I'm glad that my posts help some people here at MB. That is the only good that came of the mess I made of my life--in that perhaps others can learn from my mistakes, if that makes sense. If someone's pain is eased a bit by hearing what happened to me and how I felt, than at least I've done some good in all of this.

Too late to make sense now, will respond to the questions at a later time.

I'm on the verge of falling asleep here, at the desk.

Take care,
H_P

I'm a BS and in recovery with H since Jan.OW and H started living together last May (2002) and planned wedding for Dec. Last yr. this time I found out about pending M and we weren't even D yet !! All last fall everytime I saw him I was sick thinking how happy he was and imaganing how excited they both must be to finally validate their R by getting M.
Now , hearing him talk about that time was really an eye opener. He says it was the loneliest time of his life . He lived everyday just to go to our son's football practice or games .He says he was sooooo depressed with his life and didn't know what to do to make it right .So he bought them a house in Nov. and BAM ,that didn't make the sadness go away . He kept looking for fixes and the fixes worked for a little while and then back to square one - depression . Once he saw me moving on and "happy" - he got the wake-up call !! Came to me early in Jan. to reconcile . Blow me over with a feather . They were even registered at Tiffanys for God's sake !!
The moral of the story is that things aren't always as they seem .People can really put on a front so everyone thinks that everything is rosy !! Don't always be fooled by their happy little faces !! "don't let them see you sweat"- And as I say over and over again - the best revenge is living well - when H saw how well I was doing(remember the sweat thing) it was like he snapped out of the fog overnight -go figure.
Hope this helps in the "hope Department "

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Truthfully, I don't think any OM/OW deserve any easy let downs, breakups or time to adjust. I think it's better to just walk away saying it's done! Today or tonight, all you have to do is pick up a phone or email him and say I'm done! And be sure to tell him you value your marriage,H,and child more than this. And add that you request no contact whatsoever after this.
Quite frankly, none deserve the face to face goodbye.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NewBranch, I couldn't agree more. I hope every WS that is now trying to decide how or when to end it with the OP reads your post. The time is NOW. As they say, "Just Do It."

It's my opinion that too many WS's wait for the "right" time, the "right" moment, the "right" place, etc. to tell the OP that it is over. From the time the A starts to feel wrong, the WS tends to procrastinate, fearful of "hurting" the OP, possibly even angering him/her, and then, heaven forbid, where would the WS be? The OP is furious, the BS is furious, perhaps has even moved on emotionally.

Now let me pose this question to the WS's out there who may be thinking about ending the affair, but aren't "comfortable" with telling the OP because of his/her "feelings":

Do you think the OP cares about the "feelings" of your spouse?

The OP is participating in behavior that is intent on ruining your marriage! On taking from you those things that (you know it is true) you hold dearest in your life! He/she is one of the most selfish, destructive individuals you will ever encounter. I know you don't want to accept this, but one day you will realize just how true these words are. Right now, you think the OP is sweet and loving, but you won't later on. You may think that the OP has no wish to harm your marriage or break up your marriage, but you are wrong. In spite of the facade of true caring you see in the OP, nothing would make him/her happier than for you to leave your marriage and have the other "OP" (your husband or wife) totally out of the picture! If you look deep in your heart, if you for once really look at the behavior of your OP, you will realize he/she is actively involved in a "campaign" to win you over to his/her side and away from the other side (your marriage). Ask yourself: what kind of a person would want to come in between a long-term relationship, one blessed by God?

I can only hope that my WS wakes up and realizes what he is giving up before I have given up on him. Because I believe that one day the BS just wakes up in the morning and realizes it's over, the love is gone, there is no reason to continue to hang on while the WS plays in his playground. There will be no warning that this is coming, no way to prevent it.

And it will be, oh, so sad for both individuals, because this marriage could have been saved, had thw WS taken action when he/she knew, deep in their gut, that it was time to do so.

*S*

Sparkle, well said! Weird how WS seems to think the BS will just sit and wait while they take care of OP feelings. DUH! Do BS's have no feelings? How much must we swallow?
My UH made same comments about not ever wanting to hurt anyone. Especially OW!
While I was dying in front of his eyes. That alone took him down lower in my eyes if at all possible.
And it's not my way to be patient with my life as there aren't that many years left at best!
I might be considered very wrong, but I gave him his ultimatums up front on Dday of A# 1. End it or I end us!
See, I'm not one to stick around on his mixed feelings. In my book he either knows who he wants and makes his decision on the spot. And once it's made, no turning back.
He's not some teenage kid, but an adult of mature years.
And I didn't want him if he preferred her. Nor would I want him back saying he loved her in any way, or grieving over her. Quite frankly, I'd rather have him grieving over losing me!
The problem with too many BS's is they allow themselves to be taken for granted, waiting while fog land dissipates? Shock value has great effect.
Plan B here does a pretty good job of that.
First A mine had, I found out and picked up a book on filing papers myself. Bought them, filled them out, laid them on the table. Dressed up, told him I had a date and since he was so unhappy to do this, I wasn't happy with him any more so I would find his replacement quickly. Bye!
He did a 180 so fast I couldn't get to the date I had arranged. Tore up the papers and quit his bar stop everyday, ended his little A immediately. I really was going through with it too!
Second A he had 23 yrs later. 2001. I found all the details in emails, called where he was with her and the coward ran and hid making her talk to me. I told her up front to give him a message.
I was through! She said he was coming home to me and my son told her if she contacted him again he'd make her life and her families (MW) a living hell on earth! I then sent all emails to her H and he was in the dark until then. She had to face him finally.
People put up with a lot of pain, crap and emotional breakdowns to allow the WS his/her time to do it their way.
It works for many. But the price is one I don't want to pay at all. If My US had to think on it for even a day, I wouldn't want him back.
I paid my dues in depression of years, doctors, suicidal attempts, pain like being in hell.
This time I knew he wasn't worth it. Those years were due to finding out 18 yrs later details of his first A, even though it had ended so long ago, I'd not had all the details of the sordidness and length of A. He lived and allowed me to live with his life that it had been only a couple times with her. Later I learned it had been 3 or 4 months.
Fortunately, I had toughened enough not to allow his 2nd A to put me there again. You see, the love we(BS) feel does die eventually.
When a person believes you love them so much you'll endure anything, they will definitely take advantage of it.
I changed! For the better for my health and sanity. Love yourself more than you love you S!
He wants back the woman I was, the one who would have died for him and almost did because of him! Sorry, it ain't happening because it's my self defense mechanism.
I used to lavish so much attention on him, you'd have thought I was his slave!
OW had to do none of that. I don't have to do any of that either.
I give only as good as I get now. And I take a lot more than I used to. I have gone from co dependent to independent!
And he can now work to please me in the ways I used to kowtow to him.
Never grovel, and never, never let them think you can't live without them!
My feelings will now always come first! I sacrificed me in taking care of him for years.
My weapons are honed, well in place and I know how to use them. 5 yrs of counseling for me and dozens of books have made me a fine warrior in this marriage.
I live in Ca. and the 3 strikes law is in effect for crimes, so I apply them to this marriage as well.
One more false step and he will rue the day he ever heard my name. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Treat me well to get good treatment back.Perhaps I'm like a loaded 9mm gun. Better know how to keep the safety on. LouLou

I just read some posts over on the Plan A/Plan B board from a WH. He was reluctant to end it with OW, because his W had done such a good Plan B that he was not sure she would want him back.

He was worried he would be all alone!

I'm sorry, but this is not about a choice of being alone or not...that is settling! In other words, if I can't have Person A, then I will settle for Person B, even though the one I really want is A, and I don't much care of B, it is better than being totally alone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I hope sincerely that some WS's, male or female, that are still involved with OP will post here. Let us know what's going on in your head and heart. That thread I read on the A/B board helped a little bit, from the male perspective. Do all WS's feel like this?

I'd also like to here from WS's that are trying to break the addiction and head home. How are you doing that? Are you lost in trying to deal with the feelings of the OP? Has the OP shown true colors yet? The science of this behavior would be interesting - and perhaps helpful - to all of us, BS's and WS's alike.

*S*

Hopeful Person or any recovering WS

This is a great thread, I hope more will post on it. My WW is somewhere in fogland and I hope she will eventually come out. I was kinda in a fog myself and I keep coming out, so to speak. I've kinda built up a wall to keep from hurting, but every once in a while, something will trigger my emotions. Last weekend, while watching the Broncos play football it hit me kinda hard. I think I spent about 90 percent of the time watching my favorite team with my W. She's a Broncos fan also. Last Sunday it hit me kinda hard to see my team and not have her cheering next to me. I was hoping she felt the same way, but I remembered she had to work that day. Well, Broncos play on Monday Night, I hope this brings back memories for her...

Just a question for you WS's. I didn't have a lot of time to do a very good plan A. My wife moved in with OM quickly after D-Day. I made alot of changes in my life but she really hasn't seen them. I know she knows I'm doing a great job as a father to our 2 daughters, but I've always done that. It was in the emotional, conversation, affection dept that I lacked skills. I know what I have to do now, but I haven't shown her much. Anyway, was just wondering if your spouses did a good plan A or was it that you just remembered the good times and the committment that made you want to go back? I'm in plan B and don't plan on making any contact with WW but still wondered if I had done enough in plan A for her to want to come back...

There are other things my WW is missing out on. My oldest D had a homecoming dance last night. She was all dressed up and looked beautiful. I was there to see this but WW wasn't. I hope she realizes that she is missing out on some very significant things in our D's lives. Next year, oldest D will be going to Prom. Will she miss that too? Did you as a WS, miss things in your kids lives that have an impact on the future, yours and theirs? Just wondering....

.

Hopeful_person,

I'm really glad you posted this!! I think that everything you said was true. I think for the most part the WS gets caught up in something they were not expecting.

I have spoken to my ex for the first time in a year since he divorced the OW. He has so many regrets. He did have 2 affairs in one year as I believe he was going through mid-life crisis and he has other issuues that he yet refuses to deal with. He has actually lived in a constant hell for along time. He just can't deal with everything he has done to his family and his life. In 1998 he had a wife, 3 beautiful kids, a nice home and his own successful business. By 1999 most of it was gone. He now lives in another state has just married his 4th wife, has a low paying job ect. I feel sorry for his new wife as she is a very nice person and I think he isn't stable enough to give this realtionship what it needs. He told me he missed me and the life we used to have. I told him that I know he did but he made those choices and we have both grown and changed are no longer the people we once were.

So yes, the WS eventually does regret his/her actions, but that does not excuse their actions either. I guess it depends on the BS and how long they are willing to wait and how much they are willing to forgive.

For me 2 affairs was to much. After he pretty much forced the kids and myself out of our house, and then moved him and OW and her kids in the day after we moved out was the last straw. He then married her 1 month after the divorce was final. So I did what I had to do I moved on, I have built myself a very good life and I would never be able to go back to the old life again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by *Sparkle*:
<strong>
I'd also like to here from WS's that are trying to break the addiction and head home. How are you doing that? Are you lost in trying to deal with the feelings of the OP? Has the OP shown true colors yet? The science of this behavior would be interesting - and perhaps helpful - to all of us, BS's and WS's alike.

*S*</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WS here --

This will come off the top of my head since I'm in the midst of the most confusing time of all this for me.

What's in my head?

- I love her
- I want to be with her
- I am at ease when with her
- I don't want to hurt her
- I don't want to hurt her family
- I'm hurting her and her family anyway
- I feel like filth
- I can't stop
- If I can just hold out through the worst...
- If I can wait for her to be free...
- If I can find peace of mind through this chaos
- If I can take the pain I feel
- If I can handle the pain I'm inflicting
- If I can just compartmentalize
- If I can live with myself
- If I could just make love to her again
- If I could just manage to pull my hand out of the fire
- If I could convince myself that the skin is actually boiling off of my hand
- If only she would be the one to say enough
- If only I could go back in time
- Why did this happen?
- Why was it HER?
- Why not someone else?
- Doesn't that mean something?
- No?
- Why?
- Help me on that one.
- Why does she say she loves me then asks if I could go back and fix my marriage?
- Why does she say she loves me and can't let me go?
- Why does she say she loves me and always will?
- Why does she say she loves her husband too?
- How does she keep going while I'm falling apart physically?
- Why is my mind fighting my heart for the first time?
- Why am I sharing these same thoughts with her?
- Am I hoping she'll think the same way?
- No, She's where I was in the beginning and I'm where she was in the beginning. Ugh!
- Why Is this so hard?
- What do I really want?
- How do I come to know that?
- I hate MB when they tell me how I SHOULD live.
- I hate MB when they tell me what I KNOW is right and I can't do it.
- I hate MB when they put the mirror to me and I see a coward looking back.
- I hate MB when they are so compassionate when I don't deserve compassion.
- I hate MB when they rise to my challenge and leave me bleeding.
- I love MB for all the same reasons
- I have no desire for my W
- I wanted to hold my W out of compassion for her pain for the first time in 7 months last night
- I don't want to talk to my W about the A
- I know I should be in NC if I want to heal this M
- Do I want to heal this M?
- Am I thinking of all this out of guilt?
- Guilt from knowing what is right even if I don't feel it.
- Is that the right thing to do? Is that fair to my W?
- Why is it right to actively pursue reconsiliation even when nothing feels good about it?
- Because some of the people here on this site say it worked for them so it can work for you?
- I'm afraid of being alone.
- I'm not afraid of being alone
- I'm afraid of the repercussions of this on the welbeing of my son.
- I'm afraid of what damage I may have already caused
- I'm afraid that there is no way to be happy in life again
- I'm afraid of the unknown
- The unknown with the OW
- The unknown with my W and M
- My lack of feeling for my W terrifies me
- My enormous feelings for the OW terrifies me
- My certainty of the destruction of all respect for me on my in-laws side is devestating to me
- The power of this thing over all else in my life terrifies me
- My deep and complete hate of myself is... too much.
- My deep and complete love of myself is evident in my actions
- My heart is breaking for so many reasons all at once
- The hearts I have broken... such disregard
- I know what I should do
- I know how to do it
- I know that there is hope
- I know that I can survive that path
- I just don't feel like I want it
- So I don't want my son to have the best life he can?
- So I don't want my W to have the loving man she promised herself to and expected to grow old with?
- So I don't want to have the life that I've spent all these years trying to build?
- So I dont' want my son to be able to wake up in the morning and say "good morning dad"?
- But I love her...
- God my stomach hurts
- If this is so right... why am I on anti depressants?
- This is madness
- This is madness
- This is madness
- But I love her
- This is madness
- But the skin is boiling off of my hand
- But I feel so good with her
- This is madness
- What the hell am I doing?
- Stop... just STOP!!
- God help me... this is so hard
- Why God... Why is this so hard?
- I know it is insanity and I can't stop.
- I know what's said here is right and I can't stop
- I know I'm destroying my life and I can't stop
- What if it doesn't destroy my life?
- What if I'm the 5% that make it?
- This is madness
- This is madness
- This is madness
- Can I learn to live with who I've become?
- There are no answers... only questions
- I'm so tired

-TMD

Mr. Pep was deeply and madly in love with OW for years before he and I even met. OW married Mr. Pep's best friend. Mr. Pep kept a torch for OW in his heart, and, once we married, I got what was left over. But, I did not know that at the time.

Their actual physical A lasted 18 months. I can only imagine how long the EA took to progress to that level.

So, during the later part of their 18 month PA, Mr. Pep began to fall to pieces.

Today, he shares with me that he thought of suicide at certain moments.

When Dday came, contact stopped.

Mr. Pep is happy these past 7 years ... he sings and whistles, and likes himself.

I am worried Mr. TMD is boarderline suicidal ... keep taking the Zoloft, and go speak to your church pastor. You need more than MB to hold you up .... and speaking to OW is a mistake of huge proportions, as you well know.

Your very life may be at stake.

This is no small thing.

Get help today. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pep - Thanks for your concern... I don't want to hijack this thread.

I was just doing what was requested... I poured my thoughts out just as they scream through my head just about every minute of everyday.

reading it over... I can see it's a bit spooky.

sorry - didn't mean to alarm anyone....

BTW - Today is my 13 year wedding anniversary... happy day... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

-TMD

-TMD,

If those are the thoughts of every WS out there, I can only thank God that I am not one. As painful as my life is as a BS, I would not want to be inside your hell. I really appreciate your putting it all down. What a trip!

Question for you. Are you in counseling? With so many mixed feelings, 180 degrees apart, I would imagine a counselor would be extremely helpful in trying to get it all sorted out.

TMD, this is not something you can do alone. Not something MB can do for you alone. Yes, MB is telling you the right things to do, but sitting alone wherever you live, reading these boards and perhaps SAA and/or other books, trying to get the strength to do what you know is right will not make it happen, not given the mercurial feelings you are experiencing. Then add to the mix the wonderful feelings of euphoria you experience when you see the OW, and TMD, you will never get where you need to be.

Your marriage was good. Your marriage produced a beautiful son. Your marriage was healthy and rewarding, for however many years you were in it. Then something went amiss and instead of dealing with that something, you chose a drug, and your drug of choice was the A. Go back and re-read what you wrote here. Think about those feelings, those "highs" that you experience from the OW. Think about the "confused" nature of your thought processes. Doesn't it sound like a person under the control of a drug? You are in the same boat as that poor drug-controlled individual. You need some intervention (counseling) to help you realize the path to get off that drug and live a clean life.

The love for your W can be regained. Love can be learned, and re-learned. You can learn to love her again just as you did in the past. You will regain the desire for her again. But you will never get to that point as long as the OW is in the picture.

TMD, you have to trust here. Go get some professional help, get some pastoral help, but get help. Then trust what you have read so many times here: this OW is not the love of your life. Your W is. This OW, in some period of time...months, years, whatever, will suddenly appear to you for what she really is. Someone with no respect for marriage and family - not hers and not yours. Is that the kind of individual you would want to invest your future with? I doubt it.

Your future is with your wife and with your son. Don't risk losing them and everything you have by making decisions based on your drug-induced euphoria. Get help yourself, and move post-haste to getting your marriage some help as well. Please don't delay, because your wife won't wait forever. No BS will.

*S*

**Sparkle** and NewBranch,
I needed your responses, for my husband's sake, my son's sake, my marriage and my sanity. My behavior, like the initial post, has sadden and sickened me. And your right, it's not that I can't stop, it's that I don't want too. Sometimes I find the strength to reduce my contact and then I fall weak. Help me keep my strength. It's hard to ask for the help. Especially when I read some of the post and hear the feelings of the BS. But if I stop, I will not allow my husband to feel the same.

Damaged,

You've come to a good place to get advice. As a FWS, I can relate to your confusion and difficulty in breaking off your A.

What Sparkle wrote earlier in this thread, "Just do it," is pretty good advice.

You may have read enough so far to realize that your feelings for OM are an addiction. Cold turkey is hell, but is the best way to go. I've been through it and can assure you that it gets easier as time goes by.

Often the addiction to a person is compared with an addiction to alcohol. The alcoholic has to choose not to be around alcohol ever again.

I hope this doesn't sound insensitive, I just want you to know that it IS possible to end your A and recover, after much work, of course.

Read the recommended books on this site (His Needs, Her Needs, and Surviving an Affair, for starters), pray, and keep reading and posting here.

God bless.

Lost w/o her -

Have to run to class, but wanted to write a brief answer to your question on this post about whether WS's H's plan A, or just remembering the good time and the committment is what made us want to go back.

My A was over when I confessed to my H, but he plan A'd to win my lingering foggy affection away from OM. The changes in H really helped me focus on our M AND changing myself, as well.

Hopefully your plan A behavior will leave a good memory for your WS, and if/when her A crashes and burns, she will long to be treated that well again, and realize what she lost. If she doesn't come out of the fog, at least you know you tried.

Reading about what your W missed with her D's chills my spine. I left my H and 2 teenagers to be with OM (briefly - the A crashed quickly!), and now I cannot believe I could do that.

Being reminded of what I did to my family emphasizes to me what I could have missed. By ending the A and beginning to rebuild my M, I feel like I have been pulled from a burning building just in the nick of time, and realize how fortunate I am to have escaped.

I was badly singed and burned in places, but am thankful that I have been given a second chance by God and my DH.

God's peace and love to you.

never mind.

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

bumping. Hoping for more input from current or former WS's.

Also input from those in recovery who (regardless of whether your a BS or WS) could shed some light and give us some information and encouragement.

*S*

***********((((BUMP))))*************