I've been reading these forums since D day, 3/16/03. I read all the books: SAA, HNHN, LBs. I've been on plan A since 4/1/03. I've tried with all my heart and soul to show my wife that we're worth fighting for.
She had the affair with someone at work when I went on a trip for nine days to take care of some family business. When I left for the trip we were so in love and with so much hope for the future. I trusted her 100%.
She is still involved with OM, she moved out on 4/1/03, WW and I talk and are still in love. In our conversations she's told me she is with OM because she fills very fulfilled with him, she loves his attention and their intimate relation eventhough he is immature and they fight a lot.
Until today I thought we had a chance to save our marriage. Last night we went out and had one of those talks where we got so emotional and cried and said how much we love each other. At the end of our conversation she said we should have sex to see how she feels, I had second thoughts but also wanted to be with her so badly. We went ahead and did it, it felt so good for me but I know she didn't feel the same way. This morning we went out for breakfast and she told me she felt empty after we had sex the night before. She said that if we got back together she would probably cheat again because she couldn't live with that emptiness forever.
I then asked her if she ever felt connected in our sexual relationship and she said only once, we've been a couple for almost six years.
After reading these forums I realized my situation is different from others because we never had the intimacy she needs to feel complete. I've read that if you lose it somewhere down the road you can still reignite the passion but how can we do this if we never had it. In every other way she says I'm perfect for her, I know that she is perfect for me and will love her for the rest of my days. I tried plan A as best as I could, in our separation I stopped LB'ing and tried to fill her EN's as best as I could. The thing is that I feel I didn't have a chance from the get go because so much damage had been done, she's unable to forgive me for mistakes I've made and because of our empty sexual relationship.
I'm in IC, until last week things were looking up, she told me that I was doing all the right things and that she felt she was with the wrong person. She told me she was going to end with him because apart from SF she has nothing in common with him, he is 24 and my wife is 32. Now things have turned for the worse.
Could this be the fog, right now if feels that our problems are bigger that we're. I can't picture my life w/o her. I feel so sad, it's so hard to keep going even though I've managed to keep things going. When I asked her what she needs from me to make her happy she has a real hard time coming with answers.
Sorry for the long post, I'm desperate, the roller coaster is killing me.
PS My signature is outdated, her affair is now in the open between her and I, her family doesn't know, mine does.

It seems that one of your WW's most important EN's is SF(sexual fulfillment) and I can understand why you wanted to fulfill that EN, BUT unlike fulfilling other EN's, SEX CAN KILL if safeguards are not taken like a complete physical examination to check for STD's. The best thing for you to do is to abstain from any further sexual contact with your WW until she ends her A with the OM forever and subjects herself to a complete medical check up.

This may be the time for you to consider going to Plan B.

Plan B, Plan B, Plan B! I am with Coffeeman.

There is all sorts of help out there (even some stuff about meeting SF needs on this site) that can help a couple ignite their sex life. I just purchased several books by Schnarch (go to barbes and noble or Amazon.com and look up the author's last name. MC will help also.

But while she is in the affair, nothing will help! So, you have done a 5-6 month good Plan A. Time to go to Plan B. Dr. Harley even says that when the WS starts wantingto decide between the OP and the BS, it is time to go to Plan B. Read everything you can on this process. Get help here writing your Plan B Letter (PBL). Send it...then go dark.

Of course, in your PBL you will elude to the SF needs, on how you want and know that you can have a fulfilling sexual life with her. that yo uare willing to seek help with her and work with her on this.

But the OM has to go first. So, read up on Plan B Letters, write yours, post it here so everyone can vet it...then go dark.

Also, have you thought about counseling with Steve Harley or Jennifer Chalmers on here? They are a little expensive, but WELL worth it. They count on getting the two of you in love first, then fixing the problems.

Your wife has admitted that the only thing this guy does is SF for her. Well, that means that EVERYTHING else is done by YOU! And she loves that. Well, you know the SF area can be fixed and be better. But not until OM is gone.

So, it is time to take all of the needs that you are meeting for her and dump them squarely in the OM's lap. "Here you go buddy...see if you can meet all of these." Guess what? He cant, and your wife has admitted as much.

Go Plan B now. Let her get her needs met elsewhere, which she will fail to do. Work on you. Get smarter about SF and how to overcome the problems the two of you have. Counsel with the Harleys if you can, and suggest in the PBL that your wife should also.

Time to light the fire. Go to Now What's thread and read about his adventures in Plan B. It will help guide you thru the pitfalls, as well as the successes.

In His arms.

Thanks for the replies, I just came back from having lunch with her. Things aren't looking good today. My wife doesn't feel we can find the sexual connection she needs and it's hopeless, it seems like we don't know how to break it off, we talk about it, we cry, we kiss, and then back to limbo. I forgot to mention that she broke up with him last Sunday, she also broke up w/ me afterwards. She and I couldn't last a whole day w/o seeing each other and yesterday we saw each other again. She tells me she doesn't know who to choose, she doesn't want to hurt me or him, this sounds like the fog talking to me. The thing is that I'm disheartened because of what she told me today, she told me she never felt that sexual connection with me but once. How can I fix it. When we did our ENs SF was number three for me and number four for her, we actually had the same ENs but in slightly different order. I know we are great at taking care of the other four ENs.
My wife can't forgive me going to a go go bar when we were dating when she left town for a business trip. She is also hurt when I use porn to masturbate, she also tells me I don't make her feel atractive and that she needs to feel she is it for me, I've tried to show her but she says she doesn't believe me. In general she has felt abandoned for a while. I know we're best friends and have and incredible connection in so many levels. It's so hard to believe that we can lose our marriage because of sex.
I wish I could afford counseling with the Harleys, but I quit my job and went back to work in a restaurant so I can finish school, so much has changed in my life I barely know which side is up anymore.
I promised I would do plan B on 10/1/03, I tried it before but we always go back to each other, we don't even make it one day w/o talking or seeing each other, also things are complicated because I told her she should go back to OM since he can fulfill a need that I don't know how to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"My wife can't forgive me going to a go go bar when we were dating when she left town for a business trip. She is also hurt when I use porn to masturbate, she also tells me I don't make her feel atractive and that she needs to feel she is it for me, I've tried to show her but she says she doesn't believe me."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Those are nothing but excuses to justify her betrayal, and they pale in comparison with what she has done.

Your WW is not the only one that is in a fog for you also are in one of your own if you continue on this road which only benefits her. If you are really serious about saving your marriage then you need to go to Plan B ASAP otherwise your love for her will eventually die and it would be sad if it happened when she finally realizes that she wants to rebuild the marriage but you are deadset on divorce.

Thanks TMCM,
I've read many of your replies to other posts and respect your advise greatly. You stroke a cord about me being in a fog of my own. I remember when my wife and I would talk about what happened if one of us cheated. I told her I'd leave her on the spot or I'd do something I may regret. Look at me know, my self confidence is almost non existent. Sometimes I feel like if I stick around long enough she'll open up to me again. I know this doesn't make sense specially after reading about plan A and plan B.
I've seen my wife do things we thought only crazy people would do. The biggest reason I haven't gone to plan B is because I don't want her to feel abandoned by me ever again.
Today I took off from my evening shift at the restaurant. I called her on my way home and left her a message to let her know I was going to be at my place. I did some work on my car and when I finally came to my apartment I decided to have a cigarette outside, I was doing my usual thinking when I saw her walking to her apartment(we live in the same apt. complex, I know it's crazy). I was so happy, she walked to me and we talked, she said she went for a walk and did some more thinking. I said that's great, I said: "we're finally facing our situation", I also had the balls to tell her: "you're going to miss me when I'm gone". She said to me: "I miss you already". She also told me that what she was thinking is not what I was thinking, meaning that I'm starting to make peace with the fact that we may break up. She's still thinking we can overcome this. I really hope so.
We cried so much today, I'm sick of feeling miserable one second and ecstatic the next.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"The biggest reason I haven't gone to plan B is because I don't want her to feel abandoned by me ever again."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Juan let me remind you that it is she that has abandoned you, not the other way around. I'm afraid that you have been buying too much into her crapy excuses that she has got you feeling and beleiving that you are guilty for her affair.

While it's true that Plan B is risky, especially when there are no kids involved, it is needed to preserve the remaining love you have for her for an eventual marital reconciliation. Don't kid yourself that marital recovery is a walk in the park because it is often much, much more difficult than dealing with an ongoing affair (go read Mortarman's and StillTryingToSaveIt's threads to see what I mean). You will need all the love you have for her in order to make it thru the hardest part of marital recovery, the beginning. If you have little or no love left for her your marital recovery will be doomed from the start and you will head straight for divorce without a second thought. Besides how long do you think she will stand to depend on the OM for all of her EN's if her relationship with him is starting to show signs of structural stress?

Plan A and Plan B go against every instinctual bone in a BS's body but they have proven to either set the groundwork for rebuilding the marriage or making the transition to divorce a lot less traumatic experience overall.

Nobody can guarantee that by following the most perfect of Plan A/Plan B that your marriage is going to be saved and rebuilt, but you will have the knowledge and peace of mind that you are doing your best to do so, and if the marriage cannot be saved you can move on with no regrets or second thoughts to tie you to the past.

Yes indeed, she did abandon us, she had the affair before we could talk about things and figured out what was missing in our relationship. She told she felt abandoned before and "justified" about the affair.
Five months ago she wasn't sure if she loved me anymore, today I know she does. I did plan A to change myself and learn from this experience. I've shown her I'm the man I know I can be, the hard part is that she doesn't want to believe in my changes. I also have been doing plan A to show her I'm not bailing out on her and I'll walk this path we have in front of us to wherever it takes us. Plan A has helped me feel I'll be prepared to be with or w/o her. I know recovery won't be easy, I know being alone won't be easy. My choice would be to have a chance to rebuild our marriage and be the couple we are meant to be.
I will complete the six months of plan A before I go to plan B, in a way we do have a family: two dogs and two cats, they're our babies since we don't want to have kids. She took one of the dogs and I kept the other pets.
Once I go into plan B I know the risk is high she may not come back. I want to keep depositing love units before 10/1 so she has good memories of me.
Whatever happens I know I will be better prepared to what lies ahead, I love her so much I know I can wait one more month.
Funny thing happened a couple of months ago, she asked me how long it would take for us to recover from this, I told her in an average two years. Her eyes opened so wide, one of the problems is that she believes love is something you feel or you don't. I know that after the first attraction love is work and commitment, if the two of us put as much effort into the marriage as we do working and going to school I'm certain we wouldn't be here now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Five months ago she wasn't sure if she loved me anymore, today I know she does."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I beleive that her actions prove otherwise. What she has shown you is that she wants both you and the OM in her life without comitting to one or the other. The words 'I still love you' are mere words if they are not accompanied with deeds to back them up.

Plan A is also risky because your love bank may close before you get a chance to implement Plan B for every day that you see her going in and out of the OM's apartment is one more day that your love for her dies, and the more susceptible you are to falling into an affair of your own for you are indeed the abandoned one vulnerable to the attention and affection of another woman.

<small>[ August 27, 2003, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>