in highschool and married shortly after college. I knew about 3 years into the relationship that something was missing. I just didn't know what.

Believe it or not....what you are describing here, can actually be explained physically and scientifically. let me share this with you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From ABC news:

That sense of giddy disorientation, of unsinkable euphoria and utter obsession with a new love can be so overpowering that it’s hard to imagine it’s all just about emotion.
Now scientists are confirming there indeed may be a lot more going on in a body that’s in love than simply happy thoughts. In fact, a spate of recent studies has zeroed in on exactly what kind of chemical and brain activities occur at different stages of human and animal relationships.
While the results hardly make love any less mysterious, they do start to shed light on why it can make people feel so funny.
Doped Up
Helen Fisher, a research professor of anthropology at Rutgers University, believes the flush of a new love is enhanced by natural stimulants in the brain — dopamine and norepinephrine. She explains high levels of these natural chemicals can make people lose their appetites and their desire for sleep just thinking about their new infatuation.
“These are basic traits commonly associated with romantic love and with these natural stimulants,” she says. “What else could explain the way you constantly think about a person, about the way you want to read them your bad poetry?”
Researchers in London, meanwhile, have recorded changes in the brains of people who described themselves as “truly and madly” in love. The researchers, Andreas Bartels and Semir Zeki at University College London used a functional magnetic resonance imager to scan the brains of 17 love-happy volunteers. The team also used lie detectors to screen against any possible exaggerators.
When the team showed the volunteers photos of their loved ones, the results were dramatic.

Crazy in the Brain
“There are four small areas of the brain in which activity goes up and that increase correlates with their viewing of the picture of the person they are in love with,” says Zeki.
Old friends, apparently, don’t quite cause the same stir. When Zeki and Bartels showed the volunteers photos of their old friends, the clear-cut chemical changes in the brain were not visible. Zeki further points out that the four areas of the volunteers’ brains that responded so wildly to images of loved ones are the same regions that respond to euphoria-inducing drugs.
The parts, Zeki explains, “are active in euphoric states generated by exogenous substances such as cocaine. Romantic love is for many people… intoxicating.”
Fisher is conducting similar studies, and is scanning the brain activity of people newly in love. She says it isn’t hard finding volunteers for the experiments, since “people in love usually want to talk about it.”
As most know, however, the rush people feel from new love usually doesn’t last forever. And Fisher is also interested in understanding the biological stimulants and anthropological explanations for all phases of love. She argues that there are three main stages to a love relationship: lust, romantic love and attachment.
The first, she says, is “to get you looking for anything at all” and is driven by hormones like testosterone. The romantic love phase, which creates the brain chemical reactions described by the London researchers, serves to “force you to focus your mating energy on one person at a time.” And the final, less steamy stage of attachment is to ensure that any children produced by a love match have parents at least through their early years.
“I think that’s because for millions of years our ancestors had to pair up at least until their child emerged from infancy,” she says.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This kind of chemical euphoria lasts for about 3 to 4 years....and most likely is part of the reason that you suddenly felt like something was missing. Without moving into the next stage of love, a more mature love....one that requires energy, understanding, and not just chemicals....it's hard to sustain love. Instead, here's what the two of you did:

We broke up for a year to see other people but we still dated too. During that 'year off' I dated two men a couple of times. I decided that they were jerks and my H was 90% of what I wanted. So we got back together and everything seemed good. I was focused on moving forward, which included getting married and buying a house, having kids, etc. I convinced myself that he was the right one and we got married.

You say you made a commitment, but it sounds as though you felt as though you just "settled" for something you thought you SHOULD want....not the best start I think. And not the state of mind for a healthy marriage. You began your marriage with dishonesty, and only continued that pattern in the years to come. How did your husband even have a chance when you'd already just settled?

Everything was going along as planned, we got the house, two kids, good careers, etc. However, I'm miserable. I recently had a miscarriage (4 months ago) and my emotional state became much more vunerable. My H seemed disappointed at the time of the miscarriage, but he didn't grieve like I grieved. I was 11 weeks along when it happened and it took 5 weeks before my hormones were back to normal.

It's not unusual for the woman having a miscarriage to grieve more deeply than the father. Afterall, not only is it your body...but your hormones. What I don't understand is that if you were so unhappy....why get pregnant in the first place?

I have been unhappy in my career for two years and have had some really bad management that have taken their toll on my confidence level.

I understand how this can affect your happiness...but how is that your H's fault? Why haven't you changed jobs?

Yet through all of this, I cry quietly at night when he can't see.

Okay...well this is a big part of the demise of your marriage. You are being dishonest with your spouse. Without knowing how unhappy you are, without telling him your feelings honestly....how do you expect him to help you? Do you think that if you had been honest enough to tell him that you were attracted to another man and were considering an affair, that he wouldn't have sit up and taken notice?

Whenever I talk to him about issues at work or wanting a baby, he reacts in a way that turns me off. He says that he is happy with the two kids we have. He complains about my job because I work so much overtime. He's not empathetic at all. When I do come home early, he hands over the kids and jumps on the computer to play video games. If he's not doing that, he's watching the sports channel. Yet he thinks he can just pop into bed and expect to start foreplay whenever he's in the mood. We never go out just the two of us. I don't even want to. There is no 'us'.

You can blame all of this on him....but I hope you will be open to realizing that a large portion of the failure and vulnerability of your marriage is your fault. If you don't like the way he responds, it's your responsibility to tell him that he is destroying your love for him when he doesn't listen to you. He has concerns about your job? Have you addressed HIS concerns? Reduced your work hours? Gotten a babysitter and planned some nights out alone with him. Without time together....your marriage and feelings of love will sink like a rock. There is no "US" because neither of you....and that includes YOU have done anything to nurture your marriage...instead you put your energy into someone else instead of your husband.

So I was 'lured' by a coworker whom I've had many great conversations with over the past year. I was attracted to him right away, but able to resist.

You made this choice. You can't be "lured" without your consent...and you gave it. You encouraged it, and you nurtured it.

The miscarriage really seemed to change things for me. I needed more emotional support than ever. I was no longer tough and able to cope with things on my own.

I believe this. But what were some other choices besides an affair? Counseling? Did you try that? Honesty with your H? Talking to your family or girlfriends? Anti-depressants? This does not justify an affair....it's a rationalization for a destructive act. I understand your vulnerability....but not your actions.

So a couple of weeks ago, it became apparant that the coworker and I had a chemistry. We ended up having a long dicussion in private about what we would do about it. He is also married with children. He has an 8 month-old baby too. I long for the baby, and I long for him.

Do you understand that your actions have the potential to destroy the life of that baby as well as the lives of your children? Are you really unaware of the effects of divorce on children? The chemicals released during infatuation destroy clear thinking. Your obsession with him, and his baby are unhealthy, and no matter what you do....I hope you will seek individual counseling and realize that this miscarriage is affecting your emotions in ways that will harm you. I suspect that you could have post partum depression....have you even considered getting treatment for that?

We gave into our temptations and had an affair. It was so passionate. I felt so good, I don't remember feeling that good. But the next day, he tells me that he made love to his wife that same evening and that he will always chose her over anyone.

Lovely <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Do you even realize how loathsome this image is? Or how devastated his wife would be to know? What is man thinking??? I know what he's thinking "with"?

We continue to chat on-line and I still long for him. He seems to feel the same for me. I don't understand how he could do that to his wife since he says he loves her. I know why I did it.

Why <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> would you still communicate with someone who has so little respect for both you AND his wife??? This man has no conscience...no ethics...he's poison to you.

Now I'm just trying to figure out what to do about my marriage. I really don't want to make it work. I don't expect the OM to leave his wife. So I'm trying to decide whether I can leave my husband and potentially be alone.

If you put the amount of effort into your marriage that you have put into your career and this affair....you could save your family and rebuild the love you once had. If you don't want to...why have you come here??? Divorce him. Or don't. But don't expect anyone here to understand this kind of selfish indulgence.

I think the kids will be ok if we both live nearby, just not together. I know people stay together for their kids. But our kids are so young. I can't bear the thought of staying with my H and never feeling the passion I felt with the OM.

The reason you can't build passion in your marriage is BECAUSE of the OM and the fact that you haven't nurtured you marriage (and neither has your husband). Have you even tried counseling, or using techniques that could enhance your marital relationship? Have you researched the effects of divorce on young children? You are rationalizing that as well as your reasons for cheating. Your immaturity and selfishness are astounding to me.

I'm not as tough as I was 4 months ago, I need more. Now that I have experienced a man that could provide 'more', I don't want to settle for what I have.

You aren't as sane as you were....because of the "fog" of infatuation and hormones. If you could end the affair....and have no contact...your sanity and strength may return. Until then, you are crippling your ability to be healthy or rebuild your marriage.

I want my H to have more too. I just can't give that to him.

Poppycock! You aren't acting in his best interest! This is ALL about YOU. You're running away....and "giving" who you really are...to someone else. I know your marriage was crummy BEFORE this affair...that's why you ended up where you are...but, the passion and "more" you are looking for is available to you (though I'm certain you won't believe me) in the context of your marriage. Do you think that everyone who is married doesn't experience a loss of passion in their marriage? All of us feel these things, and when it happens, it requires commitment and work to rekindle those feelings. But don't fool yourself by thinking it can't be done....it happens all the time here. It happened to me. But it CANNOT happen when you put your energy outside of your marriage...it won't happen. It will not happen if you fail to protect your spouse by acting selfishly.

Is there any chance that we can part peacefully and live happily ever after?

Sure. Many people leave marriages and go on to have happy lives. But I don't envision that for you until you can learn what love is really about....and it isn't just chemistry. You'll keep looking for that elusive "more" because you haven't learned to grow love. You need some counseling to work on yourself. Work through your grief issues. Understand how you have undermined the strength of your marriage with your selfishness. Understand how you can have no remorse.

He is the father of my children and they love him very much. I would enjoy meeting him at their t-ball games. But I don't enjoy laying next to him. I don't want to feel guilty for having an affair. I just want to move forward.

You don't want to feel guilty? Too bad. Because without guilt and true remorse, you will stagnate as a person. Making mistakes is human. I understand why you made this mistake, but your lack of remorse is disturbing to me. Without it, you will not move forward. without honesty you will live a lie. Without confronting your actions, you will not grow. If all you're looking for is chemistry, you'll have to keep changing partners.

If all you want is a divorce, you've come to the wrong place....sorry.

<small>[ August 24, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Star-That is some of the clearest advice I have seen here at this site. Confused and lonely should be less confused after reading and less lonely when she will work through some of this. And yes, feel that pain tempered with promise of good things will come out of the clarity gained.

How true about the efforts put forth into everything else but the marriage. This is universal. And she really needs to get some assistance on the grieving of the lost fetus. The hormonal changes and the mourning of that are real too.

Honesty is easier to do when we get some help to clarify why we feel...angry sad resentful . The blaming will cease and growth can happen.

Time patience protection and care, reading about them here is helpful...

Forgive me if I sound harsh but what the OM gave you was an escape from reality and he used you to satisfy his ego and his desire for some sex on the side. If he truly cared about you he would have been satisfied in being a true friend that would have encouraged you to do your best to save your marriage. And let's say that he left his wife to form a committed relationship with you, how long do you think that passion you felt would last? What makes you think that what he did to his wife he wouldn't do to you?

You have to face reality otherwise you are going to be in for a very sad awakening later on down the road.

Confused, I am glad you decided to post here. I think I can understand what you are going through. I’m going to offer some thoughts, and I hope you can find something in them. I apologize for the length…I just feel I can really relate to your situation.

I knew about 3 years into the relationship that something was missing. I just didn't know what.

That’s very typical C&L. I said the exact same thing! The more I read, counseled, and spent time on boards such as this one I came to better understand that feeling. I hope maybe you’ll decide to spend some time learning about this more before you make any life altering decisions (or should I say, any more).

I decided that they were jerks and my H was 90% of what I wanted. So we got back together and everything seemed good.

That’s GREAT! 90% is fantastic! My H was probly far less than that. I think a lot of people would LOVE to find someone 90% compatible! Most settle for someone who makes them laugh (and who has a job, if they have really high standards). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I was focused on moving forward, which included getting married and buying a house, having kids, etc. I convinced myself that he was the right one and we got married.

That sounds very typical also. I think most of us at that age do things that way.

Everything was going along as planned, we got the house, two kids, good careers, etc.

Wonderful!

However, I'm miserable. I recently had a miscarriage (4 months ago) and my emotional state became much more vunerable.

I’m so sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I have two friends who have lost children at birth. It’s incredibly difficult on a marriage, and on BOTH parents.

My H seemed disappointed at the time of the miscarriage, but he didn't grieve like I grieved.

That’s also VERY NORMAL! Honey, men do not typically grieve the same way women do. They pour themselves in to their work or in to projects around the house until the pain begins to subside. Then they go on. It tends to irritate and infuriate us women, because they just don’t analyze and pour over every detail like we do. It doesn’t mean he didn’t care. It doesn’t mean he didn’t hurt.

In the case of my first friend, neither of them grieved the baby very well. Two kids and several years later…they divorced. And according to BOTH of them, losing their first baby was what led to the eventual demise of their marriage.

But lets be truthful, it wasn’t the loss of the baby, it was how they grieved it…or rather how they didn’t grieve it properly. She said he wasn’t there for her, he said she wouldn’t let him be. I saw it from the sidelines…they were both right. It was very different in the case of my other friend. I’ll tell you about them some other time.

I have been unhappy in my career for two years and have had some really bad management that have taken their toll on my confidence level.

Okay now, I understand being unhappy in your career…that also is a very normal occurrence after some time. I’m not thrilled in my current line of work either…but mostly because I’m doing the same thing I was doing 6 years ago. I like change and variety!

And I’m sure bad management did not help you feel better about what you’re doing…BUT!!!...they don’t get to ruin your confidence level. That’s something that comes from within and if you become a stronger person you’ll find that no one can take away something like that unless you let them. It’s a very empowering thing to learn. It also means that you have to take personal responsibility for your feelings, however, which can be a huge responsibility. It’s easier to blame how you feel on someone elses actions or inactions.

Yet through all of this, I cry quietly at night when he can't see.

This is detrimental to your marriage, and certainly not helping you!!! I used to do the same type of thing. It doesn’t give your spouse the opportunity to try to help. When you shut him out, you withdraw…when you withdraw, you fall out of love. It’s a very logical occurrence. It makes perfect sense why you are at the place you are now.

Whenever I talk to him about issues at work or wanting a baby, he reacts in a way that turns me off.

His reactions are his choice. YOU make the choice to be ‘turned off’. You’re taking his reactions personally. That makes it difficult for him to talk to you. Eventually he won’t. Because unless he knows how to talk to you exactly how you want him to, he will feel that he will be in a lose-lose situation.

I used to set my H up for those type of situations all the time. Then I couldn’t figure out why he would never talk to me, why he wouldn’t listen to what I had to say. It’s a very curable problem. You two just need to learn how to communicate better. Kind of like everyone else on the planet!! He can learn! So can you!

He says that he is happy with the two kids we have. He complains about my job because I work so much overtime. He's not empathetic at all.

Okay, he’s expressing his feelings…they aren’t what you want to hear, but he is communicating with you! That second friend I told you about…they lost their baby (at birth) almost 2 years ago (this September). He wants another one, she’s okay with the 3 they have. But they are discussing it. He doesn’t take it personally that she may not want to try again, and she doesn’t take it personally that he wants another try. They aren’t disrespecting each other by not feeling the same way about it. They just feel differently on the matter. And both are okay with whatever decision they eventually make.

This woman, by the way, was extremely implemental in saving our marriage…I have the greatest respect for her and she’s a fantastic friend.

And on the issue of overtime…that can’t be good for your marriage either! You and your husband need time together, and you spending EXTRA time at a job that you’ve said sucks away your confidence and you aren’t happy in…well, it can’t be helping.

When I do come home early, he hands over the kids and jumps on the computer to play video games. If he's not doing that, he's watching the sports channel.

Yea, we had that problem too…before we even had kids! He’d plop his butt down on the sofa and fall asleep during a movie so I’d go in the computer room and play games or whatever. It’s a bad routine that people get in to…again, it’s typical. All this that you’re talking about has happened and is happening to good marriages all over the country! It’s FIXABLE! We did it…so I truly believe ANYONE can.

Yet he thinks he can just pop into bed and expect to start foreplay whenever he's in the mood.

Sorry, but I just HAD to laugh at that one. TYPICAL!! I think that’s the word of the day. How many women have you heard complain about that??? ALMOST ALL!! I think the book “Mars and Venus in the bedroom” explains that pretty well. Your husband probably has no idea the depth of withdrawal your in…I’m not sure you do either. To him, sex is love. He still loves you, feels that everything is ok, just a little down time, and it will all get back to normal before too long. Meanwhile, he just acts as if everything is fine…hoping it will be soon.

We never go out just the two of us. I don't even want to. There is no 'us'.

I said that too. And we didn’t go out much as a couple anymore. I didn’t enjoy his company so why even bother. I went out with my girlfriends, or we stayed home. My husband is now my best friend and I would have been the last person on earth to think that he ever could be. But it took some major learning on my part….some learning on his part…and a major change in our routine.

You HAVE to spend time together in order to have a relationship! It only makes sense! Read the information on the rest of this website…read Harleys books “His Needs Her Needs”, “Lovebusters”, “Surviving an Affair”, and the book by Dave Carder “Torn Asunder” if you want to better understand the cycle of relationships and how to change it. It sounds like a lot of reading, but the Harley books are quick reads with lots of examples. I got through them very quickly.

So I was 'lured' by a coworker whom I've had many great conversations with over the past year. I was attracted to him right away, but able to resist.

Surviving an Affair gets in to the hows and whys of affairs and how they come to be. It usually starts with a mutual attraction. For you, at the work place…that makes sense…you spend more quality time with him than with your husband…you don’t have the stressful tasks of child raising, bill paying, house cleaning etc…. with the coworker so it’s easy to be relaxed around him. For me it was a good friend of ours…my H’s cousin.

The miscarriage really seemed to change things for me. I needed more emotional support than ever. I was no longer tough and able to cope with things on my own.

Yup, we had a tornado. Lost everything. We were in the basement when it happened. I truly thought we were going to die. I held on for dear life to our 10 month old son who’s adoption had JUST been finalized that afternoon. The OM was there for us. Helped us with lots of things. Let us store what belongings we were able to salvage in his basement. Helped us to rebuild. He was there, he was fun to be around, he was like a knight in shining armor. My husband was grieving in his own way…and always up at the new place trying to build us a new house. I needed him to be with me…he felt he would do more good by getting us out of the shi+hole we were living in.

I withdrew as I grieved….and the OM was a good friend. I started turning to him. He paid attention to me. He said nice things to me. He appreciated the things about me that my H seemed to take for granted. I was hurting, he made me feel better. My H made me feel worse. I started to be hurt and angry, then I started to question our entire marriage. Why we’d ever gotten together in the first place and how incompatible we really were.

I’m an only child who moved all over the countryside my entire life, raised by my alcoholic father…my mother died when I was 4.5. My husband grew up with both parents and 9 brothers and sisters, just across the road from where we live now. I’m communicative and outgoing, my H is quiet and somewhat shy. We’re opposites….in many ways.

The OM liked the same types of things I did. Computers, electronics. He liked to buy whatever he wanted whenever he wanted. I like that too. My H is more conservative. Do we really need that? How are we going to pay for that? Somewhere in there I decided that I’d made a big mistake marrying my H and after jumping fence several times…I moved out. For a year. That was an enlightening year.

So a couple of weeks ago, it became apparant that the coworker and I had a chemistry. We ended up having a long dicussion in private about what we would do about it. He is also married with children. He has an 8 month-old baby too. I long for the baby, and I long for him. We gave into our temptations and had an affair. It was so passionate. I felt so good, I don't remember feeling that good.

It was inevitable. It’s sad that the discussion even took place. I wish you’d come here first. Your life could get much better, much quicker had it not. But it did and you can’t change that. Yes, it felt good…probably better than you ever remember it being with your H. It isn’t better chemistry and it isn’t because he’s a better man. It’s because you felt TERRIBLE and he gave you the attention you so desperately longed for. There’s so much more to that…but this is getting to be a novel already. If you want to learn more, I’m hoping you’ll stick around and ask questions…or read the books. Start with Surviving an affair…it’ll outline your situation to the T.

But the next day, he tells me that he made love to his wife that same evening and that he will always chose her over anyone.

How noble of him. I have to wonder if he’s done this sort of thing before. I need you to understand something. If he’s the sort of man that has….you’re setting yourself up for a whole lot of hurt and confusion as he tries to string you along as long as possible so he can get all he can out of you. Talk about a blow to your confidence level.

If he isn’t…then you’re both setting yourself and your spouses up for a world of hurt. In our case the OM was a bachelor. He’d never really dated before. So he wasn’t some sort of parasite out there just trying to score. The roller coaster ride we all took did a number on all of us. He was tormented with what was the ‘right’ thing to. Emotions took him one place and logic another. If this MM of yours is a good man, you aren’t doing him any favors by helping him to ignore his conscience.

We continue to chat on-line and I still long for him. He seems to feel the same for me. I don't understand how he could do that to his wife since he says he loves her.

That’s how we kept in contact too, online chats at night. Of course he still feels the same for you…he’s still seeing you every day and getting your attention at night. How could he do that to his wife if he loves her? She’s probably focusing her attention on the new baby and the rest of their life together. She could be on this message board somewhere trying to figure out why her husband is distant and their marriage seems to be slipping away. She may think that nothing is wrong if he’s a really good actor. Whatever the situation is…you are contributing to the possible ruination of their marriage. That can’t possibly make you feel better?! You slipped…I highly suggest not doing it again. It will only haunt you further.

I know why I did it.

I think there is more to this than you may realize.

Now I'm just trying to figure out what to do about my marriage. I really don't want to make it work.

Really? Then why ARE you here? I hope you understand that the reason you don’t feel like making it work right now I because of your anger and hurt towards your husband, and your overall exhaustion and depression from all you’ve been through recently.

I don't expect the OM to leave his wife. So I'm trying to decide whether I can leave my husband and potentially be alone.

Yea, I wanted that too. When it came down to it and I was tired of fence jumping and trying to figure out what the right answer was…I just wanted to be alone. It’s not easy though. People tend to head out on their own, and then start running away again. My guess is you’d become the OW for some time. You’d decide that some attention was better than none and you’d string along until depression had you so messed up you decided to do something about it. Then you’d regret that you hadn’t dealt with everything sooner…and you would probably come to realize you could have salvaged everything.

I think the kids will be ok if we both live nearby, just not together.

Hubby and I lived nearby. We still got together on weekends for family time for a while. Our son was just 2.5 when I moved out, so I figured he wouldn’t be greatly affected. Well, he WAS affected. He would get angry and demand his dad. If I tried to discipline him he’d cry for daddy. I told myself it was normal, and that all kids do that…but it hurt like heck to hear it. All I had ever wanted was to be a happy family. I just thought I’d picked the wrong guy to do it with. I was wrong.

I know people stay together for their kids. But our kids are so young. I can't bear the thought of staying with my H and never feeling the passion I felt with the OM.

I know what you’re saying. I know it from experience. I said it myself. Understand this…you will NOT have that passion for more than a short time with ANYONE. Hubby and I have found it together, but it is sporadic. It’s not meant to be a feeling you get forever. There are reasons for that…logical reasons. Again, I won’t get too deeply in to it. But understand that you are considering ditching your marriage, your normal, basically happy family life…for something that will not exist for more than a short amount of time with anyone. That’s a very high price for something so short lived.

I'm not as tough as I was 4 months ago, I need more.

What you need is to find happiness again and you need a more fulfilling relationship. You can have that with your HUSBAND! Or…you can go through the pain and loneliness that divorce will bring…you can shuffle your kids back and forth between your place and daddy’s place…you can fight with your ex over visitation and discipline and every other thing…especially after he finds a new wife who maybe has kids of her own and ideas of her own about how children should be raised. Yup, you can sit there….alone…over the holidays as you split the you get with your kids with your ex and his new wife and family. Hey….sound scary? It could happen. That’s the scenario that I got in my head that helped to pull my head out of my butt. I didn’t want to share my kid with ANYONE but his dad.

And after a year of “alone” I had come to understand ME better…come to understand why I felt the passion with the OM and not my H…come to understand what I’D done wrong in our marriage, come to understand where both H and I had fallen in to a typical pattern and followed the typical path to divorce when we couldn’t or wouldn’t find a different way…the anger and pain had time to subside….and I started to regain respect for my H as I came to realize all the ways he really had contributed to my life.

I came to respect his conservativeness and came to realize that it’s one of the things I LOVED about him. You can’t have everything you want when you want it! That’s ridiculous! All the things I had scorned about my H I came to realize I actually admired.

All the things I idolized about the OM actually came to annoy and anger me. The biggest understanding I came to…was that in many ways what I found interesting about the OM was how much like me he was…and in time I came to realize how difficult it is to live with someone like that. Yes, I came to realize that it was my H who had had the real challenge in our marriage. Because he was relatively easy to get along with.

Now that I have experienced a man that could provide 'more', I don't want to settle for what I have. I want my H to have more too. I just can't give that to him.

Honey, you are having an affair…even if it isn’t still a physical one, it’s still VERY MUCH an emotional one. If the OM fell off the face of the planet (or moved to Alaska in a place with no internet access) and your H started paying attention to you the way OM was….you would feel differently. Please don’t assume there are absolutes to the way you are feeling right now. Things can, and will defiantly, change.

Is there any chance that we can part peacefully and live happily ever after?

No. Because eventually other people will be in the picture and that will complicate things. And because my guess is that he doesn’t have any idea of how close you are to walking out on what he sees as a good life. He will not buy in to your happily ever after theory voluntarily.

I don't want to feel guilty for having an affair. I just want to move forward.

I think you already feel guilty for having an affair. And leaving him won’t change that. That’s part of the package, I’m sorry to say. When you opened the door to the OM in an attempt to shed some of your pain, you signed up for guilt in the process. It’s in the small print…but it’s signed sealed and delivered. Forgiving yourself is also part of the process. It will take time. All of this will take time. Nothing you can do will change that. I fought against time, I fought my feelings and emotions…I fought the fight you’re fighting. I did a lot of running. I really hope I can help you. I know it’s a terrible spot to be in.

Hubby and I have been back together for 2 years this Thanksgiving. I’m thankful every time I open my eyes at night and I see him laying next to me. I wrote him this love letter for our 11th anniversary a few weeks ago. Tell me if this isn’t exactly what you’re looking for:

To my Dearest Husband, on our Anniversary,

I love you with all of my heart…and through the years I have come to find depths of love that I never even dreamed existed.

I love watching you sleep…it gives me comfort to know you are there beside me. I drift off to sleep smiling. I DO look at you adoringly, though you may not always notice.

I love spending time with you, and I love missing you and thinking about you when we are apart.

I love that you have become my best friend.

I want to thank you for all you have given me. The greatest gift of all has been giving me a second chance….and I’m so thankful you kept giving it, even when I didn’t see its true value and kept trying to send it back.

My only regret…is that I didn’t type this letter before I put these nails on!!! ;-D

I do love you so much and I hope I never give you cause to doubt that again. I intend to spend my life showing you how much I love you! XXXOOOQQQ

So for this anniversary, I give to you only these few things:

My love and devotion
A gallon of chocolate pudding
And my complete attention for the duration of our evening together.

Do with these things as you will (please??) ;-)

Love,

Your Adoring Wife of 11 years



I meant every word. He’s my best friend, my lover, my husband, my life partner, a wonderful father to our son, a darn good handyman, a pretty good housekeeper and more… And I almost divorced him because I didn’t even want to lay next to him anymore.

And sometimes I get angry with him, and sometimes he annoys me, sometimes I still think he should read my mind, and I still wish we’d go out more and he’d romance me a little more. But he tries….and he succeeds….and it’s so much better…and I expect so much less (which was 90% of our problem, my expectations). Our marriage is good…it could be GREAT if we prioritized more time for each other…and it will never be perfect. No marriage ever will be.

I hope you’ll come back and talk with us more.

hope4future,

Thanks for your post....your understanding from from a common perspective will be invaluable and something I could not offer. I hope she returns to read this.

My wife is where you are now, only she is living with the OM. We have been married for 16 years and it hasn't been a very good marriage. When my W told me about the affair, I was devestated, my world crashed. I'm still a big mess, but I did realize my marriage is worth trying to fix. I've read every book I could get my hands on and I've realized that marriages do take work and I hadn't been doing my share. I'm not saying that her affair is justified, but it did take this kick in the head for me to realize these things. I'm slowly trying to change and hopefully she will eventually see these changes. She is supposed to start individual counseling. I hope she can get something out of this. I know she doesn't think we have a future together, but after reading hope4future's post, I think my wife may someday find hope for our future. This message board has helped me alot and hope it will help you. I have 2 daughters, one 16 and one 13. Take if from me, they feel the effects of seperation. My 16 year old is very angry at both me and her mom. She doesn't understand why we can't get along and love one another. I know in my heart that I will work as hard as I can to be a good husband, but until my W is ready to work with me, there is not a whole lot I can do except make myself better. If you give your husband a chance, you may be surprised at what you find. I hope I will get that chance one day....

Confused and Lonely please read and re-read Hope4Future's post for if there is somebody that was where you are right now, it is she.

Bumping up...don't want you to fall off the page. You still with us?

I have read, and re-read the responses. I agree that I cannot continue with the affair. However, I do need the emotional outlet that the OM gave me. I also do not believe that I can re-kindle my feelings for my husband. I think it is too far gone. It's not how I want to live my life, but the only way that looks attractive to me - is out. My kids can give me the love that I need. I'm starting a new career soon. It will hopefully give the personal satisfaction that I need. Perhaps that will be enough.

Hope~

I was about to log off and head for bed when I came upon this thread.

I have read some darn good posts since coming to MB, but yours totally blew me out of the water.

You adressed all of C&L's issues so eloquently, I can tell you speak from much experience.

Besides the fact that my A resulted in a P, I was never seperated from my H, and I'm 10 yrs. your senior <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , your story matched mine as closely as any I've come across.

C&L, I know the point you are at right now...the bleakness of seeing no hope, and H4F clearly remembers that point too. Her post is one in which I hope you will come back to and be incredibly grateful for. I did that with many of the original posts in response to my first few. They were much more helpful to me after I was less lost and confused.

Again, hope4future, I realize your intention was to help C&L, but thought I'd let you know, you helped, inspired, and touched me deeply.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

Take good care,
~autumnday

<small>[ August 25, 2003, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

My kids can give me the love that I need.

This response scared me a little. Your kids are for YOU to take care of. You and your husband. Please don't make your kids fulfill your needs. They are children who don't deserve that responsibility. If you read Blah34 and other former wayward spouses (like hope4future!!) you will see that they were where you are. And they regret it. Ending the affair is a definite positive, but if you need emotional fulfillment, please see an IC to help you start to love yourself again, or turn to your husband and try to work on things, or turn to God in times of need because He can fulfill you, or if you don't like any of those options- just remember that YOU are an adult and YOU are making these life decisions that affect several people and try to creep through the fog and see reality a little bit of where you are headed.

Autumnday, thank you so much! It took me 2 hours to get everything out..I'm glad it helped someone! Yes, I definatly speak from experience...it was a long road for us. I only wish I'd found MB from day 1 before it all started snowballing. But, as we've established, the infatuation starts and the brain goes. So I probly wouldn't have listened anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

C&L,

I know you feel all is hopeless for your marriage right now and that being alone would be the best thing. But understand that that's a FEELING. It's withdrawl and it's depression. It's not a clear and rational thought.

I suggest seeing your doctor again about possibly getting on some antidepressants for a short time. You don't have to get hooked for life, TRUST ME. I didn't want anything to do with them, but after a year of depression I couldn't deny it any longer. I asked for the mildest they had and I was feeling better in a short time. I was only on them a few months...then spring hit and I was able to pull it out myself from there (started exercising and eating better, that helped too).

With everything you've been through, I hope you'll consider it. ESPECIALLY before making concrete plans to leave. That will add more turmoil to your life...wouldn't you like to feel better before leaving?

Does your husband have ANY IDEA of how depressed you are? Does he have any idea of your affair? Does he suspect at all that you're ready to walk out and leave him?

I have read, and re-read the responses. I agree that I cannot continue with the affair.

Does this mean that you are still talking with the OM? Does he know you are thinking of moving out? What are your plans to stop communicating with him, or do you have any? Really...what are your true plans, or are you just taking it one step at a time?

However, I do need the emotional outlet that the OM gave me.

Spoken like a true addict! As Starfish posted...our chemical makeup actually changes when we fall in love. Our brains, essentially, turn to mush. We get all sorts of endorphins and stuff that make us feel alive and good! But they are CHEMICAL! So go take some antidepressants and make a PLAN for your life to change in a positive way...and THAT'S how you'll replace that feeling. Not by being alone and focusing on your children.

I also do not believe that I can re-kindle my feelings for my husband. I think it is too far gone.

As I've said, there's no reason you should feel any differently than that. It's normal. It's also changeable. I know, right now you don't WANT to change it. FINE, that's not step one. But what IS step one? Just to run away and hide??? You think the new job and being alone will fix how you feel??? IT WON'T! Let's get together a REAL plan for you...one that will help you to feel better..and without taking everyone else along on a painful ride with you. Namely your children, but your husband as well.

It's not how I want to live my life, but the only way that looks attractive to me - is out.

If it's not how you want to live your life, then how is it attractive?? Paint me a picture of how your life would look if it were realistically the best you could hope for. Seriously, tell me what it is that you want to have out of your life.

My kids can give me the love that I need.

BIG RED FLAG! No, your kids are going to need even more FROM you if you split their home. And what do you have to give right now?? You're emotionally spent! I have a child whom I love and adore...he didn't come CLOSE to filling the void that companionship from an adult brings. Children demand time and attention, and often take it all for granted. Yes, they can also be loving and appreciative, but they can't 'read' a situation and know when to be which. For the most part, the require things from us...it's not their job to give back.

I'm starting a new career soon. It will hopefully give the personal satisfaction that I need.

Is it what you want from a career? I mean really, is it something you've wanted to do for some time...or is it just a different job? Don't count on it being something it may not be. That's counting your chickens before they've hatched. What if you hate it too? Then what? You hang around until the next thing comes along? Seriously, do you have an alternative plan if this one falls through???

Perhaps that will be enough.

I doubt it. Because I tried escaping my pain via job and child and whatever else. Fact is...it takes learning and introspection. You are the only one who can heal you. With help from others...but it still comes from you. I've healed in ways I never knew I could...in places I didn't even know hurt. You can fix your life and fix you...and only then can you really know if your marriage is really as bad as you think it is...and if your husband is really the cause of your unhappiness. It's HIGHLY unlikely he is.

Please keep posting.

Hope4Future has given you the most excellent advice you can get, and you would be wise to reread her posts many times over.

Have you told your H about your A? If you haven't then I suggest that you should do so not only because he deserves to know the truth, and therefore he can decide if he wants to remain married to you, BUT also because it may wake him up as to his part (you have yours as well) in the bad state of the marriage. By telling him the truth, you give him the opportunity for self reflection and possibly a desire on his part to change his ways. You may feel that it's too late for the marriage if he were to change to the man you wanted him to be a long time ago BUT it could help him to attract another woman who may become his W.

I really hope you are actually comprehending the above posts.

You CANNOT look to a career, OM, H, or kids to make you happy. You are in a fog as well.

If everything was actually okay until miscarriage, why can it not be again?

Get into counseling before making a decision.

I have lost a child and miscarried. It took years to get over losing a child and about 2 years to get over the miscarriage. I could not have done it without help the 2nd time. I would go see a counselor and your doctor and see if you need to go on medication.

Please, take your time and work on YOU first. You will find that once you know how to make yourself happy w/out looking for it through others, everything else will follow.

Inner peace is the key!

I hope you're still reading and thinking.

One thing that also occurred to me, that I forgot to ask about...your age. If you're somewhere between 28 and 32 you are probably going through your thirty year transition. I learned about this in therapy...it hit dead on for me about how I was feeling. Counselor recommended a book. I'll quote part of the chapter...you can see if it sounds like something that might be playing a factor.

From A Woman’s Book of Life:

In early and middle adulthood the process of adolescing, or growing up, coexists with the process of senescing, or growing down, periods when our life structures go in to decline. The life structure is defined as a boundary between ourselves and the external world that functions as framework for occupational and family relationships. It is composed of our hopes and dreams, values and talents. How will we fit into the world? What is important to us? What will make us happy?

The period that spans the late teens to mid forties is one of building the life structure for our adulthood. The early thirties are what he calls a "structure-changing or transitional period that terminates the existing life structure and creates the possibility for a new one". .....

The major task involved in the age thirty transition, which Levinson found to span the years between 28 and 32, is the exploration of new possibilities and the finishing up of old business that may be getting in the way of a woman's continued growth.

Inherent in reevaluating what Levinson calls our "necessarily flawed" early life structures, are nagging questions about how to combine work and family, whether to combine work and family, and whether early marriage partnerships are working out. These questions may be further confounded by the stress of infertility. Many women in their 30's want to be mothers, but either can't conceive or have trouble carrying the pregnancy to term. Will they persevere in trying to conceive or alter their life plan? Central to a woman's age thirty transition is the question "what do I really want?"

bumping

Hope4future

Sorry to butt in with a question, it is relevant.

Do you think that guilt played a large part in your not wanting to be intimate with your husband. If so then was coming to terms with this a major factor in your own personal recovery.

You’ve given me some hope (I’m BS). Good luck to you.

C&L,

I hope you don't feel stampeded by all of this, but I did want to point out one thing missed by other posts: it's typical of WSs to rewrite their marital history in the light of the current affair. My H told me he was "never" sure of our marriage, that he was "never" really in love, etc. All of these revelations were a new story constructed in the midst of an ongoing affair. He'd expressed very different feelings before. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if, when the A crashes, he has a different version of events.

Undoubtedly you did have some of these thoughts about your marriage throughout -- we have many conflicting thoughts and feelings about all major events of our lives. When your A is truly over, and withdrawal from the A is finished some months after that, you will be able to evaluate more objectively the viability of your marriage, and what it was like in the past. You may be surprised how different your feelings are...