I also have a question about emotional detachment.

If/when the BS manages to pull away for a while just for their own protection from the pain, and instead of being concerned the WS only becomes angry and indignant at how badly THEY are being treated -- what do you make of that?

It's WORKING!!!

The WS begins to fear they are losing the BS. Not what they want, and they become like a toddler throwing a fit to get what they want...
They want what they want, when they want it, and resent someone else spoiling their fun..."how dare the BS not give them what they want..."

There will probably come a time when the WS realizes they have created this situation, and they can change it (they stop blaming the BS for their A). If the BS has kept their distance and helped the WS feel the consequences of throwing their love away ("You mean I could REALLY lose them?") then it is the WS making hte decision to come back...a much firmer behavior change than the WS feeling they have to change because someone is asking them to...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by psycho_b:
<strong>I also have a question about emotional detachment.

If/when the BS manages to pull away for a while just for their own protection from the pain, and instead of being concerned the WS only becomes angry and indignant at how badly THEY are being treated -- what do you make of that?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Their logical thought processes are COMPLETELY lost in the FOG. WS's have been reduced to self-centered babies thinking of only themselves.

Example: What my WW said to me when I revealed her affair:

"If our teenaged D gets pregnant by her boyfriend IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT BECAUSE YOU MADE HER MOTHER LOOK LIKE AN ADULTERESS"!!!!

Not because WW IS an adulteress and giving a poor example of a wife and mother! Besides that, D has already seen the OM and already knew she was seeing him every night! WW spouse told D he was just a friend! How logical is that???

I can completely relate with this question.

It took me approximately 6 months to detach myself emotionally and quit worrying about what my then WH was doing....practically living with the OW. (he was "living" with my sister...which is where all his stuff was, but he stayed with the OW at night. NOTE: The OW was NOT my sister.)

Now....this does not really mean it's working when the WS gets this attitude. It's merely another part of the "fog".

In my case I was always my H's safety net......the person he could go back to when it wasn't working with him and the OW....or the mother of his children that he needed to be with to please others and his parents. That doesn't work for long. I kept taking him back....and he kept leaving.

Finally....I had enough and decided that I was moving on. I wasn't testing him, I wasn't playing any games. I was really ready to move on with my life whether it involved him or not.

He never got the "attitude" when I did this, but it did change his perspective of things. He'd urged me for 6 months to find someone for myself and when I got ready to do just that was about the time him and the OW were calling it quits. On their own without my involvement at all.

This can go 2 different ways. It can change the WS's perspective of things and make them think twice about an A or leaving or even divorce......OR.....it could confirm to them that you are ready to move on and leave them to their own devices to live as they choose.

It's just like everything else that is involved in these situations.......it either works FOR you or AGAINST you.....just depends on the people and the situation.

So, How long does this process take?

I'm sure each and every situation is different but I've just come across this "detachment" and am wondering about it as a "phase".

I mean, I've fallen into this. I feel detached. I'm assuming and mentally prepping that we're not going to make it and am trying to come to grips.

My f(?)wh was annoyed with me that I wasn't being especially talkative last night when he arrived home late from work. I wasn't mad. Honestly, I didn't care. He later seemed agitated with me. It has been about a week that I've been feeling this emotional detachment. It feels better than being an emotional wreck.

Any insight into this would be great. It's a new topic I discovered just as it began occuring in my own life on its own.

Thanks

I get the feeling that emotional detachment is being equated with acting cold and aloof and that is simply not the case. You can be emotionally detached while on the outside you appear to be concerned OR you can appear to be cold and aloof while inside your are a seething emotional volcano.

Emotional detachment IS NOT a BS manipulative tool to get the WS to do what you want her to do. It IS a coping tool for the BS to help him/her deal constructively with the ordeal of infidelity. If the WS reacts negatively to the BS's peaceful behavior induced by the emotional detachment, then the WS will have to learn to accept it or it is going to eventually push the BS towards chosing divorce as the best choice in his/her life.

<small>[ August 29, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

I don't think it is a "tool" in order to get a response from a WS either. I think it is just what occurs to the BS (in some cases) when you feel you've done all you can and aren't making progress of any kind with you WS. I'm burnt out, personally.

What I am feeling is just an internal/external separation from wanting/needing my WH to love me. I've been wanting him to love me so badly since I allowed him to come home. He's totally blocked. He's admitted this. It is not my imagination.

So what do I do? Torture myself? I think it is a survival instinct. I'm either going to cave in or get stronger. I'm not trying to shake him up to get a response. This is just how I am feeling. I have gone through a lot of feelings.

I want him to love me, but am getting used to the idea that, maybe he just doesn't love me anymore. So, do I cry in my soup for the rest of my life? NO. I've spent the last 1 1/2 years of my life immersed in his crap. If he doesn't value/love me at this point, OK. Maybe letting him go and letting go of the M (gulp) will also have some relief associated with it.

Of course it is going to hurt, but why drag it out waiting for the lightning bolt to strike his head? Let's not forget, it was HIS choice to have an A and risk the M. HE hasn't spent the last 8 mos making me feel safe, loved and valued. He has given me ambiguity. So, who is the fool here?? Sounds like me.

Maybe detachment is a survival instinct when your body/mind/soul says "enough". I'm not expecting him to change. He's had opportunity and hasn't changed. Maybe this is where I just look at the cold hard facts. Maybe my M is going to end up a statistic of D. It isn't what I would have ever thought, but it is possible. Life will go on - I've got to be strong for my kids. And who knows, maybe out there somewhere is a shred of happiness for me. (I'm an eternal optimist - although practical).

So to me, detachment is an understanding. Understanding that I CAN'T change my H. That if his heart isn't screaming to him that he needs to fight for me/us, I can't put that in him and I shouldn't have to. He cheated on me and after a week I knew from my guts that I still did love him and was willing to try to work on our M and give us another chance.

So, my detachment is from hurt, rejection, frustration , as well as a mass of other emotions. FOr me, it's not a tool for him to notice me. It is just where I am at right now, at this moment . I don't know where I'll be later, or tomorrow.

I think it is protection when you sense you've had enough and maybe a big choice needs to be made soon, for your own well being.

I really always believed we had a special love. I even believed that my H loved me despite what he did. That he made bad choices and got caught up in a manipulative situation. About a week ago, I sat there telling him I knew he still loved me. I felt that in my guts. I believed we'd be old and gray together and on our rocking chairs with a whole bunch of grandkids and pets surrounding us. But, I've come to a new reality that maybe I'm wrong about him, us and all of it.

That is my explanation of emotional detachment. When everything you believe turns out to be false, you just don't know which end is up and all you know is you don't know anything. I'm stepping back because if I allowed it to it would swallow me whole and I can't allow that to happen. This isn't anger I'm feeling (believe me I felt ANGER), it is acceptance.

That being said, how is my H feeling about all this??? I DON"T KNOW. That's how little he communicates. I've been put in a position where he won't let me in. We're doing the MC, but I'm considering stopping. We (he) hit a wall and it is brutal for me to have to sit there and listen to his ambiguity week after week.

Another long, long spewing of my innermost thoughts. Thanks for reading,and feel free to comment.

I don't think it is a "tool" in order to get a response from a WS either. I think it is just what occurs to the BS (in some cases) when you feel you've done all you can and aren't making progress of any kind with you WS. I'm burnt out, personally.

What I am feeling is just an internal/external separation from wanting/needing my WH to love me. I've been wanting him to love me so badly since I allowed him to come home. He's totally blocked. He's admitted this. It is not my imagination.

So what do I do? Torture myself? I think it is a survival instinct. I'm either going to cave in or get stronger. I'm not trying to shake him up to get a response. This is just how I am feeling. I have gone through a lot of feelings.

I want him to love me, but am getting used to the idea that, maybe he just doesn't love me anymore. So, do I cry in my soup for the rest of my life? NO. I've spent the last 1 1/2 years of my life immersed in his crap. If he doesn't value/love me at this point, OK. Maybe letting him go and letting go of the M (gulp) will also have some relief associated with it.

Of course it is going to hurt, but why drag it out waiting for the lightning bolt to strike his head? Let's not forget, it was HIS choice to have an A and risk the M. HE hasn't spent the last 8 mos making me feel safe, loved and valued. He has given me ambiguity. So, who is the fool here?? Sounds like me.

Maybe detachment is a survival instinct when your body/mind/soul says "enough". I'm not expecting him to change. He's had opportunity and hasn't changed. Maybe this is where I just look at the cold hard facts. Maybe my M is going to end up a statistic of D. It isn't what I would have ever thought, but it is possible. Life will go on - I've got to be strong for my kids. And who knows, maybe out there somewhere is a shred of happiness for me. (I'm an eternal optimist - although practical).

So to me, detachment is an understanding. Understanding that I CAN'T change my H. That if his heart isn't screaming to him that he needs to fight for me/us, I can't put that in him and I shouldn't have to. He cheated on me and after a week I knew from my guts that I still did love him and was willing to try to work on our M and give us another chance.

So, my detachment is from hurt, rejection, frustration , as well as a mass of other emotions. FOr me, it's not a tool for him to notice me. It is just where I am at right now, at this moment . I don't know where I'll be later, or tomorrow.

I think it is protection when you sense you've had enough and maybe a big choice needs to be made soon, for your own well being.

I really always believed we had a special love. I even believed that my H loved me despite what he did. That he made bad choices and got caught up in a manipulative situation. About a week ago, I sat there telling him I knew he still loved me. I felt that in my guts. I believed we'd be old and gray together and on our rocking chairs with a whole bunch of grandkids and pets surrounding us. But, I've come to a new reality that maybe I'm wrong about him, us and all of it.

That is my explanation of emotional detachment. When everything you believe turns out to be false, you just don't know which end is up and all you know is you don't know anything. I'm stepping back because if I allowed it to it would swallow me whole and I can't allow that to happen. This isn't anger I'm feeling (believe me I felt ANGER), it is acceptance.

That being said, how is my H feeling about all this??? I DON"T KNOW. That's how little he communicates. I've been put in a position where he won't let me in. We're doing the MC, but I'm considering stopping. We (he) hit a wall and it is brutal for me to have to sit there and listen to his ambiguity week after week.

Another long, long spewing of my innermost thoughts. Thanks for reading,and feel free to comment.

<<<So, my detachment is from hurt, rejection, frustration , as well as a mass of other emotions. FOr me, it's not a tool for him to notice me. It is just where I am at right now, at this moment.>>>

That's where I am, too. I have to keep telling myself to just back off because otherwise I'm absolutely losing it from sheer pain and the most extreme frustration imaginable.

Admitted to me last night that he really is okay with the idea of his company's "No Spouses Allowed At Social Occasions" policy. Has no desire to challenge or change it, even though he is a senior manager and certainly could if he wanted to.

Thinks this policy is appropriate and normal. Doesn't see what the problem is. If he just can't get out of some work-related social event, he WILL go without me and has no problem with this. Says he will give me a "99%" commitment on not going to things that would upset me, but reserves the right to go things when "necessary."

This from a man who spent many years lying to me about exactly these types of events because he was really hooking up with his favorite female co-workers while there, sometimes driving them in our car and often going out alone with them. He lied, he says, because this was all "normal work behavior" and he "didn't want to have to fight with me."

This from a man who could find no possible way to tell me in advance about the off-site birthday party his co-workers threw for him at a very nice restaurant just last week. He did admit last night that he thought it was fine that I was not there. He had no problem with that at all. It was a work event, and so why would it occur to him to invite me? I and our son had taken him out for his birthday over the weekend, so now it was his co-workers's turn to take him out.

He truly believes he can still go out and socialize with these people whenever he thinks he should, even with his history. He just doesn't want to understand why that might be a problem for *me.* He truly believes it is normal and appropriate to separate your spouse from work-related social activities, and is more than happy to go out with those people and have a fine time with them while I am somewhere else.

He doesn't need me or want me there at all. I had hoped he would, but he just doesn't. His co-workers are all he needs and he's much happier not having me there when he's with them.

Well, I had to try, didn't I?

Yes, I did thank him for his honesty. And I meant it. Honesty was my #1 EN and his championship-level bullsh*t was literally driving me insane. At least he did own up to how he really feels. At least I can be certain of what I am dealing with.

I know. I know. Please, just let me vent. I don't have anyone else to talk to about this.

Psycho B - VENT away. I've done it so much myself. I can understand your frustration.

Sounds like all your looking for is to be included in his life. You want one life with him where everything is shared. You might not even want to go to all these events, but being asked /included is sometimes all we're looking for.

I don't really have any advice to give. I just wanted to say I understand.

***Sounds like all your looking for is to be included in his life. You want one life with him where everything is shared.***

Exactly. ONE life -- not one at home where I'm included, and one at work where I'm not. That situation has just literally driven me insane.

***You might not even want to go to all these events, but being asked /included is sometimes all we're looking for.***

It sure is.

***I don't really have any advice to give. I just wanted to say I understand.***

Thank you. Sometimes, just being understood is the best we can hope for.

<small>[ August 30, 2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: psycho_b ]</small>

Sometimes a BS is in a fog of his/her own and the only way to come out of said fog is to accept and make peace with the possibility that the marriage may not survive. When this happens, then the BS can become emotionally detached, and thus make sound decisions that are based on the reality of the situation instead of on wishful thinking.

TooMuchCoffeeMan, can you explain what types of decisions you're referring to? Are you talking about the BS coming to terms with ending the marriage? Or, are you talking about the BS going on with their life, not trying to include the WS so much, but rather just moving forward?

Just curious. Thanks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weezy8550:
TooMuchCoffeeMan, can you explain what types of decisions you're referring to? Are you talking about the BS coming to terms with ending the marriage? Or, are you talking about the BS going on with their life, not trying to include the WS so much, but rather just moving forward?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would say BOTH because each BS is different and may have different views, based on his/her religious beleifs, as to what is acceptable to tolerate in their marriage.

Weezy, psycho, others:
How long did it take you to reach this point of emotional detachment? D-day for me was 2/16/03, WW moved out shorty after. Did a solid PA/PB and though I have now been in PB with absolutely NC for two weeks it seems that WW is constantly on my mind. This in a situation where WW is still seeing OM and I am almost certain that she is never coming home. Though I feel that I am going to have to Dv, even having NC does not seem to help me break the obsession (only word that fits). It would be such a relief to get through the day not wondering where she is, what she is doing, etc.

Hey 23 down,
my fwh and I are still living together, dday was almost 8 mos ago.

We are supposedly working on our M, he claims NC, but I'm not really feeling enough recovery on his part to believe him. He still seems in the fog, another reason I don't buy the NC bit.

I just got to this point recently. Don't get me wrong, all I think about all day is my H and my M. I've just come to a realization that nothing I do is going to "snap" him out of it. I've made to decision to start thinking about this M not working because I am not getting what I need.

I think it is taking the focus off of the S and putting in on yourself. I can only control what I do. I can let him treat me like this, (like I'm his sister basically) or I can decide to cut my losses. This brings about a certain calmness because you know you are in control of something and not just a victim of circumstances.

Now, when, and how will I end it??? I don't know yet. Will I definitely end it???? I don't know yet. But, the thought keeps coming to me that that's my only solution because my F(?)wh is so absent that I'd be better off alone anyway.

Just my take on it. Good luck to you. Be strong. Take care of you.

How long did it take you to reach this point of emotional detachment?

Oh what a question. I think everyone is different so I don't want to depress you or anything. But I have been very strong, in my opinion, and been able to emotionally detach at different stages. D-day was 8/20/02 and I detached finally in December when I just had enough. Then he came back so I got emotionally attached again in Feb. when I found out about OC. Then I detached again in April, then in May I felt emotionally attached again, talked to him more and found out about his pornography addiction in June, then had to struggle with that. Now I have been ok until August approaches and it is very very strange. I don't want to talk to him- but I still can't get it all out of my head. I still get emotional and I still have flashbacks of the hellish days I went through this time last year. I am feeling sick again or tired or down and it just sucks because another person should not do this to you. Especially someone who promised to love you. But unfortunately I have learned- and I hope it doesn't sound bitter- because I dont' mean for it to- but sometimes people simply leave. And there is nothing we can do to make them stay. So you have to just make the decision that YOU are worth more. YOU need a life and you need to stop wasting time trying to change what can't be changed, and change only what is in your control.
I am a Christian so I have to constantly remind myself "God grant me the serenity to accept what I can't change, change the things I can and please oh please give me the wisdom to know the difference." And PLEASE let me stop going nuts over wondering what someone is doing when where and how- because if someone you love is in a fog- then nothing they do is rational. So you have to keep yourself out of that fog and move forward- I know that I didn't want to be divorced- fought it tooth and nail- and I still cringe when people ask me if I am married or single- what do you say? Single? Divorced? I feel like the big D is on my forehead or something. And there will always be that person who does not understand, and who judges you for it. And I also have heard people say that because the church did not intervene and declare your spouse spiritually dead, that I am not free to remarry or free to have divorced. The problem was, my ex-h was not a member of the church we started going to, and I was, but no one wanted to intervene with church discipline. So am I wrong? Maybe. But I don't think so. You just have to shut out the world sometimes and be sure in yourself and in your heart that you have done all you can..and for heavens sake, be nice to yourself!!
Best wishes to you.

<small>[ August 30, 2003, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

I started moving into emotional detachment on 5/27/03, more than a year after D-Day, when WH said, "I'm glad I gave up on the M." It started to occur to me: Why am I the one running to therapy and reading books on infidelity while he is sitting back waiting for me to forgive him and move on?

TooMuchCoffeeMan's 180 degree list was helpful for me. The only way for the M to work is for me to face that it may not and prepare myself emotionally and practically. Then I am no longer trapped by my own religious conviction into a M that isn't a M. A M is one of mutual care.

What happened with us is WH suggested a joint counseling session and now we have agreed to MC beginning 9/4/03.

<small>[ August 30, 2003, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Bump for lost-without-her and Monty.