Still in Plan A, but it's wearing on me.

We are not in the Plan A that everyone else is in. Our Plan A is just her saying she will keep NC. She won't agree to MC or IC. She says she's talked out and doesn't want to discuss anymore about the A. I have been trying to fill her bank and for the most part think I am getting more in than out.

She's still not attempting to meet any of my EN's. I think I'm doing everything right and at times she throws a bone my way, i.e. Says she loves me, a kiss.

I'm working hard at not throwing any LB's around and have only asked once in the last month if she is maintaining NC. So I guess I'm on the right track...

But.....

I am still feeling terribly lonely. Nights are the worse because I still have trouble sleeping. Our sex life is still nonexistant and she still pushes me away a lot. I try not and make a big deal of it and continue to feel exactly like a doormat. The only thing good going is that my gut (which has yet to be proven wrong) tells me she is still in withdrawl and is maintaining NC.

So here's my question.....

How often do the BS's become WS's? Is it common? I'm not asking this because I want revenge, it's because I need to feel loved. Not only that but lately I've had huge physical impulses and am afraid to act on them with her for fear of rejection. There's a large part of me that needs to feel important, needs to feel special, needs to be the One. I know I'm vulnerable right now.

I also am very aware of the pain this would cause and would probably be the end of our M. I think this is what's keeping me from it. But I do need. I need very much and am just not getting what I need from my W.
I've tried talking to W about this, but she just thinks it's a tactic to get her to give in some more. She doesn't want to talk anymore about it and everytime I bring it up she shuts down.

Not that I'm going to act, just curious.

Well I feel your pain. It's been almost 7 months since my WW left on DDay to further pursue her affair partner. He's also married.

I don't have any children and I'm in my mid 30's. I also have never had a problem meeting someone and want to be needed.

I think this is the toughest part of recovery or moving on we as BS face. My needs have not been met for a long time as during the affair my WW was juggling two relationships.

I have dated and though it helped me see that there are other woman that enjoy my company it also taught me that I'm not close to being ready for a new relationship. So I've stoped for a while. The only reason I started dating was my wife went NC on me for the past four months while continuing her affair.

I know it's tough but I think your doing well. Asking about your wifes NC once a month is not unreasonable. And she may slip up so be prepared as withdrawl is very tough. As for the need for sex and affection don't push it at all.

Your WW is likely confused about her feelings and if you push she will likely resent your constant request and preasure.

hang tough

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"How often do the BS's become WS's? Is it common? I'm not asking this because I want revenge, it's because I need to feel loved. Not only that but lately I've had huge physical impulses and am afraid to act on them with her for fear of rejection. There's a large part of me that needs to feel important, needs to feel special, needs to be the One. I know I'm vulnerable right now."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know the statistics but zorweb probably does. My personal beleif, is that it probably is more than half of the uneducated BS's (btw you do not fall into this category) that fall into so called 'revenge' affairs IF the opportunity presents itself shortly after d-day. And revenge has NOTHING to do with it, while the emotional neglect by the WS coupled with the BS's badly damaged self esteem DOES. So be very vigilant that you do not cross marital boundaries with any woman who may become your confidant.

<small>[ September 25, 2003, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

At the 2 year seperation year mark, I am getting worried about myself... this week I have been flirted with a few times, and yes, I liked it... I even find myself worried around a few of the guys. I find myself really wanting the kind, and nice and interested attention... instead of the mean kind of attention my ws gives me... the kind that is like... I will throw you a bone... and you should be lucky! ;(

Anyway, I am ripe for an A myself, and scared. My morals say No. My intellect and resolve say no, what I know about A's and marriage and children, etc. says No. But I am very lonely. I am crying with loneliness and the ws doesn't get it, maybe he is in another A?

I am very frightened of losing my M.... we were closer to reconciling later but there was a big blow up.... anyway, I have had no male friends for a few years, and am lately making some with clear knowledge to them that I want my M. One asked me this week if I want to Date... now is that a clue he might be interested? I know his body langauge and interest is??! I do like that and I am also interested in him... but oh well.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> tired of the stupidity...!

So tired of it.

Off to work.... I know it is bad to make a bad situation worse, but how long can you wait. For me I feel that if I must date, I need to be D'd.... so for now despite my desire to be loved and held, etc.... I do wish it would be my husband but it is not, he claims I am crazy trying to make our M work lately - How stupid am I??? So I guess I will let go as best I can, believe me I am no good at that.... and try to let him see what it is like for me not to care.... maybe he will go for another girl??? I am afraid of that, as I know he has needs, he is not pursuing me, as I am always there for him... ALWAYS!.... ;(

Gotta go to work, H

Honey,

As I read your reply I asked myself, I said 'Self! Two years? Are you kidding?'. I am hanging on by my fingertips now and at times feel my position is slipping. There are times I think I have a better grip, but for the most part I feel like I'm losing ground. How you've made it this long is a testament to your strength and commitment. I can't say where I'll be two years from now, but I pray it's not where you are. I'm sure if you could go back knowing what you know now things would be different, maybe.

Here's today's optimistic assessment: Life's too short for this crud.

I've been happier, but have never been sadder than I am right now. Living at the bottom like a catfish scrounging on castoffs is no way to live.

I am not a bottom feeder!

My Lord why me? I thought I'd paid my price in pain and suffering with my first marriage. I kept my hand on the rail and took the higher road.

It seems my life is a constant struggle to keep my head above water. It also seems that the major complications and strife in my life have always been centered around weakness in others.

It seems when I am alone (not in a committed relationship) my life is much more consistant and pleasent. Every time I introduce love in the mix things fall apart.

Why do we do this to ourselves? Why do we open our hearts to these others that only seek to burn and destroy?

At 43 years of allowing others to batter my heart I think it might be time to build walls.

When I was between marriages I don't think I had EN's. At least I never felt as needy as I do now. Maybe I was able to fill those on my own.

just ranting.....not liking myself needy.

then again.....

I love her. It seems at times my whole being even my entire existence is centered around loving her. She is heaven and hell, sustenance and poison. There are times I look at her and can't help but drink her in. There are other times I look at her and bitter anger flares. She rules my dreams and walks in and out of my consciousness.

I think sometimes I am not complete if I don't have someone special in my life.

Ok, too general.

I don't feel complete unless she is in my life. That's why I'm still there. I want to feel complete again. I dread spending the rest of my life trying to fill the void.

Having ventured into the depths I resist swimming in the shallows.

then again.....

I love her. It seems at times my whole being even my entire existence is centered around loving her. She is heaven and hell, sustenance and poison. There are times I look at her and can't help but drink her in. There are other times I look at her and bitter anger flares. She rules my dreams and walks in and out of my consciousness.

I think sometimes I am not complete if I don't have someone special in my life.

Ok, too general.

I don't feel complete unless she is in my life. That's why I'm still there. I want to feel complete again. I dread spending the rest of my life trying to fill the void.

Having ventured into the depths I resist swimming in the shallows.

Harry

I am at work right now and don't have a bunch of time but....

I was the BS and then crossed over to the dark side and became a WS. I posted a thread in my signature line asking the same question as you except by that time I had had an A. There are a few who are in the same boat as I was that posted on this thread. I didn't set out top have the A but I didn't do much to stop it either.

It is good that you are here. Keep posting.

God Bless

You know, you hit on something I've noticed, both here and in my own WW:

The meetings of ENs seems to be very much a one way street. My WW's A was all about me not meeting her ENs. In fact, it wasn't that I wasn't meeting them, but rather she didn't want ME to be meeting them. I tried - Lord knows I tried! But, my efforts were spurned.
Our Recovery started off being about how my not meeting her ENs was the reason she had the A. She was neglected, felt unloved, I was emotionally unaccessible yadda, yadda. We've heard it before.

The reality was that I wasn't neglecting her; rather her ENs changed, but the way I was trying to meet them hadn't. The problem was that we didn't share with each other. She didn't tell me her needs had changed, and I didn't tell her that I was finding the old ways not working.

Not much has changed, in all honestly. For my situation, I find the past year has been about "her needs", but in all honestly for the same period pre-A that her needs were not being met, neither were mine.

Like you, I am now finding it exhausting that in all this focus on her ENs that mine still have yet to get on the screen. Moreover, there is yet to be any real desire on her part to want to meet them.

Hi Harry,

I have dated on and off my ws throughout this mess, he has had me, yes with sf on and off, throughout this crud throughout the whole 2 years. Hell on Earth, Yes.

Tonite, I have flirted yes again. I have been asked out to dinner, will I go? Very likely with this nice man who looks me up and down and hugged me very kindly, probably yes. I am so so lonely. I am so so tired of the lonely nights. I am so so tired of the lonlieness. I have told the ws. I have told him over and over. I have told him I want couseling to resume. My neediness is insane. He has had other women. I think he wants his his guilt relieved by my having other men. Will I tell him? I prefer not. I actually prefer not to have other men. But I prefer not to have to be alone anymore. I cannot stand it.

Anyway. I had a first marriage where I cheated with this my high school sweat heart... I vowed I would never never do such an awful terrible thing... however my first husband was physically abusive... so I would call that an exception... now this huband drinks... am I a nut? Maybe? Do I love this man, yes... Is he verbally abusive now, yes at times, has this husband been truly wonderful, YES!!!!

Am I confused??? Yes.

I know the major confusion....

Help is you offer advice.

Thanks, H

Uphill....

Hey, Those are my words! I am in your exact same boat. Prior to the EA started I demanded we go to counseling. We went for a month before she refused to return. The reason was obvious. The counseler was on her to stop being so selfish and start taking responsibility. She didn't want to see that so that was that. After that I really picked up the pace and put my entire effort into the marriage and her. We took weekend trips, I tried romancing her pulling out all the stops.

But try as I might the EA started and then the PA.

The rest is as you say....all about her. My needs have gone unmet or better yet unnoticed for the better part of 2 years. Her reason for the affair? Yeah...you know it. The words....'I'm Unhappy' grate so hard on my nerves.

Honey! Stop a second......
Is this what you really want?
Hey! What am I saying.....I'm in the same boat! Guess what I've been flirting with?

In the nights, when it's worse I crave someone to talk to. I find myself on Yahoo just looking for human contact. I know I'm swimming with sharks, but the need to connect with another person is too overwhelming. In doing this I know I will eventually fall prey, but I don't stop. Human contact is almost an addiction. Times even the chat falls short and I go to Walmart in the dead of night to talk with the lonely cashiers.

What is to become of me? Like you I am so utterly alone. I can at times taste it. I crave someone to talk to and understand me and support me. I don't want an affair, but Like you and Uphill it seems I'm being driven to it.

Harry-

Not having read through all your posts, can you share what your top 3 EN's are?

My impression is that conversation and affection are perhaps vying for the top?! Be careful as your desire for affection may be a door opener to a PA!

Also, you may not have the "intention" of becoming a WS however I can share my experience as the WS that my X hinted at an affair of revenge while we were separated yet never acted upon it. Sharing this with me at any level leads me to beleive she may have intense feelings to act it out! Praise her for her strength at that time! Are your feelings in greater allegiance with the notion of a EA/PA than what you are expressing here!?

God's Blessings to YOU, HarryS!
<><

Harry I suggest that you sit down and calmly and respectfully convey to your W EVERYTHING you told us about your present situation. If you don't practice being honest with her you are more than likely to fall into the same trap she did and have an affair of your own. She needs to know this in order to wake up and to realize how critical the situation really is.

Remember that dishonesty and secrecy are the birth parents of affairs.

Catch....thats an easy one: Affection, Honesty and Openness, Admiration and Sexual Fulfillment are kinda tied for third.

Yes! I know the combination of these are begging for at the least an EA if not a full blown PA.

And this leads into TooMuch's comments about trying to communicate this to my wife. Lord knows I've tried. The minute I start she shuts down. She is in full blown depression/fog/withdrawl and anytime the subject of 'us' comes up she's over the wall and goes AWOL. I've tried writing letters, notes. I've tried chat and email. I've done it all. I've even tried getting a family member she really loves to discuss this with her. Every time it's the same response.....I'm tired of talking about it.

She's content to have me go all out and take care of her EN's. We both work full time jobs, but I also do all the cooking, most of the cleaning, bill paying, fix-its, yard work, shopping, ect. You get the picture. She comes home from work and expects to be waited on. And for the most part I do it. We fell into this trap cause I used to be a single dad and did it all then. When she came in the picture she did take some of the load, a bit, but slowly it eroded. Now the girls have grown up and moved out and I'm still doing it all for her.

And to answer your next question, yes I have withheld this in an effort to get her to the table so to speak. When I do this she retaliates and just doesn't come home. She tends to go to her mom's where she'll get that level of care there. I've asked her mom to support me on this and she has for the most part. When all this happens things do tend to get a bit better, but as soon as I start giving into her EN's again it's back to normal.

I am a divorced BS and now find myself in love with a mm who has been separated from his w for almost 6 months. I have recently ended the relationship since mm and w are discussing a reunion. I know the right thing is to have nc, but it's extremely hard and I question what will happen if they do reunite and mm comes to me.

I see things through my ex ws's eyes and that scares me!