It has been about 10 days since I last posted. Things have been very busy in the Mortarman household. And now with Hurricane Isabel headed for us, my wife and I are gearing up to be called out (me in the military & her as a nurse). So a lot of activity here.

The last several weeks, really two weeks since we first talked to Steve Harley, things began to spin out of control. My wife was feeling despondent, saying things like "I am just never going to be the wife you want again...that I cant ever see myself being that for you." What she meant was being my freind, wife, lover, etc. She said that her feelings are not there for me, that even though I have made all these changes and are being wonderful to her, that she still doesnt feel it. As a matter fo fact, she feels worse because I have changed, I am doing all of these things...and she says she cant reciprocate.

Well, I fell for it. I began to LB...more and more over the last two weeks. Finally, last week...I was at my wits end. I couldnt listen to this anymore. I had set up another appointment for us with Steve, where we were supposed to map out our recovery plan. Steve wanted our EN questionaires. I sent mine to him. But my wife couldnt fill out half of them because she said that there was no way she could see letting me meet them. So, I was ready to cancel the appointment for this last Friday...and we were both talking about contingency plans...what is going to happen as we head towards divorce. Wednesday and Thursday, she was extremely angry towards me. Of course, I launched back...not really with anger...but with indignation. She asked how I could be so sure that we would work out, and the love would return. I told her of the Harleys andthe principles again. And I repeated the promises of God. She got angry at that one. Told me not to quote God to her (her walk with Him has been almost non-existent since the A started). She kept repeating that she has needs that arent being met (affection, SF, etc) but there was no way she could allow me to meet them.

So, my wife went off to work Thursday evening with us on divorce's doorstep. I hadnt cancelled the appointment with Steve, but figured at this point that she was so far gone, and I had no energy left to carry this anymore, that it was going to be useless. When my wife left for work (she had to work 7p-7a), I told her that I would just meet with Steve, that it was obvious that she just didnt believe in what was possible.

Well, when I came home at 9pm with the kids from a baseball game, there was a message on the phone from my wife saying that she wanted to talk to Steve also and would leave work early to be home in time for us both to talk to him. When she got home, she was still angry, still reayd to go off on Steve.

Well, Friday morning, I called Steve and updated him on what was going on. He was surprised because when we talked to him two weeks earlier, we seemed to be ready to finally institute the recovery plan. So, after updating him, he asked to speak with my wife.

They talked for over 45 minutes. And the first 20, I could hear my wife screaming at Steve from our basement office. At the end of the 45 minutes, my wife asked me to get back on the phone and she hung up.

Well, Steve gave me an earful. And for those of you headed for recovery, or those that will be in the future, take notice of this. As you all know, she came home in April. The first problem we have had is that she came home and we had no plan. Now, our problems have caused Steve to not institute a recovery plan yet, but individual plans. And here's why.

Mortarman's problemThe number one issue here for me is educating my wife...or trying to. First off, Steve said that although God has placed me as the head in this relationship, that I am not the vessel right now to bring my wife to the point of understanding. Steve said that he wasnt calling my wife an idiot, but that she still doesnt understand everything that has happened with her, and thus doesnt understand how to get out of this. So, he said that me trying to educate her on God's will, while I might be correct, will only meet walls because she doesnt want to here these things from ME right now. This information and education will have to come from elsewhere.

Which leads to the second thing he said. As you all know, I can give out the advice. I have studied everythign I can about all of this. But, I am the wrong person to educate my wife on this. I am the one person she is not going to listen to right now. So, Steve said that I needed to get out of his business. That it is his job as the counselor to help lead her to the truth...that all I will do is mess things up, even though I may be technically correct.

He said that my wife still has some fog left in her. From the OM? Not really...although she says there are times she misses him. The fog comes in still because of what I wrote about before on another thread. Reality before the affair was one thing. Once in the A, the fog rolled in and that fantasy world became reality. Now, that world is gone...and this person is left not knowing what reality really is...not knowing if she can trust her feelings at all. She believed so much in what she was doing. Now she knows it was a lie. But the question now for her is...what is the truth? She feels like she can never love me because if she does allow that, how does she know its real? How does she know it will last? So, the effects of the fog still continue.

Steve left me with both of us having our own plans right now. I am to only protect her from myself. No educating her, no demands to meet ENs...really no R talk. If she starts pulling me down that path, we now have a code phrase that tells the other to stop what they are doing. We are to say "I cant talk right now." If I am LBing or doing something that she is uncomfortable with, she is to tell me "I cant talk right now." And I am to stop immediately.

Steve's best quote of the day was that he was trying to help us to build hope. But that hope cannot be built where there is no consistency. When we have three great weeks, building up the love bank...hope is squashed in one 15 minute conversation that is filled with LBs. I asked him what am I to do when she is LBing me, when she is professing doom and gloom? He said...ignore it. I told him that she said she feels guilty for me meeting her needs. He said, then dont meet them. If she doesnt want you to do all of these things, then dont. But that my number one job is to not LB, to portect her from me. To have a consistency, no matter what she does or says, while she goes through this time of uncertainty.

So, what I guess he is talking about is a sort of Plan A. While the OM is gone, there are still parts of Plan A that work here. This is to allow my wife to finish her change, to see reality...to allow her to know what we all know here about what has happened and what could happen.

Anyway, we are to talk again to Steve next week...and we are hoping to go to Orlando to the MB Conference in two weeks. He has given us both homework to work on over this week.

Now, the results of the counseling. I came up the stairs after the call expecting my wife to be as non-commital as ever...to be just as angry. But, while somewhat wary at first, she actually was a little playful. She talked a little about what Steve said, and so did I. I sat next to her on the couch, expecting her to move away from me...but instead she plopped her feet in my lap because she wanted me to rub them.

I left for work shortly after, with things at a definite ceasefire...and I could see that her demeanor had changed. When I came home Friday night, I had gone down to the office after dinner to wrok on some bills. About an hour later, my wife comes down, and sits on my lap...tears streaming down. I asked her if she wanted to talk...she shook her head No. She stayed in my lap for awhile, letting me hold her with her head on my shoulder. She then stayed in my lap as she went online to check her email, and we talked about the weekend.

I have discussed nothing in the way of R talk. She has been a lot more loving lately, and even laid back on me on the couch two nights ago and let me just hold her and rub her shoulders. We are even kissing again.

So, the session with Steve, although I am not sure of what the majority was that they talked about, was a life saver. I really know now that this recovery thing is hard, and shouldnt be done alone. That you need someone outside of the situation to help guide the two of you back towards each other.

So, I hope this means we have learned more. I hope my wife has now at least decided she is going to trust Steve and the MB principles. she actually asked me yesterday, out of the blue, if I had set up the next appointment with Steve yet. And if I had made the reservations for Florida yet.

Tough stuff. I asked Steve what the average was for a couple starting recovery, before they got to the point where hope had taken ahold and they really started moving forward. What I was really asking was how long was I going to have to continue like this before she really was ready to meet my needs and me hers. Of course, your mileage may vary...but Steve gave it three months.

So I am stuck in Plan A for a couple more months as we work some of this out and my wife finishes clearing the fog out of her head.

Let me know what you all think.

In His arms.

Hi Mortarman. I can see it takes alot of courage and persistancy to get back on the right road, where you and your wife are equals again having the same hope, trust and love for each other. I am happy for you that you have Harley to assist you in your journey.

The ground is still shaky and you can look at it like this, the two of you have have had your own personal Hurricane called OM in your lives, and to repair the damage that has done to your relationship it does require hard work, but most of all hope, by achieving small successes.

Hurricane Isabel is around the corner. You as a military man and your wife as a nurse, have two different approaches to repairing the damage. Try to look into your marriage and see how the two of you will approach the damage differently in recovery of the OM.

I don´t know if you understand what I am trying to get you to look at here, but somehow the upcoming Hurricane is symbolic to what you have been through. How to prevent future damage. How to hold on through the worst.And how to pick up the pieces when its over. Hope. Support. Faith. Care. Love.

Think about that, and tell me if you could make the connection...

-queen-

Mortarman:

You and I are now struggling with the same issues. You are so right. Recovery is tough. I will post more on my thread about my probs.

Feel good in knowing that at least your wife will talk to Steve. He is a miracle worker and a pure genius. My H will not consider going to Florida and will not talk to Steve about our issues.

Let's encourage each other on continuing with our PLAN A.

Hang in there, my friend.

Mortarman what Steve told you about protecting your W from yourself by avoiding love busters should be forever etched in our minds. Avoding love busters should not just be when a BS is in Plan A but a PERMANENT part of marriage period. Your statement "When we have three great weeks, building up the love bank...hope is squashed in one 15 minute conversation that is filled with LBs" shows how toxic love busters are to a marriage, no matter if infidelity is involved or not. But by the same token look at the dividens you are enjoying from your W by avoiding love busters against her such as selfish demands. It is well worth it to never forget this.

MM,

Are we talking about the rule of "protection" again? Ummmmm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I do wonder what Steve told your W. It sounds as if she got something off her chest when talking/yelling/screaming whatever with him. It also seems that he told her something she needed to hear.

Doesn't sound to me that you are "stuck in plan A again". It sounds to me you are learning how to be an H. Seriously, the rule of protection is not a plan A thing. Neither are the rest of the rules.

What you don't know is that THIS is how you will have to behave for the rest of your marriage. And you are sitting here saying "What about my needs?" They will get met or they won't, you don't control that. Your job is to be the best H you can be and protect your W from whatever including you. But MM, this is the way it is going to be from now on. Deal with it.

Even if your needs are NOT met, you keep meeting hers. What will happen? Well, either she will decide she wants this marriage and starts meeting yours or your love for her will go away and divorce will be an easy and striaght foward (as straight forward as divorce can be) thing. You will know.

You are on the path, you have counseling available, you know what YOU need to do. It is up to your W to do her part. Withdrawing, LB'ing, arguing, playing any of those games will not persuade her. You give as you should to your marriage, and if you don't get back your marriage will end. It is sadly that simple. You have no control over this MM.

I know I sound fatalistic, but you must remember she is an equal partner in this marriage. You do your part, it is up to her to do her part. You cannot educate her into doing something she doesn't want to do. You may be able to browbeat her into doing something, but in the long run you will lose.

So be as good as you can be, meet her needs. THAT is working on the marriage. The rest is her decision. And if she decides to NOT meet your needs, it will do the samething to you, that you trying to browbeat her did to her. It will end the marriage.

So sit back, relax, do your best, protect your W and your kids, enjoy your retirement <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , and see if she wants to be a wife or not. If not, you are better off without her, it is up to her, let her show you what she wants.

Those are my humble opinions.

God Bless,

JL

So why is it I hear echoes of: "Work on Mortarman, leave her up to Me."?????

Some people just don't get it the first time... (me incuded...or especially) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Thanks everyone for the replies. I really needed them. It is tough doing this...but a lot less so when you have people to lean on. And even though you know what is right, it is good to hear it from others outside of your fight.

Queen: The Hurricane analogy was great! (I love analogies!). My frustration has been centered mostly on WE made the mess, but I seem to be the only one really cleaning it up right now. More on that below.

Mimi: So glad to have you here in the recovery world. I knew you would make it! And I am glad to see I was right about your husband. Recovery is tough. I got from Steve that this could take two years or longer to fully work through. That's tough considering I have already had to carry things for two years while she was in the A. But, what other choice do we have?

Coffeeman: As usual, you are correct. And JL echoed your sentiments. I really am trying not to LB. I think most of my LBs lately are due to frustration at my wife continuing to back away, continuing to state that this wont work. It is hard enough to do this...even harder with your partner continuing to tell you it wont work (more on this below). Anyway, you are correct.

JL: Yes, as usual, it seems that I have trouble with that rule. I too wonder what Steve told her...but more importantly, it is her reaction to talking to him that has actually made me feel better. I can see that she is starting to trust him a little. And that gives me hope that she is willing to be guided. As I said above, her constant pessimism weighs on me. I have felt like I have had to constantly educate her on this, on affairs, on how to recover, on what God says, etc. Of course, Steve was right...I am not able to do that right now because she is not going to want to hear that stuff from me. But she will hear it from Steve.

And you stating my needs situation is right on the money. My Taker has been in full force and he is ugly! He is scared and mad that I am continuing to give, with little to nothing in return. After two years of this affair, and then 6 months of recovery, my giver is having a very difficult time keeping the Taker at bay. And it is getting harder each day. But her talk with Steve, and the way she has acted towards me since, has helped me to quiet down the Taker some.

Remember in my previous posts when I said she didnt want to fill out the EN questionaire because she didnt want me to meet her needs. Well, she told me tonight that she will have (she brought this up) the questionaire done and faxed to Steve on Friday. Whatever Steve talked to her about definitely has motivated her somewhat.

John: You remember dont you? What God told me in Bosnia, over a year and a half ago? Unfortunately, it appears that Mortarman still hasnt fully gotten the message. And in life, it appears God will not let us move onto a new message until we pass thetest on the current one. Thanks for reminding me.

All: It actually has been a pretty good few days. I am really seeing atransition in my attitude, about SF, about affection, etc. when it comes to my wife. Like I said above, my Taker is actually pretty quiet right now, although he is keepign a watchful eye on things.

So, we'll see. I am hoping our schedules will work out for next week and we can fly to Orlando to the MB conference the end of next week. I think that conference, and a small vacation there...may be just what we need to get a good start at this.

Keep the advice coming. Like I said, we are all in this together. Some at different points on the road. Hopefully my story will help some like Mimi avoid some of my pitfalls.

In His arms.

You know, MM, I think that saying something like: "When you say something like (insert negative comment here) it really scares me. It makes doubt we can make it, and just sort of drains my energy and weakens my resolve. I hurt inside and mourn a little for what I am afraid I might lose, and what the kids might lose.", or something similar that is more in line with how YOU actually feel, would be helpful here. It is not a demand or a judgement. It is just information to her about how you feel. It is not you being strong for her - but your strength is limited, and she should know that, or her view of you is not real, and you will never restore intimacy if she is relating to an image she has of you that does not reflect reality.

It also may point you toward depending on God for strength, which you need to remind yourself of daily. I also think that there is much we can do for our spouses because we love God that we cannot do for them because we love them. Don't look to your wife to meet your needs...look to God. Your wife is God's provision for meeting many of your needs, so she is not entirely off the hook, but you have to look to the source when your wife is not coming through. He may tell you: "Well, of course she is not meeting your needs. You are preventing her from doing so." or he may find another way to provide for you while she is incapable or unwilling. I don't know. She doesn't either. But God does.

<small>[ September 21, 2003, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Hi Mortarman,
Life can be scary, can't it.

We all live with natural laws. I think the giver and taker fit in here. We need balance to be happy, and marriage is a very good example of happiness with balance, and unhappiness with things out of balance.

I have noticed in my own life that God can change the balance point - that is, he can modify the natural laws. My own taker is quite active, but I have learned that when my W isn't ready for something, no matter how bad I want it, it does not do our marriage any good for my taker to get what it wants. I have learned that God can calm my taker, make me happy anyway, and teach me in the process. There are a lot of things that I think I need that I can get along just fine without when I let him guide my actions and not my taker. I have noticed that if I lead my family be example, they come along much better.

I am not trying to say you are not, but just give you a little hope. This MB stuff worked for me. We credit it with helping our marriage a great deal, but I credit God for bringing me here, and for helping me to live it much better than I could have done on my own.

My job was not to teach my W, it was to change myself and set an example. I still attempt to educate some days, but it doesn't work for me any better than it does for you. I quickly go back to trying to improve myself and leaving my W alone. I won't be judged for how she does, but for how I do, and I have a long way to go.

Now, she does respond to my changes. They want to be in love, they really do, but we scare them. It has taken over a year and a half for my W to learn that she can trust me to keep her safe, and there are still bad days for her. I tended to say that after all, she had faults too, and isn't the easiest person to live with, but when I read what Christ said about loving my enemies, and then I realize she is my best friend, not my enemy, it is hard to find any malice in my heart for her. She has weaknesses, and I ought to help her overcome them, not berate her for having them. I notice God is very patient with me and my weaknesses, perhaps I could be more like he is, and be patient with her as she works on her own.

Now, this doesn't exactly apply to someone in the middle of an A, but you are no longer there. Your W is home, trying to figure herself out. I have to think that given time, she will be able to do that. In the mean time, as you visit with God daily, ask him to modify the law of the taker for you - just long enough to restore your marriage. I have learned that the same God that brought the children of Israel out of Egypt on dry ground, can put my taker in remission for a time to help my marriage succeed. My W loves me, I know she does, but her actions are not always consistent with that. I love God, he knows I do, but my actions don't always reflect that either, so he brings me along as fast as I can come, but he doesn't push. What a great lesson that is for me in how to treat my W.

I hope you understand that I am not trying to lecture, but only encourage. I hope this succeeds in giving you a small measure of encouragement.

SS