....from you regarding Plan B. I need help. I have tried somewhat successfully at Plan B. My last Plan B was a false one, and now I am into a third attempt. I so want to be successful; however, I have a problems to sort out. I have no problem with the NC thing. H continually called me last night and left voice mails. I didn't respond. They were pleading, etc., etc., but I was not interested and quite ticked off. This morning, I have received three very nasty e-mails. I guess because I have not given in. I love my husband, however, and this is so hard to admit, I do not like him. I do not hate him, I feel sorry for him. I do not loathe him, I pity him.

I'm wondering if I should continue Plan B or just give up. Honestly, I think I should give up because after supposedly being "tossed" from OW's house, he rather stay in his office and live out of the back of his car, rather than move back in with me and the children. I do not think it is a problem with his children, but rather with me. I think he has completely fallen "out of love" with me. I think that by doing a Plan B, I'm making it worse, because he doesn't want to come back. Now, the most difficult part is that I'm really questioning if I truly want to work out my marriage. He is now looking to share an apartment with someone, rather than try to work on us. Yes, he sends me e-mails that he will do anything, but in reality, when it comes down to it...he doesn't...they are empty words. I'm beginning not to care, my head is turning by other men and compliments and I'm scared to death.

I need advice on how to proceed...Star said that you would be the best person to get advice on a Plan B...

Thanks.

Hey Karena....didnt see your post until just now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">....from you regarding Plan B. I need help. I have tried somewhat successfully at Plan B. My last Plan B was a false one, and now I am into a third attempt.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also took three attempts before I got it right!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I so want to be successful; however, I have a problems to sort out. I have no problem with the NC thing. H continually called me last night and left voice mails. I didn't respond. They were pleading, etc., etc., but I was not interested and quite ticked off.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not a bad feeling to have in Plan B!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This morning, I have received three very nasty e-mails. I guess because I have not given in.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly! And that causes him pain!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love my husband, however, and this is so hard to admit, I do not like him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you shouldn't! He is not a very nice or a very good person right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not hate him, I feel sorry for him. I do not loathe him, I pity him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All exactly right!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm wondering if I should continue Plan B or just give up.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How long have you been in Plan B? Do you WANT to give up? What about what you said above, with him pleading (sounds like he might be waking up)? Read my thread during my third Plan B Mortarman's Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honestly, I think I should give up because after supposedly being "tossed" from OW's house, he rather stay in his office and live out of the back of his car, rather than move back in with me and the children.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This may not be true! He may RATHER come home (as evidenced by his continual phonecalls...and by his anger...we do not get angry over things we do not care about). He just may not know how. He may still be fog bound, and now seeing reality is causing him immense pain. He is lost...doesnt know what to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not think it is a problem with his children, but rather with me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The problem is with HIM! You must understand that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he has completely fallen "out of love" with me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, that is probably true...otherwise, how could he have left? But this is not a marriage ender.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that by doing a Plan B, I'm making it worse, because he doesn't want to come back.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then why does he call...why is he angry? Think about it Karena. His brain is not firing on all cylinders right now. But if he was truly done with you, he wouldnt call. He would LOVe the silence, he would love Plan B. But he does not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, the most difficult part is that I'm really questioning if I truly want to work out my marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All natural. That is part of Plan B. You lock away what love you have for WS, and you begin to get your life together. That way, if it ends, you are prepared. And if not, then the love you have for him is locked away and will return. This is natural (read my Plan B thread).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is now looking to share an apartment with someone, rather than try to work on us.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He still isnt ready to face reality fully yet. He was FORCED into not being with OW. But he still hasnt addressed himself in all of this. Some alone time might do him some good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, he sends me e-mails that he will do anything, but in reality, when it comes down to it...he doesn't...they are empty words.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fog does that. It takes pain to come out of the fog. He hasnt had enough pain yet to make him want to do so. Leave him in the darkness for awhile. Even the OW is not there now. Eventually, the pain will make those words into actions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm beginning not to care, my head is turning by other men and compliments and I'm scared to death.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All natural parts of Plan B. I had actually met a woman that I thought I might pursue romatically once my divorce was done (read the thread). It even made me want to force things faster and get the divorce finished. But, even though I was lining up for the divorce, all my wife saw was plan B. And in the middle of all of this, she showed up at my door.

Your feelings are a ntural part of Plan B. I had the same ones. Unfortunately, your husband's are natural ones also. This is what happens to WSs in Plan B.

So, stay dark and just wait a little while. Get your life together. Be wary of other men. You are ripe for your own affair...and it would be an affair because you are still married. If you decide to divorce, you want to do so for the right reasons (because the marriage is over) and not because you found someone new.

I think I would wait awhile longer and just concentrate on you and the kids. Let him deal with the aloneness.

You may be turning the corner, but I think you still have a little ways to go before he is truly ready.

In His arms.

Karena,

I went back looking thru my Plan B thread that I posted above, and I re-read a post by Just Learning that is PERFECT for you because you are right where I was. So, read and enjoy the musings of the master JL...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MM,

You are making something very very simple very very hard.

First, I really endorse all that the people before me have suggested. I would however like to put what they have said in a different light. So you are really NOT hearing anything new, just repeated in a slightly different way.

I see your position as the simplest of all positions and thus you have NOTHING to worry about. Do you believe that? You should. Allow me to expound on this.

First, you are emotionally ready to "stack arms" and call it a day. The pain has stopped. So what is the problem? You have none here. You are ready and capable, and you know life will move on. You KNOW you can take care of 3 kids and still work: you are doing it. You know another woman will find you attractive and be interested in you. You know you have done all you could and the reward for your efforts is PEACE.

I see no problem.

You say you fear going back into the pain. My STRONG recommendation is simple, DON'T GO BACK INTO THE PAIN. Dah! Was it painful to eat dinner and hold your W? NO! Why? No OM, she WANTED to be with you, and frankly you felt safe in your position to offer your shoulder for her to cry on. No pain here, right?

You worry about whether the marriage could be rebuilt or that you really WANT to stay married to her. Yes, your marriage can be rebuilt. No you don't want to stay married to the woman you have been married to for the last 19 months. But, what if a NEW woman appeared in your life. She had a new career. She loved your children. She loved you and appeciated what a strong man you are? What if this woman showed up in a few months. Would you divorce the old wife and take up with this new woman? You bet your bippy you would, IF you were divorced.

BUT, what if this new woman was your W? Well, then you could be divorced or you couldn't be divorced and you could take up with her. First, you would have to learn about her, you would have to discuss your goals and hers. You would need to agree on child rearing questions, money questions, sex, and how deep your love was for each other. The last one takes time to discover.

Where is the problem? I don't see one. Your W or another woman is going to have to fall for you and you are going to have to fall for her. This can happen before the divorce if it is your W or it can happen after the divorce then it can be anyone. No problem it will happen in its time.

Are you getting the picture here? You are a man capabe of love and fidelity. You are capable of raising your children on your own, if necessary. Your W is the one with serious decisions to make. Then she will have to figure out how to overcome what she has done.

My only other strong recommendation to you is to LET her if she tries. I know there is a strong temptation to be hard to get. I know there is a strong temptation to protect yourself. But, you have dealt with the worst she has to offer, so try dealing with the best, IF it is offered.

I agree with Coffeeman and others, she will have to earn it. But the earning shouldn't be to overcome barriers from you, but simply just YOU.

You have trusted God so far, don't waver now. Let things progress, and continue your course. This isn't complicated. She must make a decision. She must change her approach to you. You must fall in love with her again, and she with you. And then the two of you must learn about each other. You have both changed sooooo much in the last 2 years, and while you may not believe this MM, YOU BOTH HAVE CHANGED FOR THE BETTER. If that weren't true you, truely don't have anything to worry about now do you?

MM, in my life I have found that when push came to shove ALL of the major decisions in my life were really made for me. When it all played out there was only ONE way to go. I could have chosen another, but the data was clear that this would be a bad choice, and in retrospect they were. So have faith, have patience, and smile. You have arrived. Your work is done. It is simply a matter now of seeing how other people handle THEIR decisions.

You have little reason to fear this now.

God Bless,

JL </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Thank you, thank you. Mortarman, I received an e-mail from H while I was reading yours. He contacted an attorney to discuss filing for divorce. Does this sound positive, I think not! I'm a bit sad. I would have thought that he would have fought for me...I guess I was wrong. He has an appointment on Wednesday to discuss the divorce. He said, "If this makes you happy, I wish you all the happiness in the world." I just feel so unappreciated and alone.

I guess that this is a natural course. I have to get over this eventually; I now realize that all of this cake eating was exactly what it was. I truly believed that he was coming home to us; when in reality, he wanted the best of both worlds. 15 years..all to end on such a sad and harsh note.

I feel very sad and I had hoped for a more positive outcome.

Karena,,,

His response is all part of the posturing in response to your plan B letter...

Ofcourse this isn't what you want...and if you have stated clearly what you want...he knows this...this is no different and carries no more weight than his nasty emails...

even he goes through with paper work..nothing that can't be stopped reversed or started over...

Plan b is without blame ..
it is removing yourself from the pain of a triangle that you no longer want to be part..
it is admirable...and sensible, logical and even with out blame..

He knows what you want..if your plan b letter was well written..

people that continually make choices that cause so much pain to themselves, their spouses, their children...and even the OP...are not in a state of mind of liking themselves very much...
there is not much about their actions that is honorable...
do not assume his not coming home to you is all about you..
his own feelings of self worth and worthiness play in to this well...

coming home is hard...
it is easy to stay away and hide than facing the realities of his actions and choices...

but as that saying goes...no matter where you go...there you are...so even his hiding and ducking...he still has to face his-self in the mirror...and he probably doen'st like the person who looks back at him...
hold tight\
buckle up...

this is just a dip perhaps from the dip himself.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
ARK

Karena,

Ark is right! Just because he saw an attorney doesnt mean anything. Hvae you seen paperwork? Nope. Until you do, then it is all talk.

I talked to my former pastor in the middle of my Plan B. I wanted a church court to divorce my wife from me, so I could proceed with a legal divorce (I was trying to make sure I did everything Scriptural). He told me that 2/3rds of the people who had divorced over the last 5 years have actually gotten back together and remarried. Two thirds!

So, as Ark says...put your helmet on. There is a rough ride ahead. By staying in Plan B, and staying dark, only your husband has to endure the worse of the bumps.

Remember, according to you, your husband was just calling and complaining about your NC, about how he still misses you. Then, he went to see and attorney? Does this sound rational to you? Come on! He is under the influence of fog.

Hang tight and dont be so defeatist. Sure, your marriage could still end. The jury is still out on that. But YOU arent ready to be divorced yet, as is evidenced by your posts. So dont get divorced. As JL said above...no problem! Let hiim do all of the work.

I still say your WH is scrambling to find himself and may be so down on himself (as Ark stated above) that he cant see how it will ever work...so why not just end it? The problem is, he is showing evidence that he still loves you. And that will continue to eat at him.

Leave it alone for another week, two weeks. I think you will find some more info will come in as you stay dark. And that info will tell you where things are headed.

Time to pray Karena...and work on yourself. Stay dark...stay dark!

In His arms.

Mortarman and Ark...thank you, thank you, thank you. Your responses make a whole world of difference to a person when they are in the midst of a crisis. I know I am redudant in many of my posts; but I go through a series of ups and downs...compliments of my H, but due mostly to my own enabling to allow him to do so. Last night was a very bad night for me. Let me explain.

I was very good all day about not "responding or reacting" to H's e-mails. Then, the voice mails started. I did good in not answering, but then he left a final message that he was coming over to put things right. That meant in H talk, I'm going to visit to try and to smooth things over. I was ready or so I thought I was. I was not. He came over and I did not speak...at all. He was just "it is all my fault". I do not want to go into the whole scene because it wasn't ugly...just pathetic. I tried three times to get him to leave, but I did not want to call the cops because my little one was there and I didn't want to scare him.

Anyway, he left (stormed out actually) telling me he wishes that I get cancer and die, etc., etc. Then he calls up, apologizes not to me, but for his behavior in front of my mother and then starts again blaming me. Everyone...it is my H's problem, I know, and I know Plan B provides me safety and sanity from this. I know, I know and will try again. It is an absolutely horror. He continually says, "I cannot live on the office floor anymore (that means in H talk...I'm getting ready to move back in with her)...please do not send the private and personal e-mails I sent you (in H talk this means, you are ruining my chances to maintain a relationship with her), etc., etc.

Apart from the traditional Plan B advice and the slap on the hands for being such a coward and not calling the police (in order to shield my little one from the histronics)...what could I do??? I know I keep asking, and I am not a dumb woman, trust me..just a hurt and humiliated woman who desperately wants to save her marriage, but is losing faith fast and furiously.

Kim

karena,,,,

I do believe that you need to be more vigilant in avoiding contact with him right now..

he just sucks you in to inane and insane conversation, powerstruggles...and same old same old patterns of the blame games....

The only way to let him in to get this deep in to conversation is when he tells you he has left the OW and wants to work on his-self and the marriage...anything else is just poop...

Don't waste you time trying to get him to leave..you leave...

karena...time to step back..and see his real pityfullness in this...AND how rather funny it is...

learn to babble back...
inane comments beget inane responses...

I cannot live on the office floor anymore
you respond with..

I would think not..what if the police show up and put tape around you...where they find your body...won't you be embarrassed waking up to that?

please do not send the private and personal e-mails I sent you

funny you should mention that...news of the wierd did call..they thought they might make a good story.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

and you MUST batt your eyes and smile...

If he does come over...be busy..
be upbeat...
be like holy heck I wasn't expecting YOU...
it's a shame I am to busy to entertain you right now...

karena...you feel out of control because you keep letting this irrational thinking person who is grasping at straws to justify their own poor choices and behaviors be everyone else responsibilities...he plays you like a violin...or if pepperband was here a ukulele... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

you feel this way because you keep inviting his insanity in...

I would also suggest 180's...on him...
does he watch the kids...see them..
make arrangements for him to have the kids and go out looking fabulous as if you have somewhere fab to go..you can even do this in plan b..

he believes you are home pining and whining about him....change that...get in control of that...
go somewhere...do something...but what ever it is..make it NONE of his business..create the illusion you are moving on without him...

the more you stay part of his cakeeating triange...the more you feed him and the OW fodder to focus on...when they have to focus on themselves and their choices and actions...things get really uncomfortable...

search for Hey carolKH..can you elaborate on your story..

it's a seven page post filled with creating the illusion of moving on...
Plan b should be totally dark....but you can do some 180's to help you feel in control..

if his mouth is moving..you should hear..blah blah blah blah...

hope you get cancer and die... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

yep there's a mature worthy specimen....
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
babble back..yeah well hope you get a tape worm...
and it comes out your nose... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
i mean honestly....

sheesh...
babble babble babble...
ARK

Hi Karena,
One key aspect of plan B is that you are crystal clear under what conditions you will be want to have him back. One of these is of course a demonstrated commitment to the relationship and NO CONTACT with OW. You are right to be sceptical - you believed him in the past, you were dissappointed over and over again. Supposed that he indeed agrees to the two conditions stated above, you should ask him - what will he really do to convince you? what is his plan? will he account for his time? show you credit card and phone statements? etc etc. Only then a basis of trust can be re-established, only then can love start to grow again. Of course at the moment you "have fallen out of love", and he too, but that can mend back - provided the basis is laid for a trusting relationship.
So: If he really agrees to the two conditions - I think you should try. You'll be in an enviable position which not many BS are in (myself included - WW still thinks to this date that she was 100% right, and never thought of giving up contact with OM). If you are sceptical - tell him in a 1 or 2 line email, and tell him why, and then go back to NO CONTACT. and NO CONTACT means exactly what it says on the tin - whether he is mad and pi**ed off at you because of this is essentially his problem, not yours. You move on with life.
N

An all-purpose babble response:

WS says "blah blah blah"

YOU say: "I'm going to put that in my diary. Thanks."

Then do what Ark says .... be happy and waaaay too busy to talk (which translates to mean .... too healthy to engage in the arguement that he is trying to instigate)

Get your feelings behind your Plan B .... not in front of your Plan B.

You DO have control over YOUR attitude. Take control!

Pep (playing on the uke "tiptoe through the tulips with me) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />