I know you felt flamed for trying to help 8-time with the enneagram information. I don't think a flame was intended dear... see if this makes sense.

The Enneagram stuff is really fascinating.
Suggestion for ya love, this stuff is really good and really does help gain insight. Nobody can question how much you want to help someone find the answers they need, what with that heart on your sleeve and all (pot, kettle - nuff said)

Let me offer an idea - if you see someone and think the enneagram information might really help it might make sense to start a different thread and call their attention to it - that way they can have one thread about that Elephant who just shat on the coffee table (immediate, concrete, right now stuff like CA needs) and another for them to really delve into why they did what they did so they can conquer those issues. (CA, 8time others will need this very soon)

What you are trying to help him with is crucial for recovery but probably is like drinking a waterfall right now. With someone brand new who is in a world of hurt they are usually seeking an immediate answer - more likely they know the answer and come to have someone repeat it to them and help them figure out how to start acting on it.

For me, since I am the only WS I am an expert on, the real delving into why I was what I was came after the crisis - at first I was a walking trauma case and we had to fix the arterial bleeding first and then figure out what cut me.

Make sense hon? Don't be discouraged, I am pretty good at helping by being a direct, in your face, pain in the [censored] who keeps repeating those damned uncomfortable questions until they are answered, you are wonderful at helping someone overcome the guilt and shame of the affair by helping them see themselves as they really are and finding an approach that fits them - both work, both are needed, and both are quite valid. ...but with so many rushing to help a guy like 8-time the thread gets a little jumbled and splitting off a seperate thread for delving into the psyche might make it clearer.

...and if you have 3-4 long, soothing, educational posts helping him understand it and I sneak a 2x4 thunk in between it interrupts his thinking about what you are saying with "Damn that 2ofakind" thoughts.

Y'Tink?

I am going to have to agree with 2 here...

I had been following 8's thread and was encouraged by reading all the posts and opinions... And honestly when I got to the Enneagram posts- I lost interest... It just seemed off topic for me... (opinion I know...)
Sorry- SW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I will have to say that both of you are wonderful people, with great insight..... (from what I read...) I have learned SO much from each of your posts- but in different ways...

2OAK- I hope and pray that when my WS comes out of the fog- you are here for advice for him... Your style of communication is exactly what would help my situation...

StillWed- Your posts and insight have helped me tremoundously...

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in... Cause you both are GREAT... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I get what you are saying, 2ofaKind, but do please note that this guy had 7 pages of people helping him and he hadn't really gotten anywhere. (I had posted early in the thread.) I only jumped back in when I got the call from you, 2oak, about the Local Church thing. Other than that, I had checked back a few times, read the thread progress, and realized that I couldn't help him and had let it go. I truly had no intention of going back to that post other than the call from you. The only reason I did jump in when I got caught up with the thread is because this guy was exhibiting classic Type Four behavior. I have 29 years of experience with being married to a Four.I also have my own experience with it because I go there as a path of disintegration myself. I can almost guarantee you that unless someone rescues him from this fire...he WILL act out again. One day it is going to backfire and it will be his kids that he unintentionally hurts. That's when Fours turn to suicide as a viable option. As it turns out he's a Sexual or Intimate Seven. They look just like a Four in many ways. They are very hooked on the feelings of falling in love. They are very affair prone.

I do like the idea of starting another thread. I was genuinely embarrassed that this was taking so much space and time for both him and myself. I've never had that much trouble helping someone to type himself. Never! I also then told myself not to worry about that aspect because he was LISTENING and listening is a good thing.

I also posted to him because he was a repeat offender. A repeat offender is a different kind of person than a one-time offender. A one time offender makes a mistake, makes an error in judgement, lets a situation get out of hand. A repeat offender is an addict. He's got personality issues all over the place. If he doesn't face THOSE...he'll do it again....and again...until the pain he gets from acting out outweighs the pleasure. I think that 8Time is to that point. That's where I prefer to come in.

So, why don't I start new threads...well...check out my history here. I think I've only started maybe 4 or 5 since late January! One of them was a straight Enneagram thread, which was necessary at the time because it was so new to everyone on the board. I try to get more comfortable with doing that if it makes it easier for you and I do appreciate the suggestion.

I felt that it was very rude of A.M. to suggest that I move it to private e-mail. That gave the very distinct impression that this has no place on the board. If that is true then neither do any of the other marriage self-help ideas out there. I also would not be comfortable privately e-mailing a man prone to affairs. (Our therapist requires that you type yourself right away at the beginning of therapy.) I generally just blow off rude comments, but this one was a boundary violation for me. I'm not wrong to enforce my boundaries when they are intruded upon.

Please note that I'm not telling anyone else how to post or not post, even if I think it might make things run smoother. You will not see a post from me that says, so and so...over here.

The board is a pot luck. You bring what you bring. You put it out there. If you want some of that dish, you try it. If you don't, you leave it. That is my philosophy about how boards are run. The moderators step in when something gets out of hand. That's exactly what I told Dustkitty about a month ago.

2 Oak, I'm not saying that you are doing something wrong. I'm just pointing out that you hurt my feelings, as did A.M. Martin. I do appreciate that you are not questioning my intentions. You may think it's bragging, but they are pure as gold...I do have that strong Two-wing after all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . In my response to A.M. Martin, I responded defensively to an offensive post.

Again, I think you're a great guy! Ouch, thanks for your kind words and insight into the situation.

Stillwed

SW...

Let me be reeeeaaallly clear since the written word does not convey tone well.

I meant no offense and just the opposite - I saw your feelings getting hurt, saw 8t and the other guy say it was off-topic and wanted to propose a solution because I think you have a lot of value to add with the enneagram info.

Don't know the best way to say it m'dear but I find tools like this wonderful. I see you as someone who found something that helped you immensely and who has the grace and generosity to share it in the hopes others might benefit.

THAT was the intent, I did not want you to drop it because i thought it was getting us somewhere and didn't want you to say 'screw them' and drop it.

You are very clear on the fact that 2OAK values and appreciates you for the sweet person you are aren't you???

I sure hope so.

If it ain't clear yet SW - I really like, respect and admire you. Not just for your smarts but because you are generous enough to share your experience, at no benefit to you, with others strictly out of genuine caring and love.

Got it yet?

I would never, under any circumstances, try to insult you or hurt your feelings and my intent here was solely to try to diffuse an impending icky situation - I got a lot of 9 in me remember? I don't like conflict and try to find ways to make everyone smile remember??? Hey, you are the one who helped peg me, you know this!

Surely now you get it?

Next week we do an enneagram thread for 2oak if you are still willin to figure out what's wrong with my brain. But I am a selfish lout, i want my own thread.

Hugs,
2

PS> his main thread is all over the freakin place as you pointed out, my add'l hope is we get him to 3-4 focused threads because the main thread has everything under the sun.

Dear 2ofaKind,

You wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> PS> his main thread is all over the freakin place as you pointed out, my add'l hope is we get him to 3-4 focused threads because the main thread has everything under the sun. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I appreciate you validating what I was trying to convey to you, but 2oak, why didn't you read it BEFORE you posted to me? Did you also notice that my first post to him was dated on September 3rd? I wasn't exactly pestering the guy. I came back on the 23rd. That gave everyone else close to three weeks to help him without suggesting the Enneagram. It's all in the details, son.

If you read the entire Enneagram thread you will see that he willingly took the test, he was getting bored with it (Sevens hate being bored) when he found that it wasn't as easy as he thought that it should have been and then when we got too close to his pain, he was finished with it. (For the record, "off topic" to a Seven could easily read..."oh crap, I am just about to have to look myself in the eye and I can't do it.) If you haven't already read the entire thread (which would be nice), right after he said it was off topic...I was done. I gave him a list of books and wished him well.

You wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I meant no offense and just the opposite - I saw your feelings getting hurt, saw 8t and the other guy say it was off-topic and wanted to propose a solution because I think you have a lot of value to add with the enneagram info.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to say something to you that is very hard for me to say because it makes me feel bad to think that by standing up for myself, I might bring pain to you. (That's a One for you...darn Inner Critic!) Okay, here goes:

Why did you find it your job to propose a solution? Please don't read a bunch of stuff into that. Just read it as it is. Why did you think that it was your job to intervene between another poster and myself? If I didn't like a post of yours, I'd skip it. I do confess to sticking up for Way2 a bit during the DK incident because I had read the offending post when others commenting on it had not.

Now I will let you in on a little secret to let the sting out of that a bit. Give me some credit here...I'm letting you see my vulnerable side because I like you. My daughter-in-law does this to our family every time she is here. I love her dearly, but she can make me crazy. She did it up big last Sunday. She butts in when it's not about her. She is also a Two. I've had it "up to here" with it...so, you are getting a bit of the brunt of that resentment that's been building in me. Sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ! I'm projecting some of my anger toward her on to you and I openly acknowledge it. I don't have to look you in the eye or live with you, I do have to live with her. You also don't have the advantage of having given birth to my first grandson <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ! Maybe that is the same reason that you felt that it was okay to butt in. You don't have to live with me either!

The other "guy" was A.M.Martin by the way and she is a woman...you just helped her rewrite her letter to her WH.

So, 2oak, we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I'd say that I accept your apology, but you didn't give me much to go on there. I do believe that your intentions were wonderful, but I also believe that you crossed a boundary. Maybe you just didn't see it, that's okay! Now you know right where it is.

Hugs right back at ya!

Still

P.S. Remember that I don't hold grudges, but I do holler occasionally...especially when my tail gets stepped on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2ofaKind:

(immediate, concrete, right now stuff like CA needs) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2ofaKind ,

Hey, quit talking about me behind my back!

I am soooooo kidding!!!!

I found this thread while trying to figure out if you were online today.

And just so you know, when I start to think that I am not worthy of love, happiness, etc., all I have to do is remind myself that somebody upstairs sure must think I am worthy or they wouldn't have given me you.

God Bless you and your lovely wifey.

CA

<small>[ September 26, 2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: chocolate..addict ]</small>

Stillwed

..you mean I butt into things that are none of my business, meddle and forget that you can take care of yourself?

LOL Guilty your honor.

Thanks for setting me straight graciously, any lingering resentment would make me very sad - good points all.

...and an occasional thunk if I get too full of myself ain't a bad idea.

2ofaKind,

You're a gem and I mean that! Thank you for understanding that I just needed to say that...for me more than for you. You've given me a gift by receiving it graciously. You're a wonderful guy...J is one lucky lady and this board is one lucky board to have you!

Hugs,

Stillwed

2oak,

Now I've been feeling bad for you all day and thinking that I should add to my last post....beware of women age 45 to 55 coming into their power! Be especially careful about the ones that still have PMS!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Stillwed