Pepperband

I was reading through your comments to Queen regarding the 2 kinds of cheaters.

1. The one who made a huge mistake only once and now want to recover.

2. The one who treats infidelity as a lifestyle choice and remains unfaithful over and over....

I'm afraid to admit that I think I screwed up and married Number 2.

My H is a career AF flyer. We've been married 19 years. He had traveled the world extensively. Lots of opportunity to cheat.

He's never agreed to fill out the emotional needs questionaire, but if I did it for him I'd put admiration as his top need.

He seems to desperately need continued stroking of his ego. He works out at the gym a lot and looks great. He is always striking up a conversation with women everywhere....restaurants, grocery store, carwash, anywhere. Has that wandering eye that checks out anything in a skirt.

We are trying to recover from an A that's lasted quite a while. Other than that he's only admitted to being unfaithful while in Thailand in a "massage" place. I feel deep in my heart that there have to have been many more.

Not long ago I asked regarding his longterm A,
"When did you first have sex with her?" His reply was about a week after I first met her. I had been under the impression that it was months after and that they had formed a friendship first. I guess they got to be really good friends in a week.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, it's just that what you wrote really hit a cord with what I've been thinking/feeling lately.

Can I accept this and be happy. Heaven forbid I should actually have the truth to base my decision on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Thanks for listening

MK

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: marykat ]</small>

Hi Marykat,

My husband was #2. Adultery as a lifestyle. I had no idea for 25 years. He had a couple of flings, once with a local girl at a port call his ship made and another with a Korean prostitute. I found out about both of these shortly after each incident when I intercepted letters they had written to him. I forgave them both because he seemed sooooo sorry.

What I didn't know was that he had been having long term affairs (one on and off for 20 years and another for 4 years) which he hid from me until last July. I was totally devastated and would have left him had we not been stationed overseas with a son starting his senior year of high school. We also started counseling with a wonderful priest who cooled things down a bit and became a voice of reason for both of us.

We just made the move back to the US and our youngest has just started college. It would be the perfect time for me to bolt except for the fact that my husband shows me each and every day his resolve to change. He finally realizes the damage he has done through his selfish actions and resolves to never going back to who he was. I wouldn't stay with him for one more second if I wasn't seeing these changes.

This doesn't mean that there aren't huge issues looming over our marriage (like you, Marykat, I believe there were probably other women he's not admitting to) and I'm not totally sure things will utimately work out. I understand perfectly well that men like him tend to relapse. Like your husband, he had become addicted to the ego-stroking he got from the other women.

For my part, I'm trying to give him the things he needs to be happy, though I'm still carrying around a lot of anger and resentment for the cavalier way he has approached our marriage. Looking back on the past 25 years, I feel like I've been scammed by this man that I trusted. I gave up having any kind of career to follow him around (we've moved 14 times) and support him in his career which has been nothing less than stellar. I don't know what to "do" with the last 25 years that we've been living a lie. I can't bring myself to look at our old photo albums.

And like you, I have an exit plan if he screws up again.

But I've put my trust in God that things will be okay and that is a comfort and what keeps me going. I pray that things will work out for you and your husband.

No great insight here, just my story.

How many times did Bill cheat behind Hillary's back?

Who knows .....

But, Hillary knows the score, and apparently accepts the limitations inherent in their relationship ....because of the perks she receives.

I think she has a good and satisfying life despite being married to a serial cheater.

All I am saying is this .....

If you're married to a pit bull ....

...don't pout and cry if he's not acting like a poodle.

It's OK to accept those limitations. It is a choice you have. But, really know your own limits befor you make a choice like that.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Marykat,

I'm married to a former serial cheater. It started with an initial affair that involved another emotionally messed up soul. He thought that he was in love with her after knowing her for a couple of weeks. They had one sexual encounter and then he told me about it, almost a cry for help sort of thing. Or so we thought! Then 3 years later, after swearing he would never hurt me again, he ended up with 2 other women within weeks of each other....this time only for sex...no emotional involvement. This should have been a hint for him of what was to come, but of course, he couldn't be that honest with himself. I didn't know about any of the others until January of this year.

Five years after that he had another emotionally involved PA that lasted for a month or so. She dumped him because she knew my daughter and also knew what they were doing was so wrong. They had planned to dump me and be together, but she couldn't go through with it. Then four years later he had a string of four sexual encounters with women he barely knew over a period of about 6 months. The last one was only 25 years old and when the encounter was over, she screamed at him to get out of her apartment. He was freaked out. I think that this is when he finally realized that he wasn't just "entitled", but that he had a real problem. I believe that he had sex/love addiction tendencies the whole time, but that toward the end is when he realized how bad it could get. He didn't want to be who he was, but he didn't know what to do either. If he told me, he thought that I'd leave him.

The guilt and shame ate him alive and he ended up having an exit affair in Dec. of 2002. He didn't go with her and finally confessed everything. He didn't do that on the first day though...it took a couple of days for it all to come out.

His biggest need is definitely for admiration. He didn't go with any woman that didn't express some form of admiration toward him first. He did flirt, but NEVER made the first move. It's unbelievable how many women are not afraid to do this even when they know a guy is married. If he flirts, they think that he's available. They just don't care and they also feel entitled.

I don't blame you for wondering. I would suggest that you sit him down and tell him that your intuition, which you deeply trust, tells you that something has gone unsaid. Tell him that coming clean with you does not mean that you are dumping him and leaving (their biggest fear). Tell him that you want to build your relationship on truth and honesty and you need him to give that to you. Tell him that you see a pattern with him and you can no longer deny this feeling you have.

Is this risky? Yep. But do you want to go on like this forever? It's just one of those conversations that sometimes has to happen. He might be telling you the truth already, but then again....???????

My MC says that I have to learn to trust my instincts. There were times when I asked my H if he were cheating again when I had those feelings and he denied that he was. I remember finally letting those thoughts go and no longer asking him and yet still wondering. I wish I would have listened to my gut then. She says that most women "know" what is going on, but they won't listen to their intuition.

Stillwed

Fool Me Once

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm happy to hear from you. Have you been to Waffle House yet? That's our big "can't wait to do" when we get back. I'm glad to hear that things are going well for you. It does give me encouragment.

Out situations seem so close. I went back to look at your posts. I read the responses you sent to me in June just after I had found out that wh had been with ow in CA. I was shocked to read all the posts from so many on that thread. Everyone was so accurate in their interpretations.

I later found out that wh had been lieing to me again regarding that trip. He hadn't told her he didn't want to see her again. He told me the 1st of Aug that contact had continued and he wanted us both. Since then he has supposedly told her nc and that's where we are today. It's like I'm anticipating the day when I discover c is still ongoing. It's almost like I'm looking forward to it.

Anyway that's a different issue from this. I really do think I'm accurate about the serial cheating. I've questioned H about this before and he's always denied anyone else.

I completely feel the same about our life being a lie. How could he have so little regard for my feelings? I have so....... much resentment.

Who quoted Dr. Phil in another thread about "The best predictor of behavior is past behavior."

Gosh I wonder why he had those condoms is his bag back in Feb. after a trip?

I deserve better.

But how do you just walk out without all the answers? Do I just walk without actual proof of other past a's?

Pepper

You're right. Hiliary is staying for a reason. Let's list my reason.

-Financially secure - stay at home mom- trying to get back in the job market at 45, a little tough. Not anxious to change me standard of living

-Raising 2 teenagers alone doesn't sound fun.

-Don't want to spend the rest of my life alone. Maybe the unknown could be a lot worse.

-Surely there are others

But.................I do have a little pride left. I would like to be a good role model for my kids (especially my D) (and my S for that matter). I deserve better.

Stillwed

We do need to talk. We're in Europe and I've had a tough time finding a MC. We're currently on a waiting list for an English speaking counselor.

H is tired of talking. I'm going to try and bring it up sometime. Maybe after a few glasses of wine and he'll feel like talking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

This is just so difficult while attempting recovery. Harley says not to LB and withdraw any love units until you've deposited enough to have a surplus. I don't thing I'm there yet. Questions regarding lots of ow will be a LB.

I appreciate all you your responses.

Thanks

MK

-

Serial cheaters are not exclusively lifestyle choices.

Most have some common personality traits.

Narcissist personality. Your claim to ego stroking but also they feel entitled to be happy and entitled to do what makes them happy.

Sexual addicts. Though not full blown sexual addicts who seek sex at the drop of a hat many are addicts none the less. Unable to control themselves compared to a narcissit personality who simply does feel he/she has to control themselves.

Sexual predators. Those that need the sense of power....yes partly narcissist but also those who have been abused or have poor self esteem. They are less about sex and more about power...taking it back.

Last and least in my book is the lifestyle choice. I think if it were exclusively a lifestyle choice then they would avoid marriage and remain the proverbial playboy batchelor.

My two cents worth......and while I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express I did stay right next to one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Marykat,

Haven't been to Wafflehouse yet but Dunkin Donuts got a lot of our business when we first got back. Nothing like a fried glob of sugary dough to get started in the morning!

I can understand your wanting to know the whole truth about the way your husband has behaved during your marriage. There IS a difference between someone who makes a big mistake and learns from it, and someone who is so self-centered and uncaring that their own satisfaction is all that matters.

There was a 3 month gap between when I learned about my husband's 4 year affair and when I found out about his 20 year affair. The focus of our recovery took a whole new direction after I found out he had been unfaithful for the better part of our marriage. This may sound unfair, but I went from trying to figure out where I had gone wrong, to wondering who this total stranger was that I had married. I wanted to know what kind of man cheats for 25 years and has no intention of stopping. I wanted to know how he could justify his behavior even though he felt guilty and knew what he was doing was wrong. I wanted to know how he could look me in the eyes all these years and tell me he loved me. Though I hadn't been the model wife, I sure didn't deserve this.

The way I see it, I don't think you'll know the truth about potential other women in your husband's past until he starts being truthful with you about the A you're dealing with now. From what I understand about your situation, he lies to you about NC, you find out, and he only promises NC again when you threaten to leave or expose him. You've been lied to so many times you don't know whether to believe him and are steeling yourself for when it happens again (I can really relate there). He's confessed to sex with a prostitute which to a guy's way of thinking is much safer than confessing to a full-blown affair. I'm not so sure that asking him about any other women at this point would be wise. Maybe when he sees the light and true recovery starts, he'll realize the value of being completely truthful with you. First things first.

One of our new neighbors works for the CIA. Maybe he can hook us up with a couple of syringes full of truth serum! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Honestly, Marykat, I don't know if I could have made it through what your husband has dished out to you. I admire your resolve to keep your marriage together. I'll continue to pray for you and your family.

I think my wife is involved with one of them characters. When I exposed the affair to the OM's wife,(he didn't have the balls)she told me he has had 8 affairs in their 14 year marriage. My wife knows of at least one affair that he had and she is still with him. I don't understand it. Can the fog be that blinding??? The OM's wife told me he left her for 10 months once, no word, no child support, nothing. What kind of guy can live with himself when he knows he's a piece of work?!!! I don't get it, I don't get why my wife is with him even more....