Some one in EN forum said you all are good with knowing how to respond to WS..the right way to do things....

here's my post from the other forum:

Well I blew it big time yesterday. This may just be the end of it.

And I'm not really sure that I care or not.

Yesterday was ex pastor's birthday. His whore hangs out with ex pastor. I have asked him repeatedly not to call him or go over there unless I'm there. It makes me extremely uncomfortable.

His brother calls while they are on the job, wishes him happy birthday, hands phone to H.

Later in the day I happen to call, I remembered it was his birthday, so I asked "did you call him"..."oh yeah I forgot to tell you"

I lost it.....screaming, crying, cussing, carrying on. I almost walked out.

I just can not live with this selfish SOB anymore. I can't take his "don't care" attitude about everything.

He just does what ever the f*** he feels like and NEVER even takes my feelings into consideration.

Ok so I'm a basket case all day yesterday. when he finally comes home at 8:30p we go to the store. While we are out he says "I know you're upset still but I really need a break and don't want to discuss this tonight"

I'm dying inside, so depressed I couldn't sleep last night. This just isn't working, and I'm so tired of all the drama and crap I need out of here.

What the hell would it have hurt him to discuss SOMETHING with me. Just tell me you love me and it'll be ok. That's what he said the day before...why can't he reach out to me when I'm hurting?

He says he does stuff to instill trust, I'm telling him no you do things you think should instill trust. When I tell you that a,b,c, will instill trust then you go do d,e,f, it does not instill trust PERIOD.

He is going to do it his way and it doesn't matter how I feel.

I'm so sick of this........I'm so through with it all.

I know there is a lot of missing info...if you have a zillion questions, let me know.

He just got home and I just don't know what to say to him anymore. I know he wants to talk, but I really don't (theres a switch). I just want to be left alone.

margue,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> His brother calls while they are on the job, wishes him happy birthday, hands phone to H.

Later in the day I happen to call, I remembered it was his birthday, so I asked "did you call him"..."oh yeah I forgot to tell you"

I lost it.....screaming, crying, cussing, carrying on. I almost walked out.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did this phone call entail more than just a Happy Bday to the pastor? If not, then I'm not sure what it is that you are upset about here. Did he speak with the OW or are you just assuming that he did?

Is the pastor off limits to him because he associates with the OW? I can see how this tempt him to break the NC agreement but it's a stretch to assume he spoke with the OW while wishing the pastor a HB. He did not even make the call, his brother did.

Regardless, it sounds like this is a deeper issue of overall trust rather than you being upset over a single incident.

What have the two of you been doing to regain the trust factor since the NC letter was delivered?

ba109

ba109,

thanx for the reply,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Regardless, it sounds like this is a deeper issue of overall trust rather than you being upset over a single incident. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The real issue was that he talked to him and didn't call me afterwards to let me know, he said he forgot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

Yes, pastor is off limits, he hangs out with OW all the time, she answers his home and cell phone. He even took her on vacation with him.

I was upset because he didn't tell me. He always conveniently leaves out details and it makes me nuts. No I don't trust him at all unless he's in front of my face.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What have the two of you been doing to regain the trust factor since the NC letter was delivered? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He seems to think he does alot, but I tell him that he's not and he just argues that I should trust him. Even though he's lied to me on every hand for almost 3 years about his affair.

Now all of a sudden if he says I should believe it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I tell him these are the things I need to begin to feel trust again, he doesn't do them. I ask him "do you want to rebuild trust" he says yes. So I wait again...nothing..he does what HE thinks rebuilds trust and meanwhile I'm still feeling that this thing is still going on even if he says it's not.

I was the one that encouraged margue to look to this area for some help. So, I am taking the liberty of bumping her up so that she isn't missed.

She needs some help on how to let her H know that when he associates with people that have a connection to the OW..it hurts her. She needs some tips on how to keep the DJs and Angry Outbursts away from the conversation.

Please don't let me down People...please please help her. Ya'll are a different animal over here altogether. You have a deeper understanding of the WS and the BS.

I am counting on you!

committed

margue,

If the pastor is off limits I would have to imagine that a whole circle of acquaintances of the OW are also off limits. If you live in a small community, that's next to impossible to enforce. He will be running into someone who hangs with OW on a daily basis.

I know it's extreme but have you thought of relocating? If you can't remove these other people from his life and temptation then how about if you remove yourselves from them?

I really don't think you can choose your H's friends. You can demand NC with the OW but surely you don't expect him to abandon his friends and pastor simply because they "know" the OW.

If OW is haunting you to that extreme then she is controlling your life and actions simply by her presence.

I'm sure there are folks here that have dealt with an OP in the work place or someplace similar where NC is complicated by having the same employer...or is your case, the same pastor.

Some have removed themselves from the OP by getting a new job, relocating, etc. Would you find it easier to regain your trust in him if the OW were completely removed from his life? If so, then maybe a move to a new community would be beneficial. Leave her behind and rebuild your marriage.

ba109

Thanx committed~~ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ba109,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you live in a small community</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No we don't live in a small community. We live in one city, she lives in another. We don't even attend that church anymore.

He doesn't have to be in that city for anything, except the occassional service call they may get. There is a 99% chance that he will never run into her unless he sees people from our old church.

I have asked to move, he doesn't want to leave his family down here. They all live in the city we do.

I expect him to tell me when he has contact with our old pastor. Because of the fact that she is there and checks the phone to try to get his new cell number. She's been caught by 3 different people checking out their cell phones looking for his new number.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Would you find it easier to regain your trust in him if the OW were completely removed from his life? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes but he doesn't see moving as an option. I would love to but it's not an option. So in the mean time I have to deal with the fact that he's lied and lied and lied for almost 3 years.

Right now we are barely speaking. He came in last night and ate, I sat on the computer, and he asked for some ice cream. I got it for him and went to bed.

It's awful. I just can't bring myself to talk to him about all of this one more time. I just don't have the energy. It's all so draining.

He won't call me again today, just like yesterday. I know he doesn't think he's done anything wrong.

Margue,
Have you been in any kind of counseling? This is the kind of situation that our counselor helped with--mediation, explanation, advice.

And it seemed like if my H heard something from our male counselor, even if it was the same thing I'd said a hundred times, H would really hear it. It was just me demanding one more thing, it was a concrete change recommended by the counselor.

Your main fear with the ex-pastor sounds like it is that the OW will get the cell number. What is your H's plan if she would contact him? I think that is the crux of the matter...not whether or not she gets the number, what he DOES.

This phone call, you say H's brother did the calling at work, so H didn't call, even though he talked. No doubt he should have told you without promting, but he did tell you when you asked.

Blowing up when he tells the truth doesn't encourage him to tell you anything.

He may well have the mind set that he'd rather avoid tell you something than have you upset <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Sure that's completely backwards, but...that's certainly how it worked out this time.

This is going to sound harsh, but BS's often bewail that the WS doesn't change their behavior, and at the same time the BS doesn't change their LBing behavior.

It takes 2 to make communication work and telling the truth is one thing, so is receiving information without screaming.

Lor,

Thanx for the reply,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Blowing up when he tells the truth doesn't encourage him to tell you anything </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, and when it happens I hate it...yes we have been to counseling a few times, but since he lost his job we have no insurance and can't afford it without it.

I blew up (not that it is excusable) after a very hard weekend...this other young girl at our new church reminds me so much of OW. She is always seeking out my H lately and trying to talk to him alone.

He says it's only happen a few times but I hear the same thing from him that I heard the first time....she means nothing, I didn't walk away because I didn't want to be rude, she means nothing...same crap I heard before.

I tell him this a week ago Sunday night, after he volunteers the info, he says "I told you because I know that others saw me talking to her and I didn't want you to hear it from them."

So I say "ok what are you saying, if no one was around you wouldn't tell me about it?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Any contact with this girl makes me nuts, please stay away from her" all of this was said very calmly. So the next Sunday afternoon we are taking a whole bunch of kids to the pizza place for lunch...I tell them all to get in the van, H is waiting..

She quickly, before anyone else is on the way, jumps in the van and is in this conversation with him when I open the door... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

To say that I was pissed would be putting it mildly..why didn't he just get out of the van FOR ME when she got in. I almost pulled her out by her hair and told her what I think of her.

Then OW's best friend visited our church on Sunday night. He never made one move to me, he knew that I was upset. Didn't bother to put his arm around me or show her ANYTHING. He could have made an effort to show her that everything was great between us.

Instead I'm just standing there like a lump <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I've asked him, when you are going to be alone, please volunteer the info, don't let me find out because all of a sudden I get a "feeling" and ask you and then find out you are...

He goes to pick up a part away from his brother, whom he works with now, and I just happen to get that feeling and ask "Are you alone" he says " yeah I went to pick up a part"...I'm so mad I could explode.

He keeps saying "how could I find time to have an affair, I'm always with brother working or wiht you"...which isn't true obviously...

So when this happened on Monday it was just the last straw.

I feel like he hides things from me and it makes me not trust him. It makes me crazy thinking this may still be going on...

He did call early and we talked...it never starts out good, but thankfully it ends up better. I just can't seem to get him to understand how it feels when he is not honest with me.

He said"Well I told you that I had a conversation with that girl" I said "Did it ever occur to you to get up and walk away??? Why do you need to be having conversations with her at all??" He says "Well she came up to me and it's been a really long time and I didn't want to be rude" I said, "oh I see the feelings of someone else are more important then your wife's? The feelings of another needy, blonde, blue eyed young lady?? thanx for making that clear to me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

margue,

IMHO, you are holding him to things that are beyond your control and beyond his.

You are seeing a potential OW in every blond haired blue-eyed young girl he comes in contact with. I think that you have reached the point where your mind is in overdrive and you are seeing threats that are not there. You are singling out the people at your church as threats because your other church is where your H took up with the OW. Not everyone that might speak to him wants him ..nor should it drive you to potential violence.

He goes to pick up a part away from his brother, whom he works with now, and I just happen to get that feeling and ask "Are you alone" he says " yeah I went to pick up a part"...I'm so mad I could explode.

Is his brother his babysitter? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Is he not allowed to be away from his brother?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Does he need to tell you before he leaves his babysitter? You asked...he told you. I can only imagine that you were upset because he didn't clear it with you first...or offer up the information before you asked.

You are really going off the wall on these issues margue. (Is that a DJ?)

Unfortunately, you are wanting to keeps tabs on him that are not humanly possible. AND, I would hazard a guess and add this, even though HE was the one that strayed...and he SHOULD be working to earn your trust, YOU are the one that needs to be more realistic with what it is going to take to earn that. He might just grow weary of your constant insecurities and absurd demands that HE is the one that does the walking.

I would think that individual counseling might be more in order right now. How about the minister at your new church? That should help as far as it costing is concerned.

Again, this is all JMHO
committed

P.S. Thanks to all who posted to Margue. I knew you wouldn't let me down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey committed.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Glad you're still not mad at me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is his brother his babysitter? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no, they work together now. He works for his brother and they are generally always together.

The problem that I have with it is that he is always saying "Nothing is going to happen again BECAUSE I am always with my brother, you know where I am all the time." but it's not true.

Not when I call him and he's alone and I didn't know it....so I don't know where he is all the time. He could be meeting her..all it takes is 3 min in the back seat of her car.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Does that make sense?? I tried to explain it to him...things that build for me are accountability of your time. Being where you say you REALLY are.

This was an issue before, he would tell me he had paper work to do he couldn't talk to me and he'd be with her...screwing her in her car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

So when he tells me he ALWAYS with his brother and I find out differently it makes me nuts.

So what else is he NOT telling me??

And there are lots of beautiful girls in our new church, young gorgegous girls...but I don't feel the way about them that this one makes me feel...she's exactly the same kind as the other...slightly off in the head, blonde, blue eyed, needy, always has to touch him, always has to make jokes, it just makes me uncomfortable...I don't say it about any other girl...not one..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">or offer up the information before you asked. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">bingo..this is it. Please don't let me FIND out the info, offer it..I would feel so much better. And it's not like I haven't said this to him a million times. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would think that individual counseling might be more in order right now. How about the minister at your new church? That should help as far as it costing is concerned. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm really thinking about it...most days I'm ok. thinks are ok between us then BAM something sends me into this downard spiral..usually it's what I preceive as his lack of trying..just let it go and it'll go away.

He said today "we'll be ok, we're gonna be fine" I said, "no we're not if we don't do SOMETHING go make that happen. We just can't let it to and pretend everything is ok"

I'm gonna ask him to skip church and go out with me tonight...we'll see how it goes. We really need to talk..

ok all you REALLY smart people <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I need help..how can I talk to him with out LBing all over the place.

We need to discuss REAL ways to build trust...I need ideas and ways to present them....??? please please please <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />