MY GF and I have been seeing each other for 4.5 years.

Through out that time we have had wonderfull moments, but there have been some shaky times as well.

I entered into the relationship with a lot of baggage. Im 11 years older, have two kids, 14 and 17, have some finacial problems, and and X wife who initial caused us a lot of grief.

Since we have been together there has been one other man, but I was warned is advance and we were broken up before she went to see him. That "affair" was short lived and we reconciled shortly thereafter

SHe tends to cybe online quiet abit however and starting this year there was trouble in our relationship. We have been living together for over a year now.

Ok, so its a long story, but Im realy struggling and while Ive read many fine posts on these boards, I didnt find one that addressed my own specific concerns.

In June she started talking to a guy. First chat then the phone. With in three weeks she flew out to meet him on a buisness trip. I didnt know about it until her mom slipped something about meeting an old friend. When she came back she asked me to move downstairs. This was July 14th.

I was toaly confused and snooped her chat records and found out about her affair. Three days later I confronted her with it. She didnt deny any thing , but claimed it was her own personal buisness.

I struggled and tried to do some Plan A stuff, but their affair kept going. All though out this last summer they have been chatting and calling every day. So I snooped some more and found out that they were meeting for the weekend last, but my WS found out that I had snooped and confronted me with it. To me and her, trust is a huge issue. While I have no trust in her, she has no trust in me either after that.

Since that time, she distanced herself alot. We use ICQ and shes always on invidsable with me not being able to see her.

They had there weekend together. IM not sure how it went for them, but slowly she has been a little more open to me.

This last weekend we went to dinner because she wanted to have a talk. She mearly said she didnt know what she wanted and wasnt moving out. The next night we saw Under the Tuscan Sun together. Twice I think she touched me but for the most part kept her distance. Yesterday she let me rub her sore hand. LAter I wrapped it in an ace bandage and also rubbed her back.

Its stuff like this that keeps me guessing. I know she still talks to him. I think they are plannign another redevous, but she still shows me these tiny signs that she cares about me and it makes it hard for me to give up hope.

I want to reconcil. Shes heard it. Im going about my daily routine and trying to avoid the pain of knowing that I am being ignored, but sometiems I am not.

I guess my question is, the holidays are coming. This will be astressfull time for everyone. Am I to just hang in there under these circumstances and wait and see if she even wants to reconcile?

I feel like I can just hang. Ive told my counsler the same thing. Its just hard. I get tossed these small bones and Im supposed to feel loved. I do not. I feel betrayed. Even if she does dump him and ask to come back to me she hasnt heard my pain. Im not going to just let her back in without some commitment and sacrifice.

I realy appreaciate all the comments and support this site has to offer for us as we go through one of our most painfull experiences of out life times.

Thank you for reading this and I will appreciate any comments you might have.

Eric

Dear Eric,

I am sorry to find you here...

In your case I would guess I would start with defining exactly what living together means...
with marriage vows there is the obvious "intent" spoken in vows...that is not necessarily in existance when living together...

note this is not a judgement...about living together..but can often feed into the nature of the beast of exclusive commitment...

What have you two discussed about solo commitment?

I am wondering if have read about plan A and do you consider yourself to be in plan a..
for that's is perhaps where you should start...

read on plan a..
about meeting her needs and engaging her and you in acitvities that she enjoys...
also about exposing the existance of her affair and the effects of this on your relationship.

Don't hang in there eric...get busy get active..both in filling her love bank...and setting limits on what you can tolerate in your life...

much luck to you..the more you post infor on how it's going the more people can address and help you out...

ARK

I proposed to her once, but she felt very uncomfortable with that. While she may have eecked a yes, when we got back from hawaii, she wanted a slightly different ring. I couldnt afford a new stone and too much time passed between the proposal and me getting the right ring so that opportunity was missed. It was probably just as well seeing as she was not ready.

That was 18 months ago. The last 14 months we have been living under one roof. Its just since the affair that we have been separated.

For us living together means, I sleep downstairs and she sleeps in the master bedroom. I do come up and use the shower once in awhile and most of my clothes are still up there, but I dont realy need to go in the room at all anymore. I knock and ask before entering too.

While I have always been fully committed to our relationship, she has facilated back and forth between some commitment and very little. I think we are in the very little stage. She lives here with me and my daughter but sees no responsibility for our relationship other than the house that we share.

She can move out if she wants to, but doesnt.

I have been doing alot more things for myself, but I miss her and Im stuggling with how long it will take before resolution one way or the other.

<small>[ September 29, 2003, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Eric Anderson ]</small>

Eric:

I think we all go through this kind of soul-searching when we feel betrayed. It's healthy. It never hurts 2 go back and re-read about plan A. Consider whether you ought 2 go 2 plan B, also. It sounds like you have some work on yourself 2 do first, though. Plan B shouldn't be attempted without accepting that one of the possible outcomes is that you're relationship might end.

In addition 2 the A-related books out there, I'd encourage you 2 read some self-help books as well. Take yourself out of the sitch for a bit, and see what kind of person YOU are, who YOU want 2 be. Not just 2 impress your SO, but 2 impress yourself (and maybe her, or someone else at a later time).

I have 2 admit that it does sound a bit like your SO feels "entitled" 2 play the field because you're not M'd. Commitment is commitment, however, and if you've been living 2gether for a year, then you're committed 2 one another at least financially. And having an A can mess up the financial security just as much as your emotional stability.

Is SHE in counseling with you? Or on her own? If not, would she be willing 2 join you in counseling?

-kid 2long
P.S. An old favorite song of mine is by another "Eric Anderson". At least, I don't think it's you(?).

"Young Rob stands, with his axe in hand, yeah,
Believin' that the crops are in.
Firewood stacked, ten by ten
For the wife, the folks the kids, and all of the kin...
...And a friend."
"Blue River" - Eric Anderson (sometime around the mid 70s) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I started seeing a counsler about 4 weeks ago to help me sort though my desicion of if I should stay or if I should go.

I suspect it would be hard to ask her to go to counseling since she is still talkingto her BF. He does live on the other side of the country, so physical contact is rough.

I have also taken some time to reidentify with myself having lost most of myself after losing my best friend.

Eric,

still not clear if you have read fully up on plan a....

sounds like you have backed off from meeting emotional needs...which is exactly what you should be trying to do...
also explain to me how someone moves into your house and you end up out of the master bedroom??

yikes that's rather bold..

anyways...I think you should aggessively work on engaging her with you in activities together...

be attractive and someone fun to be around with...
try a little romance...leave her a flower, a card..
invite her out on a evening she would enjoy...

you should be trying to fill needs...and make yourself and what you have to offer better than what the OP is giving...

I understand the pull to retreat and back off...but all it does is feed into her belief that the OP is so much more interested in her...
and the distance issue is something you definitely can take advantage of...

her crappola about your snooping is just WS deflection of their own actions...

ARK

I have been picking roses from our garden and making boquets for her. Im certain she likes them very much. ANd we have enjoyed some time together, but she is often distant.

I just reread the plan A, and I cant ask her to commit unless she is ready to commit, so Im just continuing to meet those needs that I can.

I guess it realy is a long road. I guess Im prepared to continue loving her in this way for many more months, even through the holidays.

As for activities, I suggest many, but if she is not into it I drop it and suggest another. Whenever she suggests something, Im all over it.

I hoping that their relationship implodes under its own wieght. I just dont know how long that will take. And since she chooses not to move out, then I suspect that she is staying here for a reason more than just because its comfortable.

ARK,
I'm new to the site. I can see you're very familiar with MBs and how the whole process could work for a couple. I see how you're trying to help Eric and you've reminded him of Plan A.

My WH is attempting to distance himself from both me and the OW, so that he can work on himself through counseling, anti D's, etc... He says he still is not sure what he wants, and his therapist says that he can not make a clear decision until the meds kick in and he starts to make some sense of what it is he is doing with his life. I respect this, and although it kills me to not see him everyday, I know this is the way he needs to do it. However, he still sees the OW at work nearly everyday (she conveniently had her schedule changed to almost match his), and I know for a fact that she calls him on the phone so much more than I call him. (And, we have one child together, with another on the way...)

Anyway, my point is that I'm trying not to bother him, and trying to give him the space he needs, however on the other hand, I'm afraid that this constant contact he receives from her will interfere with his course of action.

When I am with him, I try to be sensitive to his ENs, to show that I still care and want to help him through this. The last thing I want to do is to seem cold and uncaring and send him right into her arms. This is so hard for me right now, because the betrayal hurts so much, and I feel like he should be meeting my ENs (baby's due in 5 wks), but I'm willing to fight for this marriage. I have so much more to lose than the 23 year old girl that happened to catch him on a vulnerable day...

WH and I have been together for 8 years, married for 4.5, and the EA started back in April. It did go physical about 6wks ago, but since H started therapy and meds, he's aware that he cannot be physical with either of us if he is to really make a definate decision between us. I hope he's sincere here...

H tells me that he's sorry, that he knows he blew the best thing he ever had, but that he just doesn't know what he's doing. He also says that he loves me, we're still best friends and that he can't imagine life without me. I don't want to be naive either, and I know he's told her in the past what she's wanted to hear too, but I also told him that if he had no intention of working things out with me, and was just sticking it out through the pregnancy, then to let me go before this baby comes, so I can at least know that when I bring him home, his Daddy won't be staying. He swears that is not his plan.

Do you think I'm going about this with the right attitude? Thanks for any input.

MotherofPearl

Eric,

Plan A is not necessarily getting a commit from someone right up front...

if you got a commitment you would be in recovery not plan A or B...

Plan A is about tools that help you find footing, keep your sanity and negoiate the ending of an affair...

You should be plan Aing you butt off...
with lots of expectactions of rejection and distance....but if you let that hold you back then you two will flounder in YOUR house...passing eachother like ships and she will have all the freedom to conitinue her long distance relationship...

I guess it realy is a long road. I guess Im prepared to continue loving her in this way for many more months, even through the holidays

this can be just encouraging cake eating....

and really not that I am encouraging a lot of deep relationship talk...but she goes to meet OM goes to meet other man...and then comes home and asks you to move out of YOUR bedroom?????

You need to engage in activities she would enjoy..
invite her places that she would enjoy...and when she says no...GO anyways...make it clear you are going...that you want nothing more than for her to be with you...

What are her top five EN needs do you know them...
are you meeting them....
what do you think they are...
are you meeting the needs she wants and desires or the needs you BELIEVE she wants..they can be different...

Are you happy upbeat in the house...
do you cook her dinner when she comes home...invite her to eat with you...and then be OK if she says no....

You need to to a really really good plan a in which you charm the socks off of her...and in which you really do learn about meeitng her needs.....

mother of pearl..blessings to you..
I would like to address sometihngs with you as well..
your husband stands at that great point of self wallowing in guilt and blame...to the point that they relieve themselves of any real responsibility of their actions...

ie
I'm such a **&^ up..there's no point now in fixing it... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Is their affair exposed...to family...you need support...

baby in five weeks... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> (hello little baby)

what is his plan when the baby is born...is he going to help you..or are seeking out others...

do you know his top needs...five...
Is he spending time with you and your other little one?
Is he spending time at home..
where is he living...
there are ways to offer support that break down the defense of I've messed it up soooo bad..there's no hope...gag puke...

perhaps we can move your post up to get some more input...

ARK

Ark,
Thank you for your response. Just to answer a few of your ? After avoiding the majority of his family for months, he finally told just about everyone. But now, exactly what he was trying to avoid is happening. They're all getting in his face and putting in their 2 cents. So, now he's avoiding most of them again. I'm staying with his mother and he is in our house. Why did I leave, you may ask? A couple of reasons. It was much too difficult to be in the same house with my husband and not share our bed with him, basically feeling like roommates. The OP (I have a hard time referring to her as a "woman"), would call, and he would call her. I felt that I was just killing time in my house (I'm currently unemployed), allowing my H to have a girlfriend, and just waiting for him to "figure it out." He said that he would find another place to stay, but #1, we really can't afford that, #2, I felt that would send him right over to her place, and #3, on the nights that he does have our daughter, I want her to at least be in a familiar home, not just some bachelor pad he's staying at or the OPs. I guess in a sense, I've been playing this game by his rules for so long, that I figured I needed to take a little control of something. He seems ok with the situation.

He does see our daughter, though it's at his convenience. I haven't devised any type of schedule. He either comes to his Mother's to see her or I take her to our place. He does spend time with me, and has even attempted intimacy, but like I stated in my previous post, we both believe that is not what he really needs right now. Besides, even though I really want to give it my all, intimacy is a cruel reminder of the PA. He is affectionate towards me, often just holding me, or reaches out to touch my hand. We always hug when we leave each other. It's just such a confusing place, right now.

His family is very supportive of me, and he knows that. He was telling me just the other day that he and his cousin were going to get the house ready for me to bring baby home. He said that he wanted me to come back to the house and that if we were still in "limbo," he would find another place to stay, possibly with this same cousin. I told him again, we can't afford it, and that I had already prepared myself to just bring the baby home to his Mother's. He seemed a little disappointed, but understood. I know that he will be there for me when baby comes, that's not a question. Despite everything he's going through, and the poor decisions he's made, he is a family man at heart, and usually thrives at times like this.

I was just talking to his cousin the other day (H has confided in this particular person quite a bit), and he told me that H said that he needs to make a decision really soon. I told the cousin that he cannot make a decision solely because this baby will be here soon. Although in my heart, I want him to committ to me 100%, and committ soon, I also don't want him to do it out of obligation, and then after the height of having new baby comes and goes, he realizes that he made the wrong decision.

The sad part is, that H has told me that he knows there is no trust between him and the OP. They have both lied to each other, she's already cheated on him. What is it about her that's got such a hold on him? She *&)%s up and all she has to do is tell him, "I know I messed up, but I'm really in love with you." He folds... YUK.

No, I do not know his top 5 ENs. I will print them out today and maybe ask him tonight. Is there a way that I can do this somewhat discreetly? Other than seeing his therapist and taking his meds, I'm not sure how receptive he would be to me attempting Plan A. H knows nothing of this site, it's my own source of retaining any sanity.

I'd better get going and tend to my daughter.

Mother of Pearl

Me=31
WH=29 (on the brink of the big "30", if that means ANYTHING)
Met Oct. 95
Married March 99
EA April 03
Dday May 30, 03
Still in "limbo"

Mother of Pearl I can relate to where you are coming from.

I am trying so hard to provide for my loves ENs.

Tonight I made my favorite dinner.

She was tired and in her room. I went in after knocking and told her dinner was ready, but she was tired and nearly asleep so I told it was fine and left her alone.

I talked with my roommate awhile, Shes been helping me with me relatioship with my XGF and suggested that I just give her space, but then she came out and we talked it bit.

Sometimes its the smallest thingsthat means the most. She was wearing a ring that I had not seen her wear since we split up in June. Granted its not one of MY rings, but it is a ring that we bought together. Whether this was a sign from her that she cared is a mystery, but I took it as a sign that she concisouly put that ring on to say, I still care about where this ring came from. To me it was huge.

ANd then she reitred. I did the dishes and here I am wondering if we will evver be together again.

Perhaps one day we shall, but in the mean time I have a plan.

Do everything I can to be the best that I can be to her and everyone else that I love and let the chips fall where they may.

Its a simple plan. Its my version of Plan A. I dont like plan B at all. Its just not in my nature to attempt it. And if my some miracle my X wants to reconcile, I will be waiting to embrace her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Eric,
Sounds like we're treading similar waters these days. My H came up to MIL's after work to visit with daughter. MIL tries to remain optimistic and believes that he drives up here to see me, too, not just daughter. So, I decided to follow some of the advice ARK had passed on to you. I made a nice dinner, and we visited for an hour or so. He offered to rub my back, which was nice, because he's usually the taker, and is quick to ask me to rub his. I think he's really feeling the pressure of the impending arrival of this baby. (Just 5 wks to go, now, but with all the stress I've been under, anything could happen.)

I'm trying to remain upbeat around him, and make him remember what it was that made him fall in love with me 8 years ago. I know that thru the years, we started to take each other for granted, (and we've discussed this, he agrees). And I know this sounds odd to most, but you probably totally understand, even though he has betrayed me and has treated me so unfairly, this whole situation has made me realize how much I really love him.

I know how frustrating it is to do something nice for someone, only to be rejected. So many times, when H and I were still in the same house, I would make a nice meal, and he would either say he wasn't hungry yet, and wait so long that the dinner was cold, or he would continue to drink all night to "escape," and then eventually just pass out. It just made me wonder why in the hell I kept trying. This whole thing is just a mystery to me, it happened so fast...

I'm so glad I found this site. I never thought that so many BS's would be taking the same position that I'm taking. (I refer to it as the "Stand by your Man" position). I figured I was just a fool for having any faith at all. I agree with you as far as Plan B goes, don't really care for that idea. I'm having a hard enough time living in seperate houses for now, but I just got so tired of crying every time that phone would ring...

As far as your X putting that ring on... If she hasn't worn it since June, and then all of a sudden she comes downstairs with it on, yeah, I think she was trying to say something. Just like on the night I decided to pack my bag and head for MIL's, I removed my wedding rings, and placed them on my right hand. I WILL NOT take them off completely, but for now, they will remain on the other hand, just as a reminder to H that I'm not giving up. He noticed a couple of days after I did it. Asked me why I switched my rings over, and I told him that he knew why. But, I also added that at least I was still wearing mine... Even our 3 year old daughter told H one day as he headed off to work, "Daddy, you forgot your ring." Don't think I didn't fall apart after that one.

H got hit in the temple about 6 weeks ago during a softball game. Was hoping it would knock some sense in to him, but all he suffered was a mild concussion... If it was only that easy...

I read a post yesterday from a thread in Emotional Needs. It caught my eye, and you'll probably appreciate it: I feel like I'm sitting on the bench waiting for the bus, only to find out I'm at the train station.

Here's hoping that the fog will lift for both of our WS's soon...

Eric,

I guess I'm still not clear on how things are between the two of you...

also note that while I may come off as some person who is aggressively hounding you to do somethings....that is not necessarily the case..BUT I find that it is very easy for people to slip into "status quo" states just to avoid any real conflict or God forbid decisions that may be what we don't want to hear...
BUT I believe that these status quo not rocking the boat set patterns that are difficult to break when reconcilliation occurs...and that waste a lot of time...

And since she chooses not to move out, then I suspect that she is staying here for a reason more than just because its comfortable.

could be dangerous thinking on your part....protect yourself...

I just reread the plan A, and I cant ask her to commit unless she is ready to commit, so Im just continuing to meet those needs that I can.

asking someone and being ready to commit are not the same...does she even know you expect/want commitment if you don't tell her...her readiness is irrevelant of your expectations and desires in a equal partnership...be wary that you are not making the appearance of condoning her extra activities based on lack of objection..be careful that your actions are not used against...

she hits you with...
"you never said that I anything about me seeing him..I assumed you didn't care"...etc...

Are you saying that you guy have officially discussed and consider yourself "broken up" in the sense that she lives in your house with you and your daughter but is free to date/see other people?

And Eric I am going to profess great concern about what HER behavior is teaching YOUR daughter...she is a guest in YOUR and YOUR daughters home...and is acting out this disrespectful behavior in front of her...
uuuggghhhhhh

Affairs are actions of great disrespect to all persons involved...
you, the other person...toying with his emotions as if she is free to do so...and even herself...

but blatantly in front of a young child ...with no commitment of marriage...what a load of mixed messages she is sending out about respecting others and oneself...

Think about this Eric...you daughter has lost two parents being together through a divorce and now this woman is modeling extremely poor behavior...\

I am not saying this to attack you...but you need to see this and her behavior in respect to what her actions teach those that are impressionable...
and be wary also of what your own actions and responses teach as well...

I wish you well in this Eric...
ARK

Arc, I realy appreciate you insight. It helps for me to focus where I should be coming from.

We are broken up. That much is clear. When I tried to determine if we were done done as I call it every time I boach this subject my XGF says she doesnt know.

I know she still talks to him, but she talks to me too just not in the same way. Right now we are just good friends. Perhaps that is all we will every be from this point forward, but Im holding out some hope that my current respectfull plan A type actions will have the positive affect on her when her relationship with her lover hits relaity and comes out of this romance stage.

She clearly knew that I cared about her talking to him when a couple of months ago I burst into her room and asked her to not talk to him while I was in the house. At the time it was too painful. She then talked to him outside of the house, but more recently has returned to talking to him in her bedroom again. I have learned to accept that she will do what she must do. How can I fight for her if she is not willing to recommit?

I learned today aftet talking to my counsler, that my actions are still oriented towords pleasing her. Im trying to also do things for myself, but Im not ready for any new commitments to anyone else because I am still loyal to her.

When I proposed 18 months ago, I had taken a digital camer with me. On the last day I inadvertently deleted ALL the pictures. Needless to say we were both very upset about losing those memories. One of the pictures was me preseting her the ring. Well I kept the flash memory, and recently found a place that might be able to recover the digital images. Today I got a call and he did recover nearly ALL of them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I bought a nice flip photo album and when the CD arrives, Im going to have a nice surprize for her. No special occaision other than a card and the album in a bow.

So thats my plan. Keep looking for ways to show that I care about her and keep doing things to improve myself...to grow. And if by chance she decides that she wants to reconcile then I will be ready to work on that. Im just hoping we come to that stage.

I wanted to take a moment to comment on my daughter as well. We have the best relationship. My daughter supports me 100%. If it werent for her Id be in a world of hurt. She does not trust my XGF and would rather see that we never get back together. She has seen the pain Ive gone through and basicaly considers her to be disrespectfull, rude, and generaly unkind. But my daughter respects my decision to keep trying. She like all those who also care about me just want me to be happy.

<small>[ October 02, 2003, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: Eric Anderson ]</small>

Eric,

I see you have been given good help from Ark. Since U 2 are not married and you have a child in your care plus the fact that she is being out right disrespectful to you and your home, it may be better to end this R and look for someone who will NOT take advantage of you.

Comfortable? Don't become comfortable with this type of treatment.

U know your incident about the ring? The reason why did not accept are excuses. The real reason is not being addressed. Therefore your R can not move forward.

From what you posted she sounds like a bit of a gold digger. You are meeting her needs and she will continue to let you do so.

Like Ark said, what example is this for your child?

Eric, she is not that great a catch if you are having these troubles. Really? If more of us knew what you know, we would not have had to suffer such pain.

I hope you are able to move forward and not let anyone walk over you like this again.

JMHO,
L.

ERIC ERIC ERIC ERIC

I have not been to sleep since yesterday morning 6:30 am..it is a proven medical fact that lack of sleep causes temporary psychosis...
My snynapses are not firing quite right...
I am going to take a stab at this...and may wake up in five hours and say what the he)) was I talking about....
or I might not...

but consider yourself warned...

When I tried to determine if we were done done as I call it every time I boach this subject my XGF says she doesnt know.

and why would she ever have to know...she has it made in the shade..
MASTER BEDROOM in YOUR house...
access to other man 24/7 via technology...
and you cooking her dinner AND doing DISHES!!!

I'm thinking about moving in with ya'll next week as well... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Right now we are just good friends

Right now she does not meet the definition of a friend...let alone a good friend...
this does not make her an enemy...but do not twist or rationalize her disrepectful actions and change the real definition of words to justify her behavior...

I have learned to accept that she will do what she must do.
this is true..but you also must set limits and boundaries that define your self worth...

Eric there is a lot of good stuff on these boards right now about being loveing and accepting...and while it sounds difficult to be loveing AND set boundaries that protect you at the same time...it is how we define to others especially those we wish to be exclusive with...what a partnership really is...
what worth there is in ouselves and our partners..

I hear the compassionate romantic side of you...but the price may to high especially with your daugther so involved...

You stand at a crossroad ...in which the decision also needs to include the needs of your daughter...
what she needs is a dad...strong enough to stand up for himself..and risk losing someone..even if it to gain back themselves...

she needs a dad to teach her how to never be living in a home in which the person she professes to love treats her with such disrepect...with no real commitment...

Would you want to see your daughter living as you are now...with a man who treats her as you are treated?

Your girlfriend is doing great harm to you for she almost has you convinced that what she is doing is acceptable...

and in reality it is acceptable because you doaccept it..so you also are teaching this to your daughter....

children should not be put in positions to support really harmful choices...

it's not fair to them...what other choice does your daughter really have...

tell you to lose the girlfriend....
and she will lose you...

because she knows you will choose the girlfriend upstairs over her...
like you do every day...
does she really have a choice in this?...

I can not fathom how uncomfortable it must be for your daughter to be living with a woman who treats her own dad so badly...a virtual stranger welcome in her home to reak havoc and pain on her father...
and has no ability to change it...

I know this is a tough post...

How can I fight for her if she is not willing to recommit?

You don't fight for her...you fight for what is right and decent about a real relationship...
and if she comes to see value in that and in you...then you have all gained...

alright eric...I am really tired now...and really sad...

I wish you wisdom and God's Grace I hope you are praying for clarity on this...

blessings to you and your children.
ARK

Then I must do what is right for me and my daughters. This has always been so.

Truly, she is not that great of a friend right now either. She was my best friend. I invested all my time and energy into her and our relationship and it was all tossed away like it was nothing.

Im trying to reidentify with myself, but Im constantly wishing for a reconciliation that may never come. Id like to meet new friends and build new and better relationships, but its unfair to the new people I meet to have this "hope" to reconcile. So I feel stuck. At least for now and until a final resolution is made.

Tonight we talked very shortly about my finances. She doesnt think I can afford to buy her out and live here on my own. I think I can. Besides what difference whould it be to her if I buy her out and then she can quit claim on the deed and use that document to remove her name from the loan and be free and clear of me and our house.

I asked her to leave once, but retracted it that very night. We are just casual room mates and Im hoping to live like this until next year?

Yes, I have serious doubts that a relationship between us will ever reconcile. My hope is dieing out like the embers in a spent fire with no fuel or air left to keep them alive except for my faintest hope.

<small>[ October 03, 2003, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: Eric Anderson ]</small>

Eric,

My MC and many here @ MB told me to 'plan B' the WS ASAP. I was soo relunctant. Waited 3 months. 3 painful long months.

By the 4th month (1 month into plan B he was asking to come home) and by the 5th month he was still asking and the OW in the background telling me to take him back. Go figure! Of course this was not the end of it but it was the start of my recovery. Still it took a while. I wished I had the strength, knowledge, forsight and balance between my heart and mind to have done it quicker.

Just thought sharing my experience might help.

take care,
L.

Is plan B just going about your buisness as if the relationship is over and expecting nothing from it?

Im ready for a plan B. Its realy just a plan to be who I am and not try so hard for something that is not there.

This morning she let me cuddle her some in her bed. I enjoyed it and we spent the rest of the day trapsing about as friends and not much else.

Then around 10pm I knocked on her door and went inside. I was tryign to find out if she wants any contact from me. I moved around to her and touched her. She made these comments.

"Eric." She said " I dont like how when I show you a little affection you take advantage of it and grope me for days afterwards. Then I have to get mad at you to stop."

Ok, perhaps I was groping. I was only reaching out to touch her, but if she flinches then I back off immediately. It sure doesnt seem right to be treated with such disdain and rejection after what was a pretty decent day, but why should I expect anything more.

She is planning on seeing her BF in CT in about 10 days. We realy dont have much left.

Eric plan b is about holding on to and protecting the "love" you have for someone who continues to be disrepectful and hurtful...

It is removing yourself from their chaos and pain while clearly letting them know that you do love them and believe in them...and giving them the gift that you hope they will change...

It is removing your participation in a triangle which serves to assist the WS in continueing their hurtful behavior....

Eric Plan B is all about believing and realizing that you YOU are worthy of more respect in a relationship...

that YOU can protect the love you feel for someone without being part of their game...

Eric I am very concerned that you would take her back this very minute if she agreed...

You deserve more in a relationship...and not that she isn't capable of becoming a person worthy of you she's not close to being there ....

AND the fact that you would take her back no matter what...speak volumes about what you need to work on within yourself ...regardless of what she does or does not do...

she's a cake eater big time...

ERIC it's your HOME...with your daughter there...and I think you should ask her to leave...

if she were take you back right now...you will have gained NOTHING...

All you will have gained is someone who has no idea what commitment means, ....what respect means...
nothing...she doesn't get it...

If you work on you and come to that place in which you yourself see your own value and gifts seperate of her choices and behavior...
then i seriously doubt you will still view her as someone who YOU would do anything to get back...

I know it hurts you..
I know it is letting go of a lot of things that are comfortable to you...and have become the norm..
change is hard...and scary...

and you have done nothing wrong...but nor do you deserve such disrespect in your world...

ARK