Ark, Pep, Shelle - Anyone.

Help.

Major Backsliding.

Went almost a month of NC. My W says that all she can do is be cordial "instead of breaking your bones or cutting off extremities like other women tell me I should." She says "that's me trying." I'm like... great! a comfortable thought when going to bed at night.

Basically there's nothing I can do to illicit any glimmer of light. Missing the OW makes it even harder.. holy crap -- is THAT an understatement.

I can't hide the hurt sometimes... (cause W said she doesn't want to see it)... Then W says... "if it will be any help, I'll free you of any obligation to me so you can go find someone else to help you through this. Because I'm sure not going to help you."

I'm like... "Huh?" so she further clarifies that it would be fine with her if I found another OW to help me get the OW out of my system. How F*d up is that?

N/C Three weeks in... I'm at the end of my rope... My counselor is telling me that it does not "serve me well" to try and try with no return at all. I reply.. "well she's not screaming at me anymore. That's a bonus I guess." Uggh -

Then the OW calls and leaves a message. 7 phone hours later...

I don't know why I come here anymore. You're all just going to tell me the same stuff you've been telling me. I know, for the greater part, you guys are right. I spent some of that 3 weeks on MB trying to convince myself that I could do this. Then this new user "8Tloser" comes on and sounds frighteningly similar to yours truly... and I have to back down from the thread because though he's a serial cheater, parts of his dialog simply hit too close to home.

I'm so emotionally exhausted that I can't get out of bed to go to work. I'm fighting the counselor about going on Anti- depressants... then after the worst week of my life... Anxiety like I've never experienced since this began... I gave in willingly. Zoloft / 50... Not working yet. So the Doc puts me on a pulmonary recording device and I have to call in the output everyday. UNBELIEVABLE!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> what's more??? My hair is falling out... *laughing* No kidding!! at this rate I'll be a cue ball in 2 months! I'm suspicious that the W is putting NAIR in the shampoo. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And I got on the scale at the dr's office and saw that I weighed 160 lbs. I was stunned... Used to be 185 lbs. I'm 6' 4" people. I look like freakin E.T.

So if anyone was doubting the genuine scope of emotional and physical impact on the WS... DON'T!

The wife looks on at this with a shrug... and wonders why I have to lay down on the couch and be quiet sometimes.

When I broke contact and changed all my contact info I had control over.... That's when I went to complete hell.

I know this will make you sick... but it's fact. It took about 5 minutes on the phone with the OW to completely shut down the Anxiety for the first time in weeks. My heart had been hammering for so long that it almost felt foreign when the peace settled in. I was able to sleep.

So fog or no fog... I do believe that this will kill me if I have to wait 2 more weeks for the drugs to kick in. THAT begs the huge assumption that the drugs will work or that I can handle them.

I'm royally screwed.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Cheese anyone?

-TMD

my my I do believe it's my favorite whipping boy....
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

it must be bad if you're even inviting pepper in on this bash fest... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OK OK OK!!! enough enough!!
I'll behave...

TMD I have LOADS to unload on you...but the dang school bus lady is mean if you let your kindergarten children wander suburbia....

I will post later tonight...

I wish you well..
breathe in and out in and out...even though it's hard to believe it ain't gonna kill ya...

...who knows on the other side of this you might be the next DR. Phil.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
bald is beautiful these days..

loads to say...

Gods Grace to you my friend...
ARK...

tmd...
my first question is what do you want from your wife...

what do you want???????????

what do you expect from her....

what do you expect????????????????????

also am I correct that niether of you have committed to repairing the relationship..
you moved back based on financial issues..

you havent' verbalized any committment..
she hasn't verbalized any committment...

what do you expect from her???????

what do you want from her??????????

ark

TMD:

I think I have the same bus driver as ARK, so have to make this short, but will check in later. I haven't had time to go and look at your story, but I do remember your response to 8TL.

I stopped to post now, because I can hear the despair in your 'voice', and even though we are at the opposite end of the spectrum so to speak, pain is pain.

It sounds like your head is going in all sorts of directions at once and therefore nothing gets resolved. Yes, it will take time for the meds to kick in, so what to do in the mean time? Don't talk to the ow! Why, because it is a temp fix, and one that resolves nothing. This is where you have to do things for you. Is there something that you have given up, prior to or during A, that used to bring you peace? A sport, a hobby? Walks? What about a trip to the library, and a book to lose yourself in?

I don't have time to comment on your W's reactions, suffice it to say that she is making a lot of statements that scream "I'm scared and the best way to combat this is to have a good offense" and "I may say this, but what I really need is reassurance".

ARe you in IC and/or MC?

Strength and Peace to you today,

AGrace

Hi TMD...i'm pretty much a lurker here (WS whose spouse doesn't know about the A)...but i wanted to post and let you know that what you're feeling is very normal, and it's a shame that the OW called at that 3 week mark, i know from experience that is the hardest part to get by...

i don't really know your story, but i assume you are still living with W and attempting 'recovery?' although to me it sounds like your wife is just intent on punishing you for your A until she thinks you've had enough..does she WANT the marriage back?.....after being where you are, i can so understand how easy it is to let the OP become our 'lifeblood'..esp when your spouse refuses to forgive or meet any of your needs...man, it's like being given a dose of oxygen, just to feel some of those emotional needs being met (even if it's only a phone call)...i guess i really don't have any advice for you because i don't understand why you would allow yourself to live in a miserable situation..OW or no OW, everyone deserves to be in a relationship where they feel loved...good luck to you...

btw, i will agree with what i know everyone will tell you....no more contact with the OW, whether you stay in your marriage or not, you have to do this on your own...true and lasting peace will come from inside of you, not in a phone call to the OW...

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: dreamcatcher ]</small>

TMD,

I feel for you. I really do.

That said...

The lexicon here would say you are in the fog still, re OW. It serves nothing for me to split hairs over whether its fog or love; the fact is you are having an extreme reaction to it.

Ultimately, paired or unpaired, you are going to have to believe (deeply, emotionally, not just intellectually) that your well-being DOES NOT DEPEND ON having OW (or any other woman) in your life. Say it: "My well-being does not depend on..." over and over like a mantra. It's unromantic, but true.

I'm offering this not only because I feel for you (as a former WS) but to tell you that I am proof that a person can not only live without the OP but can also be the one to say to the OP, "We have to stop this." (that is, stop all contact.)

If your aim is to remain with, and increase the bond you have with, your wife, OW has to go. If your aim is to be with OW, your first task is still to find your way to emotional autonomy. You cannot pair successfully without it. Without it you have weird compulsions and dependencies that will not weather the storms of life and a (hopefully) growing partner.

The first step is to go through the painful, but absolutely necessary, complete and total separation from OW. It sucks. It's hard. But you can do it, and you have to. If I could do it, anyone can.

Good luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong>tmd...
my first question is what do you want from your wife...

what do you want???????????
</strong>
I want to have a clue that she will have me.
<strong>
what do you expect from her....
</strong>
I went into my "trying" with no expectations.
the verbalizations of her position as I shared them shut me down. Despair, as A_Grace put it, is a good word. Not from the sole perspective of loosing my W or M but from the perspective of loosing everything including me.
<strong>

what do you expect????????????????????
</strong>
It's like I told my counselor... picture me holding 2 buckets... in my right hand is my "feelings for my wife" my left for the OW. I told the counselor the OW bucket is full... the W bucket empty... but I'm trying if for no other outcome... then to try for the hope that trying will start a slow drip of emotion inside of me for my W.

I was totally into the thought of pursuing that with no expectations... and understood that it would take time. Then she hit me with those comments I posted on the thread opener.

Moderately deflating.
<strong>

also am I correct that niether of you have committed to repairing the relationship..
you moved back based on financial issues..

</strong>
I have written to her and told her I'm trying to put her first. I spent the letter talking about being there and making it work. I talked about us. Her reply... Put S first. One sentence. I was trying to get her to a place where we might commit to rebuilding and she replies in a manner I did not expect.

You may see it differently... But I saw ME trying to extend the olive branch and HER brushing the branch aside and diverting me.

So the short answer is you are correct.

<strong>

you havent' verbalized any committment..
she hasn't verbalized any committment...

what do you expect from her???????
</strong>
Nothing Ark. It's what I didn't expect that threw me. She told me again last night that when she said I could go find someone else to help me get through this... she didn't mean the OW... I look at her when she says this and I see NO emotion on her face... (her drugs must be really good). I said... who do you have in mind? It was rhetorical... she knew this. absurd!
<strong>

what do you want from her??????????
</strong>
Now? Nothing. I want nothing. Even when I started, the bucket was empty. I did it even outside my counselors advice because I thought it was the right thing to do. I'm emotionally vacant when it comes to her. It's bad ARK. I still do think it's the right thing. But I'm still in the same emotional place... actually a bit further now with the rebuffs.

-TMD
<strong>

ark</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>TMD~~~

I am only going to put you in my prayers.

I'll pray for your personal recovery and wellness .... whatever that turns out to be.

I'll pray for your wife and son and their hurting hearts as well.

In God's hands.

Pep (I accept your feelings about me TMD .... and it's OK)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank You Pep. I wouldn't ask for your input if I didn't value it. Sometimes I'm not good at expressing my gratitude... and sometimes... hearing the truth... hurts. And that's OK too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I've read a lot of your posts to others on this site... your value here is remarkable.

God Bless,

-TMD

Gee, infidelity is just a barrel of laughs, isn't it? It's just a big joke, or an exciting little adventure, like in the movies and on tv shows. Nobody really gets hurt. Oh, sure, if the guy gets caught he'll be in the doghouse for a few days, but nobody ever REALLY ever gets hurt, do they?

You sound like you want your wife to be begging and pleading for you to come back, and want her to go out and fight the OW for you, and are hurt and miserable at finding out that your wife is not going to do this.

The truth is, why should your wife do this? Are you worth fighting for?

You proved to your wife that you are a liar and a cheat who will kick her to the curb the minute you find a fresh new piece of @$$. Why should she fight for a man like that?

What's needed here is for YOU to fight for your WIFE. Pull your britches up, get up off the floor, forget about the OW who so happily helped you destroy your marriage and start fighting for YOUR wife and YOUR marriage.

It's not your wife's job to clean this mess up. She didn't get to have any say about whether she wanted to be in the middle of something like this. You and OW decided that for her. You are the one who has to clean it up.

If you're lucky, your wife will, eventually, be willing to help you with the clean-up. But don't expect her to be the one to start. She's waiting to see what her husband is going to do about the mess he made. And if all he's going to do is pine away for his girlfriend, why in the world should she hang around for that?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by terminator:
<strong>TMD,

It's hard. But you can do it, and you have to. If I could do it, anyone can.

Good luck.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well - the OW eh? It amazing the clarity of the face I see in my mind while reading your post.

The OW has said those words to me just as you described... she has initiated NC no less than 6 times. I did it the 7th... Mine lasted longest... but that's moot. Yeah.... It's hard... ha!

<strong>
Without it you have weird compulsions and dependencies...
</strong>
could you clarify this?

And... Thanks for posting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-TMD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>PS

I forgot to add:

I will pray for OW and her H ... and the full recovery of a wonderful marriage and partnership.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

TMD...this is like the third or fourth time you've posted something your wife has said that blows you away...while a lot of us sit around going...

yeah...DUH!! sounds pretty normal to me...
sounds exactly like what a BS would say....

and yet you appear dumbfounded....
are you clear on the affect your actions had..
are you clear that her misconception and perceived truths about your affair hurt as much as the truth...
are aware that what she imagines existed and still exists cuts in to every waking moment??

your wife says to you....

Huh?" so she further clarifies that it would be fine with her if I found another

TMD!!!!! 2x4 moment that's your cue to address those REAL fears and concerns...that's her plea for you to fight for HER!!!!!!!!

Any woman can see through that statement...your next line is...

I'M HERE BECAUSE I WANT TO WORK THIS OUT WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOT WITH ANY OTHER PERSON!!!!!!
YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and you blow you line with the typical
HUH???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and then to really mess things up you follow up with..

I said... who do you have in mind? It was rhetorical... she knew this. absurd!

TMD put your head on your monitor...
right <<<<<<<<<<<<HERE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
cause I'm about ready to bonk you on your head with over that reply....

she answers your letter to put son first...
GOOD!!! start there...talk her about what your son deserves from both parents...
you let everything drop and lay around...

where's your passion TMD??
BS need to see and hear the passion...

I for one am shocked you are even calling yourself in recovery let alone her....don't get me wrong ...I think you can and should be in recovery...but I can't believe you call your own efforts thus far real attempts at recovery...
AND
as much as your firt initial got you hot water post...(remember that one... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) as much as you focused on the other woman...

you know what I remember clearly from your first post...
Is the disbelief you had that your wife isn't fighting you...

8tloser is way different from you tmd...you are much farther along in your insight of what is really of value...and though he scares you...because you can see parts of you in him...there are many differences....

have you ever apoligized to your wife...
and not the apology you think you should give.
or the one you think she wants..\
but do you know what about your actions have cut her to the core...not the ones you think cut her...

do you know her pain.........
has she ever told you
showed you....

I know you are floundering..
I know you hurt...
I am sorry for that ....

and fess up what did you and the OW talk about...

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by psycho_b:
<strong>Gee, infidelity is just a barrel of laughs, isn't it? It's just a big joke, or an exciting little adventure, like in the movies and on tv shows. Nobody really gets hurt. Oh, sure, if the guy gets caught he'll be in the doghouse for a few days, but nobody ever REALLY ever gets hurt, do they?

</strong>
First of all... I've read your most recent thread. Thanks for coming here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> My heart actually went out to you, for what it's worth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

To the point... No I've not been laughing.. I willingly went to the dog house and frankly... part of me still wants to be there. (physically) Being home is much much harder.
<strong>

You sound like you want your wife to be begging and pleading for you to come back, and want her to go out and fight the OW for you, and are hurt and miserable at finding out that your wife is not going to do this.
</strong> hmmn... that would be thrilling I think. If my wife reached out to me, I would probably turn into a blob on the floor.

I'm NOT hurt and miserable that she hasn't done the things you've mentioned. I had no expectations in that regard. It was the pushback I wasn't ready for. I didn't ask her for anything more than to be aware that I'm trying... I required nothing of her in my note to her. It was informative. The pushback was... abrupt and concise.
<strong>

The truth is, why should your wife do this? </strong>
Only she can answer that.
<strong>

Are you worth fighting for?
</strong>
I don't believe so. Not one bit.
<strong>

You proved to your wife that you are a liar and a cheat who will kick her to the curb the minute you find a fresh new piece of @$$. Why should she fight for a man like that?

</strong>
Well... that characterization isn't entirely acurate... but I'll give you up the word 'CURB'.

and.. again... she'd have to answer that. I have no defense.
<strong>

What's needed here is for YOU to fight for your WIFE. Pull your britches up, get up off the floor, forget about the OW who so happily helped you destroy your marriage and start fighting for YOUR wife and YOUR marriage.

</strong> I apologize in advance for this one...

My - what brilliance! OK! I'm on it! Allow me to win one for the gipper while I'm at it!
<strong>

It's not your wife's job to clean this mess up. She didn't get to have any say about whether she wanted to be in the middle of something like this. You and OW decided that for her. You are the one who has to clean it up.

</strong> Agreed. <strong>

If you're lucky, your wife will, eventually, be willing to help you with the clean-up. But don't expect her to be the one to start. She's waiting to see what her husband is going to do about the mess he made. And if all he's going to do is pine away for his girlfriend, why in the world should she hang around for that?

</strong> Well put. What you don't get here is that I'm not your husband. He came home... albeit grudingly instead of going to the corp. b-day party... what did you do? You rewarded him.

When I read that on your thread, I was happy for him... even if he might not have appreciated it. That's the glimmer I was looking for.

I'm not expecting her to rip her clothes off and say "come and get me you love hunk"... I was just waiting, with no discernable timeline, for a glimmer... and instead got.. "go find someone else."

Nice.

-TMD

[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Do you really not hear the extreme, hurt and pain in your wife's responses to you? It simply amazes me! Of course she is acting defensively, perhaps not in the most mature manner but she has a lot of growing to do in the aftermath of the hell you have put and are putting her through. Just as you are needing patience to get over your OW don't you think she needs your patience to heal her heart? Give her the forgiveness you expect from her. SOMEBODY has to start it. And btw, mooning over your OW and all your anxiety over losing her sure doesn't give your W a whole lot of reassurance at a time when she quite possibly is at her lowest. You have hurt her deeply. No, she is not acting at her best, but neither are you! Start acting like the mature adult you want to be. Act as if you are strong, care about her and truly want your M. Somewhere along the way you might start to actually believe and feel it and low and behold she might too!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong>TMD...this is like the third or fourth time you've posted something your wife has said that blows you away...while a lot of us sit around going...

yeah...DUH!! sounds pretty normal to me...
sounds exactly like what a BS would say....

and yet you appear dumbfounded....
are you clear on the affect your actions had..
are you clear that her misconception and perceived truths about your affair hurt as much as the truth...
</strong>
No and yes. weird question... but I think I get it.
<strong>

are aware that what she imagines existed and still exists cuts in to every waking moment??
</strong>
her drugs must be REALLY good
<strong>
your wife says to you....

Huh?" so she further clarifies that it would be fine with her if I found another

TMD!!!!! 2x4 moment that's your cue to address those REAL fears and concerns...that's her plea for you to fight for HER!!!!!!!!

Any woman can see through that statement...your next line is...

I'M HERE BECAUSE I WANT TO WORK THIS OUT WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOT WITH ANY OTHER PERSON!!!!!!
YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and you blow you line with the typical
HUH???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and then to really mess things up you follow up with..

I said... who do you have in mind? It was rhetorical... she knew this. absurd!

TMD put your head on your monitor...
right <<<<<<<<<<<<HERE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
cause I'm about ready to bonk you on your head with over that reply....

</strong> And I thought the OW's husband was dense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <strong>

she answers your letter to put son first...
GOOD!!! start there...talk her about what your son deserves from both parents...
you let everything drop and lay around...

</strong> Nope... I'm there for him. I'm agreeing with W about him and spending time and being a Reading, Kissing, Hugging him... roughhousing... having tickle fights... great stuff... Dad .. and making sure he sees us all together out to dinner together... going to movies together...

This is all lost somehow on the W. She just tells me after weeks of this as I described it that I don't care about him. THAT pisses me off. I mean really... how 'bout a microscopic f*g crumb for God's sake.<strong>

where's your passion TMD??
BS need to see and hear the passion...

</strong> well ARK... truth be told... the well is a bit dry on that count... go back up and read about the buckets.
<strong>

I for one am shocked you are even calling yourself in recovery let alone her....don't get me wrong ...I think you can and should be in recovery...but I can't believe you call your own efforts thus far real attempts at recovery...
AND
as much as your firt initial got you hot water post...(remember that one... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) as much as you focused on the other woman...

you know what I remember clearly from your first post...
Is the disbelief you had that your wife isn't fighting you...

</strong>
Not in recovery.... just trying to move there... I have no illusions in that regard.

I'm still pretty damned focused on the OW. I try not to go there too much because it's counterproductive here.
<strong>

8tloser is way different from you tmd...you are much farther along in your insight of what is really of value...and though he scares you...because you can see parts of you in him...there are many differences....

</strong> I know that... And thank you ARK. <strong>

have you ever apoligized to your wife...
and not the apology you think you should give.
or the one you think she wants..\

</strong> i guess it's time for another 2x4... you lost me on that one... <strong>

but do you know what about your actions have cut her to the core...not the ones you think cut her...

do you know her pain.........
has she ever told you
showed you....
</strong>
Yes she has and I can only guess at her pain as compared to my own. I suppose the right answer is NO.
<strong>

I know you are floundering..
I know you hurt...
I am sorry for that ....

and fess up what did you and the OW talk about...

</strong>
You want that too? So does the W. eeesh... A 7 hour recap...

-Love
-God
-Sex
-Spouses
-Children - this one went long
-The A
-Life together
-Life apart
-Music
-Work - this went long too

The conversations were engaging.... not tearful... overall... very relaxing.

There... does that work for ya?

-TMD

p.s. I'm off to see the counselor.

ARK[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Anne6263:
<strong>Do you really not hear the extreme, hurt and pain in your wife's responses to you? It simply amazes me! Of course she is acting defensively, perhaps not in the most mature manner but she has a lot of growing to do in the aftermath of the hell you have put and are putting her through. Just as you are needing patience to get over your OW don't you think she needs your patience to heal her heart? Give her the forgiveness you expect from her. SOMEBODY has to start it. And btw, mooning over your OW and all your anxiety over losing her sure doesn't give your W a whole lot of reassurance at a time when she quite possibly is at her lowest. You have hurt her deeply. No, she is not acting at her best, but neither are you! Start acting like the mature adult you want to be. Act as if you are strong, care about her and truly want your M. Somewhere along the way you might start to actually believe and feel it and low and behold she might too!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep... THAT'S what I'm shooting for... Can't hide the physiological stuff. Wish I could.

-TMD

TMD--

Listen, you've had a lot of very, very valid stuff said to you. I just want to add something. My H was where you are a couple of years ago. To the point of being unable to eat or sleep, having chest pains that had the docs running EKGs and stress tests on him...all that jazz. It took him a while to get thru all that (for a while he bumped into her occasionally at work, b4 she left and that extended the process I think), but with some help from a good counselor, he did get thru it. We did a fair bit of work, and ended up with a better marriage & are both happy.

I just wanted to let you know that your symptoms are at all unheard of, and that with continued no contact, they should go away. I do hope you and your W can get thru this hard period and make it to the healing.

Kathi

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If your aim is to remain with, and increase the bond you have with, your wife, OW has to go. If your aim is to be with OW, your first task is still to find your way to emotional autonomy. You cannot pair successfully without it. Without it you have weird compulsions and dependencies that will not weather the storms of life and a (hopefully) growing partner. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, about the compulsions and dependencies...what I mean is, without being whole emotionally, you are acting on things maybe unseen, unknown in yourself. Some say, and I agree, that these attractions to people have to do with healing childhood wounds. You have to identify the chord OW strikes with you...it's probably something pretty deep.

Already because of lack of her you are losing weight, having this awful stress reaction. If it is all due to lack of her, if you cannot live and function without her, then you are not emotionally whole. It is not a question, in other words, of who you should choose (W or OW).

For me, the process came to a point of asking myself, "what do you believe?" and "who do you love"? I have no qualms now about being utterly dependent on God. In the affair and in other areas of my life, I had come to the end of myself. I had made choices and decisions driven by compulsion. The level of dependence I had on X-MM for feelings of well-being was unhealthy. As my recognition of it grew, and I grew in other ways, it became less so, and finally not dependence at all. (Several iterations of breaking up and getting back together advanced this process.)

By the time I ended the relationship, I was resigned to life without him, totally without him. It hurt, still does, to be without him. I looked at that list of things you and OW talked about and remembered how that was (when I could get him to talk, it was great). And the feeling of seeing him walk into the room...

But. I am emotionally whole. Finally I see the relationship for what it was (it had to end), and, I think, see him for who he is (a person searching and making mistakes like any other), and still appreciate that and the time I had with him, and the isolated fact that we were good together, for whatever that's worth.