I have posted some updates , in the past 4 months of N/C . ANYONE who knows my story knows it took along time for contact to end .But with that said, that fact is it did . ALL the time contact was there we communicated the problems in M pre-A
also talked in lenght about the recovey process and N/C only being a small part of it .

Alright I will get to the issues .

WHAT the hell is wrong with me , NORMAL is not good for me . I thought I was past that fair tail thing . Well I am not .

I want to be romanced , I want to be treated like a WOMEN , I want the secret of the fantasy I want to be his wife but more then that , I am his best freind but I want that FIRST LOVE feeling again .

I don't want NORMAL , comfortable . I want exciting .

I made a statement to him when he came home , I said, I want you to eat , sleep , and breath me .

Ok don't think I am nuts , when we meet and during the early years of M even after first child I feel thats what he did .

A song came on the radio he called , thinking of you can't wait to see you later . Things like that . GOPED and GRABED me every second he was around me . Basicly it was always UP if ya know what I mean .

This was to the point it was annoying , I had to turn him away alot cause it was to much everytime I turned around .

Now I rejected him to much and then family things happened and then I got way FAT !!!!!!!!!!

ALL this yes , M went bad , I always begged and pleaded for communication . SEX thing well we both screwed up . I rejected then I got FAT and he was not interseted and I wasn't comfortable with me so now you got the picture .

Recovey - well I got all the agreed upon things , calls , accountablity , e-mail pass words , more then 15 hrs a week , affection (cuddleing ) ect.

He is remorseful , says that it will never happen again no female friends , and would never again lie if anything he even thought was as flirting or attreaction to anyone or anyone to him I would know right away .He and I know there are no garenties but hes says with that in to play he WILL NEVER STRAY AGAIN .

I want more details about intamate things , he WILL NOT give them to me no matter how important it is for me to recover .

He feels I blame myself and have to low self estemm issues that this will not help any.ALSO he is imbressed to talk about anything like that .

I mean I ask all I want to know possitions , how many times a day , how many orgasims , ect.

DID she excite you the way I use to . DID you let go in bed with her to fill wild fantasys . ??

SO last night I made it clear that I need to know , he was so angry . Stateing we have talked for over a year about there R , enough is enough and he will not go into anymore detail , he said, I rather take this to D before I have to do this .

It happened it was wrong , we know this , I regret eveything , I am home , I want trust and forgiveness and I want you to move past this .I will hold you listen to you , and explain everything else but NOT INTAMATE details .

Now mind you our sex life is 2x's a week !
THATS not the man I married , and then I compare the fact that he had an A with a HOTTY !!

BODY means alot to him always has , and I am trying but don't see I will get to that place again .

SO thats my delemma , IF I feel I need this , and he won't DO I JUST D. ????

I do love him and have worked my A$$ off to save this M and so has he .

HE says she was a mistake and it was an accident that it even went that far . he feels more remorse for her I think then me . HE does not BLAME her or even dilike her . He still feels he was the only person to do wrong here . HE knows even though a M was in the works of hell , he choose the A .

I am a creck for days screaming and yelling over everything , I am back to being depresed and angry .

WHEN I shut up long enough to see and hear there is nothing he is doing wrong .

I am starting to feel as if ,I will only make him misarable in the long run so why not let him go .

I am the one who may not be able to get past this .
The scary part is , that I feel like if I filed for D he would just be ok with it .

he would have that , well if you can't get pasted it I won't take getting it thrown in my face every day and that is where I am at right now .

I even stared accusing him of being with her again , this is something I know drives him away .

I hang up the phone and say nasty things like , ok bye give the B!tch a kiss for me cause I am sure you will go suck up to her sorry A$$ some time today .

He will still call , back and say no I do not see her I live you , please stop accusing me .

HHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!

I for sure will drive him back to her if I don't stop , amybe I do it to see how much he will put up with ?? I am so confused . I have a hard time with TIME and PACIANCE !!!

ANY thoughts , comments I know this is long !!!!

3isacrowd,
Hi, I don't post very often, but I float around alot reading the advice that others give and as I'm sure you know it helps ALOT! I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. My husband had an affair about 4 years ago now and he still won't "fess up" all the details. Like you, I wish he would just tell me what I so desperately need and want to know so that I can get angry, cry, rant and rave and get over it! Hang in there though, maybe someday they will realize how important that can be to us, the BSs.

I want more details about intamate things , he WILL NOT give them to me no matter how important it is for me to recover . I mean I ask all I want to know possitions , how many times a day , how many orgasims , ect. DID she excite you the way I use to . DID you let go in bed with her to fill wild fantasys . ??

3isacrowd,

These statements would concern me a bit if I was the one having to do the telling. They sound almost voyeuristic.

I know that the majority (if not ALL) of the people here will tell you that you are entitled to know EVERYTHING and that he MUST answer every question that you have...I guess I am one of the people that would NOT be asking these things because of the potential for more hurt. If you want to know these things...and must know these things for Recovery...what exactly is going to happen when you do KNOW these things? What is the goal in knowing? Trying to top the number of orgasms? Trying to throw in a position that might not have worked for them? Did he love having sex with her more than he did with you?

You are demanding some answers that he feels could be quite damaging to your self esteem and your recovery. While I will concede that you have a right to know, I think that I would wait until it might be safer for him to be able to answer. I really think that he feels it isn't safe quite yet and there's the reluctance.

How about, if you stop all demands for those answers...start rebuilding your life with him (especically your sex life) and then bring it up later when things are running a bit smoother. I would even just ask a couple of things at a time instead of the entire laundry list of things. As time goes by and you are more comfortable in your recovery, you might find that you no longer NEED to have all the intimate details.

Please Understand, this is JMHO...and I realize that I am the minority in this stand. So, I really do not need to be flamed by others that feel differently. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

committed

<small>[ September 24, 2003, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

Whoa 3! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hey, we all want the fairy tale thing. H makes huge mistake, finally sees the error of his ways, comes home and sweeps us off our feet with flowers, romance followed with great sex each and every night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I keep getting interrupted and am losing my train of thought. I will post later. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Do you think going to TOW site may have gotten to you?

3

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with you wanting to know details....provided you can handle them. Trust me don't ask if you are not prepared for what mental pictures might pop up once your question is answered.

And it is considered a must for real recovery to happen.

You could bore you husband to death with a dozen therapist theories on being "radically honest" "full disclosure" yada yada yada.

But I found "Joseph's letter" to be a very powerful tool when I pushed for full disclosure so I could actually get closure.

Its half way down the page on this link:

http://www.dearpeggy.com/com023.html

Hopefully after he reads this it will make him come to understand you need to know is not so you have something new to bash him over the head but so that you can have closure.

bonk bonk bonk...
bonk bonk bonk...

bonking you on the top of your head.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

3isa...what are you doing????!!!!!
and more importantly STOP IT!!!!!!

Remember that the best recovery...the best repentance is for all of us...no matter the transgression is changing and becoming a person who can not even fathom enacting such hurtful actions onto those we love and care about....

moving farther and farther and farther away from that "type" of person is true healing so that the person in front of you and themselves becomes someone so different that it appears that those past actions of indescresion were inacted by a stranger....

3is...3IS!!!! YOUR hubby sounds like he is becomeing that new person...and you keep draggeing him back to that old one..

ALL OF US...have those moments and actions in our lives past in which we either sold ourselves short and knew we were doing it....but still continued down that path...OR we took advantage and used others for our benefit and gain KNOWING full well we were deceptful...ALL OF US>>>>

Going back and revisiting those actions still hurt to this day...still make your skin crawl and has your mind saying...my God what was i thinking...and when we have come to really no longer be that person...no good comes from going back over those episodes over and over...

you are shoving your husband back to those times where he was the person he liked the least...

all his other actions are pointing towards someone who "gets it"...
and even his compassion for the OP no matter how difficult that is to swallow is a postive noble thing in someone realizing what a schmuck he was to play with anyones emotions and affections....yours, her, his...(and believe me that does not alleviate the OP in my mind of their own accountability...)

keep sending him back to that time of such self loath...and he will bolt...just as anyone would who is really moving from that type of person...

regardless of the affair...marriages take on their own patterns and lives...the fact that things are the "same" as they were in the beginning is not due to the affair exclusively...none of us can go back...

And the other thing threeis...your perception that he will not divulge is not necessarily because they are so precious and special to him..
sounds more to be like they are foul and embarrassing....and really no good will come from it...

his nondisclosure may have nothing to do with you..it may be his own horror at what he has done...and moving away positively is exactly what you should desire...

If you have chosen recovery..and it really sounds like he has....you must give him the gift of believing in him...his actions and words speak volumes of his belief in you....

there are no garuntees but if you continue to drag him back when he has moved forward...he will leave you....and that's the last thing he wants...

he loves you...
he cherishes you....

I would seek out orchid, and lor, melody, and pepper on this...they have some time behind their recovery....and perhaps can help you..
or knock some sense in ya!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
just kidding..
ARK

Thanks all , MIMI maybe , I been thinging that myself .

BuT I am scared that not all M are supposed to be saved . Or maybe thats the wrong way to put it .

I have tried so hard in our 18 yrs together to always know that I will not change him and except him for what and who he is .

This was a big thing to him ,Way back when most couples we knew where fighting over issues of change and trying to MOLD there future S's mine was always the first to stand up and say thats why I love 3 . she knows me and excepts me and loves me for me .

He was public about his love for me , but yet the private took every one by suprise , they see him as a very much I AM THE MAN OF THE HOUSE TYPE .

But in private he cried , and did goofyer things people would here me say and they would think I am lieing .

I am rambling , I just can't get hold of this , yes going to TOW screwed with my head .

I also did talk to other women over a year ago close to 2 . And everything she said then didn't get to me cause it was all the things he use to do and say to me word for word , he even gave her my pet name BOO . It made me feel good at the time cause he was trying so hard to relive US before we had problems .

But now that I went to TOW I am starting to see those things differently .
SHE stoll who I was , who I am , what made me the ONLY !!!!!!

I know not only her , HE did it and said, those things , but now there nothing witch means it all was not real or special .

I am nothing , when I look at him I don't feel special and it doesn't matter if he says it or crys it . I feel cheated .

I lost me , cause I made my life about him loving me .
I was sexy and he tripped all over me and I loved that , I needed the attention , I never had the confidence he should me the way .

Now I am older and and the standered joke I had about him never wanting to grow up , well I fear its no joke . I am affraid that M, family and the life of being settled is not going to be for him .

I feel as if he will always want that young thing with the great body ..

He says no , that was one of the things he said , the day he hit bottom , thats why I took him back I never heard him say it or thought I would think he meant it .

He cried for 3 days begging saying he relized , love was more then the out side it was inside and he had both right hear . Alot more then that but I won't go into it .

I now fear is that he feels M sex and life is to be NORMAL everyday whatever .

Where I don't want that , I want goofy, I want to make out when I kiss good -bye and hello .

I want to have him grab me while I cook dinner , I want the text message on my phone in the middle of the night when he sneaks out of bed to get water and jumps on pc to texted me ILOVE YOU .
Then run up the stairs and crawl back in bed laughing that my phone will beep . then rolls over and says just don't want ya to forget .

These are the things he was doing , even when we where going through the worst DRAMA .

I know TOW really F*^&*&^ with my head .

BUT maybe its not meant to be . I lOVE HIM VERY MUCH and never want this with anyone else only him .

Thanks,Ark.

I needed to hear your post today too.

My H is saying nothing about his A. I'm wanting to hear about it. I'm sure he's not talking because of his embarassment. Just like you said. He does speak often about being embarassed about his actions and is repentant. However, he does not give details.

He is being absolutely wonderful to me. I have no real reason to complain right now.

I needed to hear this from you.

3-LISTEN TO ARK!!!!!

Again. Thanks!!!!

<small>[ September 24, 2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

3

I know others are saying otherwise...but is this not also your recovery?

Are you not feeling good about your end of the recovery?

Should you settle for less than everything you want in order to recover?

I suspect 3 the reason you are suddenly feeling this way is the very fact you did not set as a condition of recovery complete and "radical honesty" as the Harley's call it.

I can't remember if its in "Torn Asunder" or "Surviving Infidelity" but they talk the betrayed spouse/wronged spouse going back again and again to certain points or things regarding the affair.

They say when a betrayed/wronged spouse does that its because they are not satisfied with whatever their wayward spouse told them.

3 somewhere in the past you did not get the answers you needed for closure. And for whatever reasons perhaps to avoid conflict or keep the peace you suppressed your feelings. Only problem is you shouldn't have. You truly needed to know. Now you are faced with this dilemna. You still need to know but you have let so much time go by.

I know others are telling you your husband might not want to face what happened....sorry he has no such right. He refused once to face the reality that marriages are work and escaped into the fantasy world of adultery. Does he truly deserve another chance to escape the reality of his actions?

Indeed would it not serve as a potential deterrent next time (if there is one I do not want to assume there will be) if he truly looks at all the pain and ugliness an affair represents?

I have read several books on affairs and everyone says full disclosure is a must. The only exception they make is if there is a chance for violence then they don't advocate full disclosure until a safe environment can be obtained.

Ark , we must have posted at the same time . Thank You It really was the nicest way I ever got hit with the 2x4 LOL .

I posted moments ago , I hear you , and know what your saying , he may bolt .

But maybe thats best for him , I feel to damaged and just don't know if I can take anything slow .

He always says we have our life together why is recovery such a RUSH for you , let things be and ALL will come back better then what we had .

He feels this A was in a weird sense the only thing to put our M back on track cause even though I fought hard for him to communicate he never heard a word I said.

<small>[ September 24, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: 3isacrowd ]</small>

STUNNED- yes we outlined as radical honesty , BUT he feels he is , they sleeped together the end .

Detail are not , he feels they are distroctive and that I would not belive him anyway . He says I have this image of what she meant and he knows me well that I do find it hard to think less .

Also there is something I agreed to or settled for in this process that I will regret forever .

OW DOES NOT KNOW H IS HOME , it was a long story but thats the bottom line .

I once had to hear him tell me on the phone I love ow and will M her .
This he did for her , she threatened him or something what ever .

The point it is killing me , I want him to tell her he is home cause she was a mistake .

He knows thats breaking the N/C rule now .
So I will settle for if she ever tried to contact him , tell her . HE WILL NOT , feels it will do no good to start her up .

Ok I am so out of control nothing is making sense . Well I agreed to this and said, as long as there is N/C I never cared , but I was hoping he would and want to put me above all .

.

<small>[ September 24, 2003, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: 3isacrowd ]</small>

STUNNED- yes we outlined as radical honesty , BUT he feels he is , they sleeped together the end .

Detail are not , he feels they are distroctive and that I would not belive him anyway . He says I have this image of what she meant and he knows me well that I do find it hard to think less .

Also there is something I agreed to or settled for in this process that I will regret forever .

OW DOES NOT KNOW H IS HOME , it was a long story but thats the bottom line .

I once had to hear him tell me on the phone I love ow and will M her .
This he did for her , she threatened him or something what ever .

The point it is killing me , I want him to tell her he is home cause she was a mistake .

He knows thats breaking the N/C rule now .
So I will settle for if she ever tried to contact him , tell her . HE WILL NOT , feels it will do no good to start her up .

Ok I am so out of control nothing is making sense . Well I agreed to this and said, as long as there is N/C I never cared , but I was hoping he would and want to put me above all .

<small>[ September 24, 2003, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: 3isacrowd ]</small>

Hey 3,

I wish I had magic words to help.

Are you still talking with your priest?
Have you ever thought of starting a rantrantraverave thread here that you can use to let off some of this steam? Honest, we can take it, and you have the finger on the pulse of your M and are thinking your M can't.

Time for radical honesty...time for you to be RADICALLY honest with your H...and not in screaming and yelling fits. Time to settle in for a talk. Light some candles, kiss him softly, play some music, and tell him about your triggers and about how RAW this all is still. He may be healing, but you are having trouble and sometimes pick at your scabs (sorry about that picture...I do the same thing, figuratively).

Tell him you'd like him one day to tell you more things...not to sweep it under the rug. My H has promised he'll answer questions...and does...and sometimes I blindside him with some doozies.
When he wasn't convinced to tell me the truth yet I had to promise I wouldn't use his truths or words to punish him...wouldn't lash out at him...that it was healing to hear things...that by telling me these things it was as though he was betraying her to me!

We had past betrayals that the truth never came out fully...and that left a seed for betrayals to start again (at least that was my thought). I wanted to do it differently this time and air it out...for him to be honest about the dirty secrets.

The biggest reason he didn't want to tell me what was going on was because HE was ashamed, didn't want to admit he had done some of the things he had done. Living with that shame just prompted him to try to hide it some more with escaping...and other flirtations.

Not saying that will happen here...he seems like he is holding back to protect you. Talk with him about how it is huritng you, not helping. But talk calmly...he wont beleive you if you're screaming it at him.

Thinking about you!!

Hey 3

Whatever makes you happy is all that matters. Hope I didn't come accross as pushy.

But I look at your post and you are lamenting the loss of what was or could have been.

For me that says you are still in the 3rd stage of recovery grieving.

Trust me I am there at times and hate falling back...you know the routine two steps forward and the dreaded one step back.

If YOU feel you need full disclosure then HE owes it to you. But if he gives you that you must accept it without anger without sorrow. Accept the truth warts and all and do not punish him for being honest.

Remember something here....HE broke YOUR trust, HE must rebuild that trust. And if that means full disclosure then so be it. HE does owe you that if he truly is remorseful if he truly wants to make things right.

I would hate for this time next year for you to be posting this very thing over again.

I will tell you this odds are his view of things has changed radically towards the OW. And if so he will not remember things in the loving passionate way you think. Indeed odds are he will see the affair for what it really was false promises.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, we all want the fairy tale thing. H makes huge mistake, finally sees the error of his ways, comes home and sweeps us off our feet with flowers, romance followed with great sex each and every night.

I keep getting interrupted and am losing my train of thought. I will post later.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, I'm home now. The reality of it is that kids, bills, garbage and maintaining a house is not conducive to a constant romantic atmosphere. Neither is recovering from an A.

3, look at what you posted to me in the "potato salad" thread...that it was my choice how to react to the triggers. Choose to accept that H and OW slept together (you already know that) but that you choose to restore your M (which you have chosen). Beyond knowing that they did the dirty deed, is it really necessary to know how, how many times, did he ever think of you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> , Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera? (Yul Brynner/The King & I) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> In what way do you think it would help your personal recovery?

You guys have come along way and to hear you speak of the "D" word bothers me.

I know it bothers you that H never told OW he was back home. He should have told her,in consideration for your feelings, when he broke things off. But now with NC, he can't. But don't you really think OW knows anyway?

3, I can't quote it right now (I still have 2 days work in my head) but I'm sure you know it...the Serenity Prayer.

Do not go to the TOW site anymore. I went there too and most are actually proud of what they do. I won't be visiting again. I'm saving all my "mean BS energies" for only one OW. I'd be exhausted if I told them all off! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Mega Hugs!!!{{{{{{{{{{{3}}}}}}}}}}}}and calm down <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />