Hi all-

Well, I have had my first therapy session with X. I was very suprised by the whole thing.

Last week he and I were at WAR again. The conflictwas over the visitation day during the week that X os authorized by th ecustody agreement.

The basic argument is that X feels that it's okay to change days with 24 hours notice because his social schedule and travel schedule interfere with his weekday visitation.

My position is that DS needs consistency and I need to have a life that isn't centered around X's needs. I am open to negotiation on work issues but I feel that he only gives me very short notice and I have no choice in the matter. My life has always centered around his schedule, but now, we aren't partners. I have no reason to accomodate his social life. If he chooses to schedule an evening out, it should be when he doesn't have DS. It's only 1 day a week. I would jump at that if it were me.

Neither is right or wrong.

Well, this "issue" ended up with some verbal shots fired by me in an email. My email was short amd basically pointed out that he made a big deal about DS going to a certain event but when the event actually happened, X was no where to be found. I asked him where his priority lay because it vertainly wasn't with Ds.

He then fired a few Cannonball's at me. Of course there was nothing about what he was or wasn't doing. It was all about what I did to him, what things I did wrong, yatta, yatta, yatta. I didn't go forward with the ping pong match but I did realize that he is using my past as a dagger and a sheild against me. Won't work anymore. I can't change what was.

It did hurt though that he pointed out how he felt that there was something wrong with me because I succombed to depression and gave up. I interpreted that to mean that I am inferior because I couldn't emotionally deal with things that way that he does. It's as if I'm a lesser human because I feel and think the way that I do.

Needless to say, we're both VERY angry and there seems to be no middle ground.

So-the issue came up in therapy. My points were made and I focused my position on the idea that DS needs to know consistently what day he will be with who. This changing days on the fly leaves no room for scheduled functions because it's unpredictable.

X feels like I should give up MY scheduled time to accomodate him. He feels that since I gain time I should give time.

I'm willing to take feedback from all of you to give me objective ways of looking at this.

Well, at the end of therapy, I was ANGRY. I can't express to you all just how much fury there was inside of me. I was really suprised by this because I have been generally peaceful in nature. As I drove away from the therapy, I became very overwhelmed by the whole thing and I broke down into tears. I kept crying and I don't really understand where that came from.

I felt awful. I felt as if everyone in that room were accusing me of using DS as a weapon. I sincerely want the best for Ds and I'm trying to give him the stability and structure that he deserves. I just felt as if X was the "victim" of my anger. Even though I truly know in my heart that it isn't the case, I becan to doubt who I was and what my motives were about again.

Now I'm wondering if therapy is such a good idea. It certainly seemed to get me very worked up and confused all over again. I've been doing really well and I guess I'm afraid that this will bring me back into the pain that I worked so hard to overcome. What good can come of something that I come away from feeling so ugly and angry? As usual though, he walks away untouched and smelling like roses.

Am I doing the right things?

{{{{Kily}}}}

Instead of dwelling on the negative that your ex heeped on you, what did the counselor say?

As a parent, I think that stability and consistency are critical, especially, after all the turmoil that separations cause - not to mention that your son is still quite young. For me, I try to keep DS's life very routine with very little surprise - that is what everything I have read on parenting and divorce recommends. Regardless, if you are doing what YOU believe is in your sons best interest, that is all anyone can ask of you.

Regards,

Brit's Brat

HI BB-

Thanks for responding.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As a parent, I think that stability and consistency are critical, especially, after all the turmoil that separations cause - not to mention that your son is still quite young. For me, I try to keep DS's life very routine with very little surprise - that is what everything I have read on parenting and divorce recommends. Regardless, if you are doing what YOU believe is in your sons best interest, that is all anyone can ask of you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this so completely. Unfortunately I can't express this to X because all he sees right now is anger and pain. It is very much what I want for Ds and for myself as well.

Our therapy is interesting because it's conducted by two girls and a panel of students and teacher behind a mirrored wall. In the therapy, I only touched on the emotional stuff and explained the situation as pointedly and honestly as I could.

The panel was split 50/50 in regard to what the motivation was behind my desires. The end result was that they requested 1 weekday that we can mutually agree with. X picked a day and it wasn't good for me. We left there with nothing resolved and the anger flying. Later that day, i called X and offered DS to him for Friday and Saturday night to make up for the travel day that he won't have him during this week.

I think that for next week, I am planning to write the hours that Ds is with each of us so that a clear picture can develop about what is going on. Then I will illustrate how the hours alternate as the arrangements swap. Then they can see, and X can see, exactly what the best situation will be for all of us.

I know that I am emotional, but I try and step away from my feelings to do what is best for DS. Your advice and criticisms tend to give me a great place to sort it out and make the best choices.

Thanks-

Hi K,
I'm sorry that this therapy session was so upsetting.

I am going to try and word this the best way possible. Don't you have primary custody, more or less, of your son? Just trying to get the timing down in my mind.

This now will sound very old fashioned to many out there, but it is a fact. Some will be mad at me, and I know that there are exceptions in the mom/dad role world. Overall though, mothers do most of the child-rearing. When push comes to shove, it's us and not the dads who are mainly given the most responsibility for them.

My exH has often times changed days when he's to see the kids due to his schedule, including work related 'social' things. It's happening this week, again. I don't mind, I'm glad to have the kids here with me extra. On the other hand , mine are big enough to take care of themselves.

I have noticed that exH can simply announce to me that he's going out of town, etc...there's never an 'Is that okay?" It's an announcement. I always have to ask him if he can watch them, carpool them, etc. This is how it is. I am the mom. It's been this way since day one, so perhaps that's why it doesn't bother me. I was a stay at home mom for years. I see our roles as very different. Equally important, but a bit different.

We carry them in our wombs, give birth to them, suckle them, we're the moms. Sorry to be that blunt--but that's how I see it. DAds are important and wonderful, but let's face it our roles are different.

I'd just not make a big deal out of your exBF changing the day/times with your son. It's your son, and I'm sure you want to spend as much time with him as possible when you're not at work. He won't be little much longer, and you won't have missed out on him. Your exBf is missing out, it's his loss.

Before you know it, he'll be big. My youngest is now 16--near 17. It's amazing how fast they grow. I'd love to go back to them being smaller, just to experience that wonderful time again. But that's me!

That's my take. I know many will not like it, but that's how I see it.

H_P

Well maybe I am wrong here but I am assuming primary custodial parents are just that. And sadly visitation rights aren't visitation musts.

By that he has the right to the kids but is not legally compelled to take the kids.

If I am wrong correct me but I have watched my ex BIL do what you described for a couple of years now.

Whups! Duplicate post; see below. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Just J ]</small>

I'm in the middle of ending one of the most heated and ugly custody battles one can imagine, where not only was the time I could spend with my daughter questioned, but my basic right to BE with my daughter was questioned.

So I can completely understand both points of view, here, Kily, and the rage that you've felt. I have sat in my car and screamed obscenities with spit flying everywhere, pounding on the steering wheel until my hands and arms were bruised. There is nothing like the rage that comes with these experiences, nothing at all.

I am also the parent with much less time with my DD, though I am female. And I have much MORE time with my DD than your poor X has. (And yes, I do mean poor! I have tremendous sympathy for him.)

As the primary custodial parent, you have a huge responsibility not only to your son and what's best for him that YOU can give him (e.g., consistency).

You also have an added burden that you may not realize. Nearly 65% of secondary parents (your X is very much one of these!) are marginalized in the years following a divorce. How does that happen? Stuff exactly like you're going through. Since he doesn't have much time with his son, your X will slowly lose his love and commitment to him, and they may very well drift apart.

Does flexing to your X's schedule create resentment? Yes, it does. But at the same time, his statement that if you're gaining time you should also give it up is completely fair and reasonable! He knows, though he may not be able to articulate it well, that he needs to have TIME with his son in order to maintain that connection to him. If you think about the goal of 15 hours of GOOD time with a person, and then you add sleeping/eating/cooking/cleaning, etc., you probably realize that he needs at least double that to even come close to the time he needs to really maintain a strong relationship with him.

And parenting is at least as much about all the routine chores as it is about the GOOD time. It's about teaching someone to live life, from how to brush their teeth and tie their shoes to how to speak politely to strangers and to be an upstanding member of society.

It's important that your XH have that with your son. With his son. And really, it sounds to me like your concern isn't that, but rather it's the amount of notice you have. So separate out all the other stuff and ask yourself: What do you need to feel better about it? You said 24 hours was too short. What about 48 hours? Would that work?

Your XH is in as much pain as you are right now, or maybe more. He's lost his family, not just his spouse, in some very real ways.

And now that you're divorced, it's your responsibility, and his, to take a deep breath and put aside that anger and hurt. Your son needs the both of you no matter how much it hurts. Make sure you don't accidently marginalize his father with your anger and hurt.

Never believe that a "mother" is more important than a "father." There are simply two parents with very different roles and approaches, and all the research indicates that a child needs two parents to grow well in the world. Make that happen, even if it requires some flexibility on your part. Sure, kids need consistency. But they need their parents more, even when things are a little irregular.

Hi Kily,
I think you have some very good responses here but perhaps I may ask some things to clarify. Much of the posting seems to say that you ought to let DS see his dad on other days if he can't do it on a regularly scheduled one. I don't think you have a problem with that part of it. I think you have a problem with the timing.

Lets say you are scheduled to go out of town on a business trip, and dad is supposed to have son. Dad calls up and says: "I can't take son this weekend, you keep him." He only gives you 12 hours notice. You have to scramble to get someone to take care of son just because dad changed his mind.

I can see how that would be a problem.

The other side is when he doesn't get DS when he is supposed to get him, and then he wants him another day when you had promised to take DS to some kind of event, or you had arranged your schedule to go for a hike or something with son and dad says: "I don't care what you have planned, I didn't get him Wed, so I want him tomorrow."

It looks to me that these things are the kind of problem you are dealing with, and that ex doesn't care about your schedule and expects you to do anything to accommodate his. I can see how this would make you angry.

I know you struggle with your feelings. You still have some love for him, and in the past you have been too nice and regretted it because he walks all over those feelings. You made a vow not to let him trample on you any longer, but you also know what Christ said about loving your enemies, so you wonder - should there be boundaries? What should they be? When are you supposed to be hard, and when should you be soft?

The same God that tells us to love our enemies, once said "thou shalt utterly destroy......" so there are extremes for our us to think about. I think the difference is that God knows peoples motives, and we do not. God says to turn the other cheek, and to me that means sometimes we suffer that others may see our example and turn back to God. BUT, I don't see where he said stand still and let them kill you and don't do anything at all. I believe in that case he would expect us to - at the very least, run away to save our selves. I don't believe you have to submit to what has often been emotional abuse in the name of helping him out.

You may be able to find some common ground. You may be able to tell ex that you will help out as much as you can, but sometimes your own commitments won't allow you to take son when it's his turn, and that sometimes you won't be able to give him up when plans have already been made on your end. It may be that you can explain that with a month notice, you can almost always help out, but as it gets closer to the time the harder it will be, so he can learn to make plans in advance to increase his chances. If he can't, your plans are just as important as his ( you can ask: "Whose plans are more important, his or mine? Don't' they have equal weight?") and so he can't expect you to change your plans just because his change. You have to deal with the real world, and so can he. He can get a sitter for DS if his plans change, just like you would have to. It's not that you don't want to help, it's that you can't always make it work whenever he changes his plans. You have responsibilities and plans too, and yours are just as important as his. It's not like his employment pays your bills, you pay them yourself, you work full time just as he does. How can he claim his job demands are more important than yours are?

So, to summarize - you are as kind as you can be when you can be kind, and when you can't, he has to learn to deal with it like you have been doing all along.

Now I expect you to come back and tell me that therapy was yesterday and you are all done with this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Both H_P and J J gave you some very good ideas from what they are seeing from reading your post. If you examine what they said - and realize that they are responding to what they see based on how you wrote - it should give you some feedbadk on how others see you - and I believe that would be valueable to you going back before the mirrored window. My post was written to help you better present yourself.

Hope it helps, sorry it took me so long.

Were you able to read that reference? Did it help at all?

SS

<small>[ October 02, 2003, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>