We both posted the same three words on the three word thread. My 'I am lonely' appears on the first page.

I am sorry to hear that you are lonely.

Andy

You are too kind! Sorry I didn't notice you posted the same 3 words on page 1. I hope you are not lonely tonight too.

I simply have spent the whole day alone, and can't seem to find anyone to do anything with tonight either. I hate to phone up and bother my married friends when perhaps they would like a quiet Saturday night alone, not with a third wheel (me).

Upon reading your sig line, a question comes to mind....if you don't mind my asking, how did you reconcile your divorce with your Catholic faith?

Jen

How did I reconcile my divorce with my Catholic Faith?

Loads and loads of talking to my priest and lots of Confession. I made a pest of myself at the local Passionist Monastery! I went to my Diocese and was able to get a Petition of Nullity granted. This was not too difficult, as we were not married in the Church.

I still wonder what I should do regarding my faith, but I pray the Rosary almost every day and ask God for forgiveness and strength to do what He is asking me to do. I was the betrayed spouse, but I can see clearly how I contributed to an atmosphere in which her affair could happen.

Are you Catholic...is that why you asked?

God Bless You,
Andy

No, I'm not Catholic, but I am a Christian. It's part of why I've held on and let my H have so long to decide what he wants. The other part is the fact that I'm the FWS. Thank-you for sharing how you dealt with things regarding your faith.

Jen

I will pray an extra prayer tonight that you and your husband resolve your differences and come to see the God in each other.

I have followed your story for a long time and I am rooting for your marriage to work.

God Bless You,
Andy

Thank you NMWBTWBD! I appreciate any and all prayers. Even though my optimism for my marriage is nearly all gone, I still would like for my H and I to work together to recover it rather than end it and have to start the single life.

I was just reading your thread over on the D/D board. I will say a prayer for you too, that perhaps a special lady (who knows how to kiss well, lol) comes into your life soon!

Take care,

Jen

Jen, I read ForeverHers response to you on your other thread. As a strict Catholic who believes in Scripture and all that, I have to say that you are NOT going to go to Hell, you are NOT in the bad graces of God, and you are not to be judged for not being better than the rest of us. I am certainly no better than you or anyone else. This thing you did should not be hung over your head anylonger, and I would remove it from my signature line if I were in your shoes. That one act does NOT define you. You are defined as a most beloved child of God, end of story. I know that it is not really place to do this, but I declare you no longer a wayward spouse; your name is Jen Brown and God loves you.

God Be With You,
Andy

bump

I only just saw this. Thank-you Andy, you are too kind!! You're right, it shouldn't define who I am forever. But...there will always be a huge sense of regret over it within my soul, forever. My H has turned into such a different person, and those changes were instigated by my infidelity, so every time I interact with him, and experience first hand his defeatist and non-trusting ways, I am reminded of it even if he doesn't literally bring it up.

I know I should unpack my bags, and end this guilt trip, but even when I think I've managed to do this, I realize there's another suitcase full of reasons to feel guilty.

C'est la vie, malheureusement,

Jen

Jen, let me get this straight, by not saying anything about the outrageous statements that "Andy" put into my mouth, considering all that I have written to you over the past 1+ years, you are agreeing with his "assessment" of what I supposedly think?

Andy, there is a huge difference BETWEEN strongly encouraging someone, even using the old MB nerf 2x4 sometimes, to fight for their marriages and to do everything possible to save their marriages, AND in telling someone that they are going to Hell or that they are in God's "bad graces" when they have repented and sought His forgiveness. THAT has never entered my discussions with Jen at any time. Trying to help a fellow Christian in their struggles between the flesh nature and the spirit nature DOES come into play frequently. In fact it does in a lot of the advice given here from Christians and nonChristians alike. Ever heard of "don't Love Bust?" It's certainly not advised because we are wrong to feel so emotionally devastated. It's advised because giving in to our "feelings" will almost always lead us the wrong way and result in a negative outcome.

I think perhaps it was unwise to return to the system. Too many these days seem to opting for try for while and then get a divorce (sort of the "you owe it to yourself" type of thinking). Divorces happen. Not all marriages do get saved, for a variety of reasons. But I will always take the stance that the absolute last "best choice" is divorce. And then, ONLY after all that can be tried IS tried. ONLY when....maybe you get the idea of what "last resort" means.

So have it your way, Andy, I'm just a cold, unfeeling person, who could care less what happens to Jen or anyone else on the system.

And also for the record, if you have asked God for forgiveness of whatever it is you felt compelled to confess to Him, God IS just and faithful and has forgiven you. It is a "done deal" with God, at least according to the Scripture. That is a sure promise for those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. So if I say something that is unscriptural, please feel free to call me on it, but let's agree to use God's Word as the deciding authority since neither one of us is infallible.

You and a couple of others who have come out of the woodwork lately are interesting to say the least.

Take a deep breath FH...I am not agreeing with any supposed assessment. I didn't respond directly to that part of Andy's post because I didn't know what to say to it or about it. I am well aware that you didn't say anything quite like, "you are ... going to go to Hell, you are ... in the bad graces of God, and you are ... to be judged for not being better than the rest of us." I can see that Andy took your post(s) in a way that was different than their intention. I know that you post to me out of concern and a desire to help.

Emotion is running a bit high here lately for all of us perhaps.

I'm going to venture a guess that Andy's intent was to be encouraging to me too in his own way, and I'm sorry I didn't clearly say one way or the other that I agreed or disagreed with his remark about your posts.

As for your comment about it being unwise to return to the system, I find that interesting because I too have thought that this week, BUT, you know what? I am being forced to reexamine my perspective on things, and that is good. Even if I sort of freaked out when you posted to me on my thread, I have learned some important things from it about my own internal struggle.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So have it your way, Andy, I'm just a cold, unfeeling person, who could care less what happens to Jen or anyone else on the system. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now this is too much.....FH you are being a bit of a drama-king here (remember, I am supposedly a drama-queen, so I know of what I speak <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). We all know that you are not a cold, unfeeling person, and that the reason that you do post is because you care.

Don't let one off the cuff post make you consider not continuing to post. MB already lost way2 to that kind of thing over on the recovery board.

Even if I don't always agree with you FH, I do appreciate your input.

Jen

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Good grief and all that! My only intent was to give Jen encouragement and to defend her, I suppose from people who's rigid interperatation of our Christian faith was only causing her more pain.
I suppose I did read too much into what FH wrote to you, Jen, but to me it seemed a little callous.

I will not say that I did not mean to hurt your feelings, FH, because I was upset with you for what I saw as your preaching to Jen when I was sure she was well aware of the spiritual and Scriptural implications of her actions, past, present and future. What I heard was you condescending to her. If I am wrong about any of this, I am sorry.

For me, this topic is emotionally charged, because my own ex wife, whose name is Jen, does not show any signs of wanting to come back and I would do anyhting to have my Jen behave as Jen Brown has behaved for the last year.

I would like to hear FH's and JB's responses to what I have written here.

GOd Bless,
Andy

Jen, just call me the "drama king" from now on then.

Seriously, though, I am really tired and I'm not sure that I really want to "give" anymore. See, I do understand your emotions and how draining it all is.

I've been "fighting the fight" since Feb. of 2002 and I'm not sure how much fight I have left in me.

What I said on the other thread is true, if it were not for God and His strength I would not be married now. I waited and waited too, sometimes things seem to be going okay and other times things seem to in the toilet.

I mentioned to you (or maybe it was others on the Recovery Forum) that the last contact I was aware of that my wife made the scum of the earth (who I have not forgiven) was last May. I just about threw in the proverbial towel that time because that made a year of contacts. You see, each and every time that there has been a contact, I have had to discover it, just like I had to discover the 6 year affair when I found the photographs. And the timing of those contacts was "uncanny". Just about the time that I would climb out of the pit from the previous contact, bam!, I'd learn of another contact and spiral right back down into hades.

So, "fat, dumb, and happy" just found out this morning about more contacts since last May. Some 38 of them that I have proof of (all by phone - who knows if there was face to face contact). So here I sit asking God for more strength and trying to decide if it's worth the fight anymore. The only positive that I see is that the contact was heavy in June, only 4 times in July and none in August to the present. At least none that I know of. And THAT'S the problem isn't it? The not knowing.

So I'm not ready to give up yet. I'll give it another go, maybe until Holloween, or Thanksgiving, or Christmas, or the New Year or maybe to the original d-day of Feb. 15th. I haven't quite decided on that yet. But I can tell you the difference between a wife who confesses and one who is essentially "dragged" out of an affair is enormous.

It takes two, Jen, to make a go of it. As I said to you before, don't give up until you've tried everything you can and still can't get anywhere. I knew going in that Class II affairs (from Torn Asunder) are the toughest to recover from and I can honestly tell you that the total destruction of ones' hope, dreams, belief in spouse, trust, love, etc. is so total that I, at least, do not know how people manage recovery without God and simply trying to be obedient to Him. Because every fiber of one's flesh screams to get out. What you want to do is just run and hide. You don't want to "talk about it". You just want to "be". Sound a little similar to what you might be hearing from your husband?

So Jen, if the "counsel" sounds harsh at times, I guess part of it is because as much as I think your husband is behaving like a spoiled little child, I also understand the devastating feelings that he is probably trying to make sense of....and he isn't leaning on God for help. So with that, I will bow out of the advice business for a while. Maybe permanently. I haven't decided on that either.

But the folks who have been counseling you to throw in the towel are well-meaning, but they are not following what God teaches in scripture. Keep trying and keep leaning on God. The more you mold yourself to Christ's likeness, the more God will speak to you and, if necessary, tell you when it is time to move on. Jen, read the scripture for yourself. Read something every day. I can't emphasize that enough. Go to the source for your counsel and be very discerning in what advice you accept and apply from the rest of us amateurs.

God bless and good luck. Take it one day at a time.

Andy, I've written a lot to a lot of folks, both here and in emails to some.

Feel free to search on my member number and it will pop up a bunch of them for you to pick from.

Most of my posting has been on the Recovery Forum. I began on the JFO forum before moving over to the RF. There have been some posts on GQ II and a few, mainly on theological discussions with some agnostics and atheists, on the on the Emotional Needs forum.

But I really don't have it in me right now to engage in discussions with any new folks. It's time I spent a little time focusing on ME. Time to shove the Giver over a little and let him hold hands with the Taker for a while.

I hope you wife comes to her senses. Regardless, lean on Christ for strength, wisdom, and understanding. Learn, especially about what to do to be obedient to Him when the days are "tough".

I, for one, just hate the idea that Satan is laughing at us.

God bless.

Dear ForEverHers,

I understand how you feel about not having the energy for any kind of theological discussions.

You know what? I am not mad at you at all. I am hurt and lonely, because of the events of the past couple of years. I am so lonely that I will try to enage anyone in any kind of talking just so that the pain I feel is lessened, even for just a bit.

Satan is laughing his backside off at all of us, trying to separate us from our Lord. It sometimes feels as if satan has succeeded in my case, but I keep coming back to Him.

GOd Bless you, and if there is ever anything I can do for you, my email address is in my signature line.

In the love of Christ,
Andy

Forever Hers,
I am sorry about your findings with your wife. It is hard when you start to trust and get blasted with information again. You shouldn't have to check up on your spouse, who is to be your partner and not your child, but doesn't act that way.

But the folks who have been counseling you to throw in the towel are well-meaning, but they are not following what God teaches in scripture..

This is simply not true. I am a Christian and I believe pornography is adultery. I believe her h is too involved with 2 OW. I believe that God allows divorce for adultery. He hates divorce but he allows it. He also allows it when the unbeliever chooses to leave. Jen committed adultery and Jen's husband committed adultery. The marriage is hurt and damaged and both have to work to repair it. If her husband can't do that, I just think she needs to evaluate what changes have or have not been made, and I don't feel over a year is being impatient. She can't keep living in this mess. She is dealing with daily guilt and God is a God of forgiveness and mercy and I don't think He wants her to continue to suffer.

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

Andy, I can see where you found FH's other post on my thread to have a callous tone. Most of it is familar information that FH has told me before, but it left me frustrated, especially when he felt the need to remind me that, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen, you committed the adultery with his best friend. While I think that your husband is having an especially difficult time dealing with the fact that his wife would "spread 'em" for anyone, let alone someone he thought of as his best friend, it was YOUR decision that predicated this whole mess. It was YOUR decision that has left you with these tough consquences of your actions to deal with this past 16 months.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, considering that FH has gone through yet another gut wrenching blow and has found out about more continued contact between his W and OM, combined with FH's genuine intentions of trying to help me, I can understand where some of the intensity may have been coming from, and hold no anger or grudge there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because every fiber of one's flesh screams to get out. What you want to do is just run and hide. You don't want to "talk about it". You just want to "be". Sound a little similar to what you might be hearing from your husband? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh indeed, FH, sure sounds a LOT like my H! What's tough though is it seems that talking about it is a must in order for there to be true recovery by the sounds of things. We must turn towards our spouse even if they are the source of our pain, and work through it all with them.

Take a much needed break from the giver role, and perhaps reach out for some help. If I had any useful advice to GIVE to you (instead of taking - time for that role reversal as you say), I would! However I don't know where to begin really, so I will just say a prayer for you, your wife and your marriage again.

And Andy, I pray that your Jen wakes up and returns to you too!

God Bless you both,

Jen