I've removed this letter. You are right Mortarman, Mimi, Redhat, et al. It really wasn't a PBL at all.

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

AMM,

Okay...here goes. Remember, I am not beating up on you. please take this as help.

What you wrote is still not a Plan B letter. It is a love letter, a NC letter. There is no path back.

Have you read SAA? In it, Harley goes into the PBL and gives an example. That letter is very scientific. Remember, most WSs are reading from the WS script. Thus, the antidote for it is almost always the same. That letter is constructed to answer several questions in the WS' mind. Leaving any of those parts out, will leave their path back incomplete. Now, it is okay to add some stuff (like the memories you put above). But you cannot leave out the basics.

For you, I am including my Plan B letter here. You can match it against what the Harley's prescribe and see it has everything that they say is needed, as well as a few personal touches.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife,

This is a difficult letter for me to write…one that I have been mentally working on for days now. I have written this letter with the true love that only a husband can have for a wife. Please read every word I have written…it is from the heart.

I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the loss of our marriage. I neglected your needs and failed to give you what you needed many times. I'm sure this helped create a voice in our marriage that allowed your affair to happen. But believe me, whenever you hurt, so do I. Although I have always loved you with my heart and soul, I made you feel that everything was more important to me than you. It NEVER was the case, but that is how I made you feel, and for that Mrs. Mortarman, I am so very sorry. I have said this before, and I want to say it again: I want to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I feel I have been learning ways to again be the type of man I hope you would be proud to call your husband, as I have so many times felt much pride in calling you my wife. I so want to put the past behind us, and build a better life together…for us and our family.

While I accept responsibility for my part in the fall of our marriage, I will no longer accept responsibility for your part. I think you need to take this time to face your demons, as I have faced mine, and figure out what you want. I can't control what you do, nor will I try to change you anymore. I have realized that I can't do that and I accept that. I'm sorry if I hurt you because of it. I realize I have to take care of me now. I can only control me and change myself. Only you can control and change you, if you choose to.

The past 10 months have been difficult for me…the most emotionally traumatic in my life. We seemed to start recovery, only to slip and fall again. I am still feeling the hurt and pain when I don't know where you are or who you are with. We have somehow misplaced our foundation of trust and respect, love and friendship.

The direction that I must go now is not one of choice, but of necessity. In the past I endured hurt and pain. I now see it only drains my love for you. Added to this fact, the choices you have made since you started this affair continue to be poor ones, and have adversely affected all of us. Our children are now suffering emotionally, as well as financially, because of these choices. Until you can truthfully and honestly return home and work with me on rebuilding our marriage, I will be having no communication with you (except regarding the family) and I will avoid seeing you. This is not to punish you…it is to protect my feelings for you and our chances at reconciliation. If we continue as we are now, there will be nothing left of this incredible love I have for you. And I cannot bear to think that I would ever not love you.

Since it is you that wants to leave, I ask that you please respect my decision to separate in this way. If you need to contact me, please do so through email (xxxxxx@xxxx.com) or leave a message at (###) ###-####. Any emergency involving the kids, or yourself, you can of course contact me directly and immediately.

Since last January, I have been trying to give you hope for our marriage by learning how to be a better husband to you. Mrs. Mortarman, as you know, I am still willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that we have made in the past and make our marriage together stronger and closer than we ever thought possible. It simply cannot happen until your relationship with OM ends. I want us to work together, and create our new marriage together. God wants this also. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get past it. It is fixable. God made you in your mother’s womb for me, just as I was made for you. With God's help, our true healing can begin. God has promised us this marriage and promised us reconciliation. You only have to have faith and to give Him a chance. You asked several weeks ago for a miracle or sign from Him. It WILL come, but will require you stepping forward on faith first. Look inside yourself and find the strength we will need to do this.

I understand how difficult this all is for you. I will make every effort to provide you with comfort and support, should you want to try to save our marriage. With a competent counselor and a little time, I am sure that we will be able to find what we are looking for and what has been missing.

I do not want this divorce. I want to be your husband, in every sense of the word. I want to hold you again, talk with you, laugh with you and even cry with you. I want us to continue to share in the joy that we have had in raising those three awesome kids. I want to grow old with you. As much as I want all of this, you have made it clear that you don’t want these things, and as long as you feel this way, I cannot be a part of your life…it is simply too painful. As always, I will continue to be the best father I can be to our three children and do whatever is necessary to insure their happiness through all of this.

You are the only person I have allowed myself to love so deeply. I loved you more than life itself when God brought us together, and I continue to do so as I write this. Perhaps even more! I have spent my whole life loving you, Mrs. Mortarman. The first 29 years I spent looking for you and the last almost 10 years, I have loved you as your husband. We may have had our problems, but we also created 8 years of history. Eight years of love, of family life, of memories. Good memories. What is needed now is for you to recognize that, to recognize that we can make this a new marriage, one with all of the promise of the past, as well as a future free from the problems you and I have created. One where we are a family again, both for you and I, and for our children. And once we do that, our love will come back again, stronger than we have ever known or thought possible.

I cannot imagine a life without you, without hearing your voice, without being there for you when you need me, without our family. But I know that for my love for you to survive and have a possibility to be there when you call me and say that you want to come home, then I must protect that love at all costs.

Mrs. Mortarman, I do not know what the future holds for us…that is in God’s hands. I know that I want to grow old with you. When I said “I DO,” I made a promise in front of God, you, our families and friends for life. Through better or worse.

Our marriage, our life, our family is now in God’s hands. I will love you always!

Love,
Your husband and the ONLY man truly in love with you,
Mortarman

OM…I love Mrs. Mortarman with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for her to give me that chance. Her three children and I wait for her return home, where she belongs.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Work on yours and post the next draft.

In His arms.

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Mortarman, Yes, I've read SAA -- but loaned it to a friend in similar straits.

I'll read your letter more carefully -- but MM, I just can't swear undying love to WH, in this case. I have moved on. I'm throwing out a thread, rather than a rope. My D said last night she would rather move out than have him come back -- this would take a lot of work.

I really can't take much blame for the breakdown of this M. He brought a huge amount of personal baggage into this M, as he admitted at the end. That's what drove me nuts during recovery -- there was little for me to work on. It was mostly his stuff.

AMM,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One thought: one possible reply to this is the "appropriateness" of moving his stuff out. That would force contact. It would be dumb for him to propose this, because I suspect he will be homeless soon. But it might be his emotionally clumsy way of renewing contact. How do I parry?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are going to hear this a lot while you are in Plan B...so listen up to what I type next. You, my dear, are in Plan B. There is NO CONTACT! That is why your PBL must spell all of this out, otherwise he will not know the groundrules and he will try stuff like this. Sure, he wants to try this. And that is a good sign. But you give into it, and he will take his piece of cake...and still be with OW. You have to trust this stuff, AMM. Everyone on here wants to think that their WS is so much different, that they are worse off and nothing will work. But just ask those, like myself, that came out the otherside of Plan B with their marriages. What we thought just wasnt the case.

So, he leaves a message wanting the furniture of his. Dont respond. It has been there for awhile...there is no rush. Eventually, you could allow him to come get it without you present (have a relative let him in and watch him while he is there).

Do this Plan B stuff right...or suffer longer like Mimi and I did. It wasnt until our second or third attempt that either of us got it right...and then Plan B could do its work.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Two thought: He did hold me, briefly, in his arms on Saturday. I wonder if I should work in reference to this. It would be one way of keeping him to showing this to the odious OW!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, no, no! You are in Plan B and there is to be NO hugging or any other contact. AMM...he KNOWS you...he KNOWS how you feel. He KNOWS what it is like with you. But, right now...in the fog...any of those feelings he would get from a hug or anything else will just be a large piece of chocolate cake.

Please, please...do not enable him. This is an addiction, just like it would be for alcohol or cocaine. So treat it as such. Plan B is to protect yourself and family from his addiction. And it is to let him suffer completely in his choices. In any addiction, THEY MUST REACH BOTTOM BEFORE THEY ARE READY FOR HELP! If you enable him, it just means it will be longer before he reaches bottom.

Hang tough. I advise you to go and read the threads over the last two years for me, TM94, Mimi, and others. Watch the progression. Look at our mistakes. And then commit yourself to staying the course.

You have a plan...it is spelled out in Plan B. Your WH has NO plan. So, you must understand that he is going to flop around like a fish out of water. So, give him a plan...the Plan B letter. Then, as he realizes he has no other plan and his life is spinning out of control...he will grab onto that.

And if he doesnt, you'll be ready for Plan D.

In His arms.

AMM,

I understand your situation is different than mine. But the main points are the same. There are basics to the PBL.

*No contact with OW
*That until then, there will be no contact with you
*That there is still love for him, although his choices now jeopardize that

Others will come on here and help also. But, you say there is a thread. Believe me, when I sent the PBL, I truly believed that I was headed for divorce and this was just a thread also.

But I do know one thing, AMM. You do still love your husband. No one makes this much effort, gets angry or cries, over something that they dont care about. So, while you say you are done, I am not sure that is true. Maybe I am wrong...and if I am, then go see your attorney and file for divorce so you can get on with your life.

But if I'm right, then write the letter as approprite to your situation...and then back away. Within a few weeks, you will know what to do then.

In His arms.

I refuse to file for D. That is H's way -- to force other people to make decisions for him, so that he feels he is presented with a fait accompli.

I feel he is violating his own conscience and standards. I will not help.

I will not play that game.

And you shouldnt. I felt EXACTLY the same way. But, I eventually reached the point where I was ready to move on...and that coincided with Plan B. Six weeks later, she was on my doorstep.

In His arms.

I agree with MM about you sounding as if you still love your WH. It seems like you are afraid to acknowledge your love for him.

The PBL was crucial in my situation. My WH needed a road map on how to get back with me. I did not think he liked letters either. However, as I have often said, he would quote my PBL. He referred back to it.

He especially liked the phrases, like in MM's letter, where I put "The only woman who really loves you". I don't have copies but I also put stuff like "You are my one true love", "No matter what happens I will never love another person just like I have loved you", etc.

A.M.Martin,

Plan B is a love letter ... it gave last chance before closure. You are asking for H to come back not WH !. Telling him that the past was lovely and the future could be even better ... only if he is willing.

-rh-

Thanks, all. I just don't think I believe that anymore. Maybe it's too late. My Love Bank is busted.

Let me edit this a little: our whole marriage was clouded by his personal problems. Yes, I loved him, very passionately -- but I lived in almost constant anxiety that his sexual sloppiness would result in a random and pointless A. It has. This was the single biggest issue of our marriage.

The pornography, when that problem surfaced, made my life a hell.

His depression and rages -- often at inanimate objects -- made family life difficult for everyone.

The idea of him touching me after touching the odious OW leaves me utterly cold. If that's the kind of woman he likes...well, the psychiatric clinics around the world are filled with them. I really feel he needs to exhaust the OW experience. The idea of him mourning Sad Sack while pursuing recovery with me is degrading. The fact that she is about to drop him -- while he still really wants this unpleasant woman -- leaves the A open-ended, to my mind.

When I drafted this letter, mostly I was thinking about closure. Yes, Mimi, the idea of him coming back is a very mixed bag for me. Part of me wants him back, and a very strong, perhaps stronger, part of me wants to push him to kill what's left of his conscience and file for a D. He's dug his own grave.

We attract our lives by what we are. Maybe he deserves OW.

If you don't think this letter serves the purpose of a PBL, then maybe I should just drop it. I just can't say, in good conscience, anything stronger. He was the love of my life -- with the emphasis on "was." I can't promise him a warm, forgiving heart and open bed, if he should decide he wants me. I can promise to try. That's all. It would be unfair to try to lure him with more.

In this letter, I'm keenly aware that, for the most part, it is only giving my blessing to what is already occurring -- i.e., no contact. I'm explaining to him why I will not seek more contact. I wanted to offer him a path back. But I just cannot offer more.

I'm sorry if I've wasted everyone's time.

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

Well, last night in some kind of fit, I removed the letter from the site and vowed never to come back to MB again.

After a good night's sleep and a cup of coffee, I want to reconsider.

Mortarman et al., I truly appreciate and value your efforts and time, and I wanted to thank you all, truly, from the bottom of my heart.

Yesterday, I came to realize how much feeling I have lost for my H -- painful, because no one will ever know how deeply I loved him. To watch this die is terrible.

But I realized yesterday I was in the situation of someone who is told $50 more and her car will be like new, but you suddenly realize you've spent four times what the car was appraised at. And the car will have a new problem, with unknown cost, next month.

I don't want a D, but clearly, if PBL is the way to go, I just don't have the feeling left to write another love letter to this man. I'm not going to lie to him about my feelings, and pretend to misleading emotions. That seems a wrong way to go. So I'm kind of in no man's land. I do love him -- but not enough anymore to grovel or selflessly plead my love while he's banging another woman. Knowing his personal baggage, and his disabilities (including sexual), I'm hesitant to sign on for another hitch. And I'm not sure I have a big enough heart to absorb all of his terrible behavior. Yet I do love him too much for a D, and I am against D in principle, anyway.

I don't know where to go with all this. I feel a little like a man who has swum 3/4 of the way across a lake, decides he can't make it, then turns to go back.

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

AMM,

I, like many others here, KNOW where you are at. If you go back to my thread from December and January, you can see that I felt my bank was busted too. But I found out later, when she returned, that it wasnt...it was just hidden.

Second thing...you dont have to accept him back with all of the problems. That is why in the PBL, there has to be a part about counseling and getting help for the problems.

Now, the BIG reason I wrote here. Read this passage you just wrote...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want a D, but clearly, if PBL is the way to go, I just don't have the feeling left to write another love letter to this man. I'm not going to lie to him about my feelings, and pretend to misleading emotions. That seems a wrong way to go. So I'm kind of in no man's land. I do love him -- but not enough anymore to grovel or selflessly plead my love while he's banging another woman. Knowing his personal baggage, and his disabilities (including sexual), I'm hesitant to sign on for another hitch. And I'm not sure I have a big enough heart to absorb all of his terrible behavior. Yet I do love him too much for a D, and I am against D in principle, anyway.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AMM...with a few minor modifications, THIS IS A PLAN B LETTER!!! And you dont have to fake it, or pretend to offer what you dont have. I told you that you had to write your PBL for YOUR situation. Well...there it is! If we can get you to clean it up a little, then it will be perfect for your situation AND you will have been true to yourself and not groveled or anything else (a Plan B letter is never about groveling...it is stating facts).

You have written in this passage that you are losing your love for him and no longer have the energy to continue like this. But, you also say that you still love him, that you always loved him, even with his problems.

Go read my PBL. Didnt I say the same things? Just in a different way, that was consistent with MY situation? Look at what you have written, look at the textbook PBL, look at other PBLs on here...and then modify yours a little more and post it here.

In your effort to quit, I think you inadvertently stumbled into the truth here. Speak the truth (PBL), go dark...and get on with your life. And then, like I said before, we will see where he ends up.

Oh, and by the way...you have swam 3/4 of the way. So, DONT TURN BACK! Finish this race. At the end, whether he is there or not, you will have done all you could for YOU and your marriage. And you will be ready for your new marriage...to him or someone new.

In His arms.

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

MM -- Tried searching for your posts -- wouldn't let me go earlier than last spring. How do I do it?

Here is the post from last January, 6 weeks or so into Plan B.

January 2003

I'll try to get the threads leading upto the start of Plan B.

In His arms.

Here is November and December, as I tried to institute Plan B. It wasnt until Dec 17th that I completely got my act straight.

November 2002

December 2002

In His arms.

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

These last two links are dead, though I'll try again.

AM,
Reading your thread, I picked up on some things.

1) Differing advice is confusing.

Remember one thing about posters, most mean well and most offer advice for what they think is the best choice and often it's what worked for them or what they wished they had done. MM had good luck with Plan B. I didn't like Plan B, a long Plan A suited me, ( and it took 18 months to get in the good 6 months <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . )

We might not agree in our advice, but even so there will be some valid points that may work for you in the differing opinions.

2) This is your life.

If you want to send a letter, and that was the letter you wanted to send, that's ok.

Since you're likely to see your H around town, if you want to have a friendly, civil relationship, that's ok.

If you want closure rather than Plan B. That's ok.

I'm a long-term MBer and believe in it, but there were times I did what I could, rather than what was true MB. I think if I had done Plan B at 6-7 mo after our first separation (actually the time of our 3rd sep), we'd be divorced and my H might have been married to her. That's what hindsight/second guessing tells me.

3) Problems from before the A, remain problems unless they too are addressed.

4) Recovery is hard work and takes both partners.

One partner can do a lot of the work so reconciliation is possible, but if both don't commit and be recovery partners at some point, recovery is halting and painful. If you don't think you'll get over his having had this relationship and his touching her...your attitude and mindset is a huge factor. I think most BSs have some revulsion, disgust, or at the very least disappointment, but if they want to get over it, most can. Resolving hauntings, triggers, questions is work. And, if you don't want to do it, that's ok.

If this level of betrayal is the deal-breaker for you, then it is. That may be your decison now, or you can wait a couple more months, let some healing take place, watch what your H does with his life and see if your decision changes.

A.M. - I have no advice to offer but I want you to know that I wish you all the best no matter what road you'll take. I have the same ambivalent feelings of love, hate, indifference and rejection as you have - I want to hurt him as he hurt me but I know it will do me no good. It's tough but we'll survive with or without our WH's.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Take care!

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Danish ]</small>

AMM:

I agree with Lor's post 2 you. I read your letter yes2rday, but didn't post because my sitch is pretty different from yours. I ac2ally liked your letter, though I could certainly see what MM and others were talking about regarding it not outlining a path back 2 the M. It might come across as sarcastic 2 him.

But, also like Lor says, if you're done, then baby you're done!

My W never left me, and there were a lot of times in the past 20+ months since D-day that I wanted 2 just give up. Most of the time now, I don't think I want 2, but there are down moments still, even though we're in recovery. I never did plan B, and also like Lor, 2k 19 months 2 do 6 months of plan A that was worth a darn, but it did work. Mainly, it worked for ME. I'm better than I was. I made myself in2 the kind of man I always believed I should be. I musta just expected others 2 see it, but they didn't. But that just meant more homework for me!

-kid 2long