Hello to all BSs, WWs, FWWSs, OPs, everybody who is in recovery, and all those who go by without an acronym these days...

I haven't posted for a while due to the fact that nothing's changed in my situation which is pretty much a "classic".

Recap:

WW leaves for a wonderful OM, BS does 5 months of plan A, then moves to a strict plan B, betters himself, starts to enjoy life (one baby step at a time), locks the lovebank for future use, etc...

In the meantime, WW and OP are supposed to feel guilty, LB each other, the grass gets yellow by the hour... Only, it doesn't look to happen from where I am standing. Instead, they moved in together, have our D (12) every second week, no signs of guilt eating them from inside, everything is perfect in la-la land. Our D is not happy, but is getting used to the situation. I couldn't do anything (legally) to stop them from involving D into their lives. Her mom (WW) still calls the OP "friend", but cannot/would not explain D why they're sleeping in the same bed.

I don't want to sound defeatist, but despair and disbelief is starting to set in. I cannot see any indications that WW (or the OP for that matter) has a hard time dealing with the "pain and guilt". Au contraire, plans are being made (and successfully implemented), friends that initially were "cold" warmed up for them. Life looks good. Of course there are some minor inconveniences, such as driving D every day to school, which is far from where they live. Adjusting to our D needs is probably hard for OP as he is now "dad and the head of the family" not a "romantic affair partner". Overall, it's bearable for them. They reached the "promised land".

I had to meet WW (separation agreement) and she started the blame game immediately. I was like a parrot saying "I will be able to talk to you only after the affair ends." It didn't seem to bother her, she just laughed ("When are you going to undestand, it's not an affair!!!!) and continued to blame me for something I didn't do... I felt very stupid. Not being able to defend myself as I don't want to play the "blame game" explaining that it's not true. Very humiliating experience. I know it's not true, she knows it's not true, yet she shamelessly lies and distors the truth.

I reached a point of total indifference towards my wife. She doesn't spark any emotions in me when I think of her. She is a stranger. The situation doesn't get any better, and I often think that I am wasting my time.

So, I would like to ask everybody who had been a WS or OP who reached the "promised land" and felt really happy. Felt a genuine happiness of accomplishment when the future looks very good, BS is pretty much out of the picture (plan B), there is no more need to hide anything (except from your kid that knows everything anyway), DV is 4 months away... Everything looks GOOD! Was it really a happy time?

Please tell us how it felt. I would really like to know.

BigStar

<small>[ September 16, 2003, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: BigStar ]</small>

Well, I'm not answering your real question, but I do have an observation.

When your WW says "it's not an affair", she gives away her concience. She is indirectly revealing that she knows that affairs are wrong and that she is ashamed of having one.

You do have the high moral ground. Anybody who has to say "it's not an affair" is already at a disadvantage.

-AD

AD,

Thanks for your reply.

She does know that the affairs are wrong, yet it doesn't look like she is in tourmoil. At the beginning of the affair, when she wouldn't reveal that there is an OM, she was more torn by it, I could tell. She once even told me that she knows she affects our D the way she acts, but could not do anything about it.

Now, she doesn't think that D suffers, on the contrary, she thinks that D "enjoys" OM's company. I know for a fact that it's not true. D does not "enjoy" the person who wrecked her life.

I am thinking that WW is now numb to her feelings. She stuffed them so deep... She is desperately trying to make the A "work". Even if it means hurting her D. Looks like WW is getting used to the "pain". Accepts it, if you will. She bet heavily on OM and accepting that her choice is wrong is too hard. She'd rather sacrifice herself (and everybody else) in the process of proving otherwise.

<small>[ September 15, 2003, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: BigStar ]</small>

HI Bigstar,
I was the WS, and I never reached the 'promised land'. Perhaps to my exH it looked like it, but we certainly never got there.

I never lived with the exOM. My children disliked him vehemently, and they met him after I'd been separated about a year.

Give it time, I think their bubble will burst. My affair lasted 17 months after DDay, and I ended it right before the D was final.

The fact that you're at MB and you're analyzing the whole situation tells me that you would be willing to work things out if she were to awaken from the fog.

You said one thing that struck me as so true. That was: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is desperately trying to make the A "work". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I knew early on that the A was a horrendous error, even before separation. I just couldn't get myself out of it. (chose not to, selfishly) The more my life changed due to the affair (separation, OM moving local, etc) then I felt I had to make it work or I'd look like a complete jerk. Then I realized I didn't care how I looked, I wanted out of the A. Your wife may feel this way too. I'm sure from the outside I looked pretty happy to my exH, but maybe not.

Take care of yourself and hang in there. It's not over yet. I need to write my 'How I came out of the fog' thread.

HP

Thanks so much HP,

I really appreciate your input. It gives me a lot of food for thought.

I am "hanging in there", but it becomes harder and harder. I don't consider myself a weak person and can go on forever when I know I am right. But sometimes I think that I am wrong. Maybe they are meant to be together? After all, she was unhappy with me. I don't want to hurt her and make her guiltier than she is. I would like to free her of that, and I'd do it in a heart beat if I was convinced that she is and will be happy in the future.

I understand that an affair is an affair and it was a choice, but if it brought her to a happier place I am glad for her. Granted, it was selfish and disonorable, but if this was the only way for her to break free from me, why not? The goal justifies the means.

I don't know if I make any sence, and maybe what I am saying is not MB-ish at all, but that's why I am here. Looking for answers. Trying to see the reality without the smoke screen.

It's been more than a year since their EA started and more than 8 months since the PA. Something tells me it's time for them to grow tired of it or take it to the next level (learn how to live together after the chemicals wear out). Looks like they started to learn just that.

HP, please tell us how you came out of the fog. I am sure a lot of us will be interested to know how it actually happens.

Thanks again,

BigStar

BigStar,

Good to read your post - again, I marvel at the similarity of our situations. Here's a pat on the shoulder and a slap on the wrists from me -

First of all, I think you're doing the right thing - the fact that she cant wind you up anymore (or, at least, not that much anymore) is proof that you successfully managed to put some emotional distance and/or barriers between you and her. I literally feel how you are letting go… that's the route to go.

HAVING SAID THAT, there are 2 points in your posts which I disagree and where you should evaluate your position and feeling and thinking -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
D does not "enjoy" the person who wrecked her life.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DON’T think that. DON’T say that. You want your daughter to be strong, high on self-esteem and confidant Don’t (even subconsciously) make her feel "wrecked" or feel low. Now, I know you probably didn’t mean it the way I put it here, but nevertheless, it's important to draw the distinction between the family unit (which is wrecked) and the individuals (which are not… at least not those who chose the path of truth and moral high ground!).

Secondly, you seem disappointed that plan B doesn’t seem to work, that she didn’t come back crawling on her knees asking for forgiveness. Well, in an ideal world this indeed would be nice. But you know what, plan B works in any case FOR YOU as by putting emotional distance between you and her, you learn not to get wound up by her that easily, to let go. I find it work similarly to plan A in that, even if not "successful" in the sense that it brought me my wife back, it enabled me to go to plan B knowing that I did and tried everything. Similarly, plan B will either bring me back my wife, or enable me to draw a line, divorce and move on with life. And you seem to be on a good track, just focus on yourself, enjoy the football and the motorcycling.

Cheers
N

<small>[ September 16, 2003, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

You're absolutely right Nick on both counts,

I shouldn't let my D think that her life is "wrecked". It is not. I never said that to her. She has a very mature understanding of what is going on and how it affects her.

When I say "wrecked" I mean those times when she can't find her book in the morning that was left at the apartment, her riding pants, helmet, etc... Her best friend's parents don't allow their kid to visit D when she is not with me. Waking up an hour earlier than usual to get to school. I mean the things that already influence her life now. In a small way, I admit. She is adjusting. We're all adjusting to cushion the effects on her, but it something she wasn't supposed to go through. She knows that.

You're right, her life is not wrecked and she must not feel down because of her parents' mistakes. But the reality is there. She suffers as much we don't want her to. Although she is copping very well, I must add. Believe me, every effort from my part is directed to make her feel good about herself. She knows it. We have a very strong bond. More than I had ever imagine it to be. Remember the Russian saying "Net huda bez dobra." (There is no bad without good.), well the relationship we have is the good that came out of this bad situation. She is enjoying it as much as I do. She tells me she is lucky to have a father like me. Can you believe it!!!

About plan B not working, you know, I am wrong thinking of WW as the girl I married, not as somebody abducted. I must constantly adjust my thinking to accommodate the reality that my wife is nowhere to be found. I got so tired of this. It's very unnatural. As I said in my post, I don't feel anything when I think of her now. It happened gradually and I'm wondering what is next to expect.

Thanks for the post Nick. I like your step by step instructions. No emotions (how little they know), just the roadmap. Follow and you'll get where you want to be.

Take care,

BigStar