Hi again everyone. Those of you who have heard my story know that my wife has been in numerous A over the last five years of our M (at least). In my last post I told about my wife's desire to try and reconcile with me. I didn't talk about what has been happening recently, but after talking with a friend of mine I feel I need to ask for some input on the latest developments.

About two weeks ago my W started acting a bit out of the ordinary. She seemed to have something on her mind and finally I asked her if everything was okay. She told me that something had happened and that she needed to tell me but to give her some time. About four days later she told me that she had been raped. I helped her find a counselor immediately and she went to talk with her without hesitation. After her session with this counselor she told me that she had also told her that she was trying to work things out with me. Her counselor told her that she should in her own time tell me what had happpened. That if she truly wanted to work things out with me she should tell me the details in her own time.

A week ago she told me that a man that lives in the same apartment complex she does (there are only four units total)had come over to her car when she pulled in and asked her if she had a band-aid for his hand. She said yes and told him to come in. This guy is only twenty-two years old and lives with another roommate about the same age. According to her she had gotten to know them on a neighborly basis along with the other people who live in the other apartments there. He had gotten into a fight with his roommmate and had bloodied his hand. She said he had obviously been drinking but really didn't think much of it. While he was there a girlfriend of hers and her boyfriend showed up at her apartment also. All four of them decided to go to a little bar up the road from the apartments. They had a few drinks while there and all of them went back to her place afterwards. Soon after her girlfriend and boyfriend left leaving just the two of them at her place alone. She said she never really thought anything about it, but then he started coming on to her and basically did not leave until he got what he wanted.

She has refused to press charges or even report this to the police. She said that she feels humiliated and could not handle a court case like this with the D proceedings going on at the same time.

To be honest I did not believe her at first. The timing of this just seemed to be too convenient. She could say that this happened and play on my sympathies to get me to allow her back in my life. I have educated myself somewhat on rape victims and how they behave and have seen that the vast majority of rapes go unreported. It also seems that one of the biggest complaints from women who have gone through this is that people don't believe them. I have been nothing but supportive through this for her but I have to tell you that the doubts still linger. I feel horrible feeling this way but I can't help it. Could this be a sick attempt on her part to manipulate me?

It wouldn't matter if I had absolutely no thought of trying to reconcile, but I haven't ruled that out completely. Could this possibly be some demented ploy of hers? I told my best friend the story this evening and he doesn't believe one word of it. He is completely convinced that she is lying to take advantage of me and wants me to see if she would be willing to at least file a police report about the incident without pressing charges to call her bluff. I'm not sure what to do or think of it all. Like I said if I wasn't at least thinking about giving us another chance none of this would really matter. But if she is saying these things to try and manipulate me it would be a whole other level of sickness that I can't even comprehend. What do you think?

starman - I don't know that I can offer any really good advice, but what I do want to say is that I know what you are dealing with. My H had an A with my sister (for several months), and after she and I got into a fight, she came out and told my family that he raped her... over and over and over... for all those months... (grrr) It's really hard, because you don't want to think that a woman could lie about such a terrible thing... but unfortunatly, some do lie. and it really makes me mad that a woman would take away from the pain a REAL rape victim has to deal with just because she is not woman enough to admit to her mistakes. I don't want to sound like I'm saying your wife is lying, I have NO idea. (Obviously I don't know her.) If she really was raped, then you have done a good thing getting her into therapy.

Unfortunatly, you are in a tough spot (as my entire family was put in)... who wants to be the one to tell someone that they don't believe them. In my case, even my mother knows my sister lied about it, but as a mother, she HAS to support her.

One thing that has helped me heal over the last 17 months, is that my H wants me at all his therapy appointments, and has told his doctors that they can discuss anything he tells them with me. Maybe your W can ask her therapist to talk to you about whatever they discuss?

IF she is lying, it is hard to talk to people, because it gets really difficult to keep the story straight.

I'm really sorry for what you are going through. I'm also sorry if my post made no sense, this is a subject I tend to get a little worked up about. (But I do want to STRESS that I am NOT saying your wife is lying.)

-mac the wife

I try to teach my kids this:

If you lie to me .... you will lose your credibility .... and your "word" will have no value. If you want people to believe you, don't be dishonest.

My thoughts to you:

Comfort her as a STBXW. Something happened .... but unless she has an established track record for being truthful .... you don't really know what ..... so keep your emotional distance.

You know that old fable .... THE BOY WHO CRIED WOLF .... he lost his credibility from messing around with the truth .... and when there actually was a wolf, no one listened.

You can be sympathetic ... and still NOT let her back into your life .... other than as a woman who needs a friend right now.

Keep your distance. She is dangerous. This does not smell right.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

My first thought would also be that she's altering the truth a bit to play on your sympathys. I think that maybe she really does want her life back with you, and maybe she's feeling shame from letting herself get in another situation she knows won't lead her on the path back. It's possible that in her mind she's altered the facts to justify her weakness and inability to say no, in to rape. I had a friend who did that. She had a one night stand and ended up pregnant. The story changed over time until she told me one time that he basically raped her. Well, I'm sure he pressured her...but I highly doubt she fought back and said no with any real determination. She was partying, and got a little drunk, and ended up pregnant.

But..there is also the possiblity that she's not lying. Still...it really does sound weak. She's got a LOT of proving herself worthy to do before she should be allowed back in to your life.

Take care Starman.

Many, many women do not press charges for rage. The feelings of guilt and shame -- and the subliminal feeling that somehow they brought the attack on themselves -- keep them from seeking any sort of justice.

Is she working with a rape counselor? Call a rape crisis hotline for some info.

If she's telling the truth -- and she very well may be -- this guy could do the same to someone else.

Rape is one of the cruelest of crimes committed against women.

If you want to know why its seldom reported simply look at this thread. How many here instantly doubted or questioned the timing or motive of the her story.

Would you have raised the same questions if she had been mugged and the assilant stole her purse?

Get it? After already suffering the crime does the victim then wanted to be put on trial as well.

She knew this her first reactions wasn't what can I do to make sure my assilant is caught instead it was "noboby will believe me because I am already in the middle of a divorce."

Societies failure to take rape charges at face value until all the evidence can be examined is one of the largest reasons the crime goes unreported.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by stunned-dad-fast recovering:

If you want to know why its seldom reported simply look at this thread. How many here instantly doubted or questioned the timing or motive of the her story.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you knew for a fact, that a man had made numerous false injury worker's comp claims ..... but THIS time, he claims to be "really hurt" .... and you knew he had numerous debts he needed to pay back ..... what would you do? Would you doubt his story?

"Instantly doubted" .... please <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .... it's not "instantly" without cause ..... we realize her story may be real .... just as the worker's comp injury may be real .... but, that's the consequences of being a known liar .... you are going to be doubted.

If she was raped, she should press charges.

Pep

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Okay Pepperband I don't know her background why do you say she is a known liar?

I can tell you that I have told my story to three therapists. Two believed I was raped and one didn't - she thought I was 'asking' for it.

The person who took advantage of me would never admit that anything inappropriate happened. But for all these years, something about that day haunts me. I can never tell him about the hurt and betrayal he caused. I can never tell my mother or my sister. There are, including these 3 counselors, only 3 or 4 people who know.

As for pressing charges, do you know how hard it would be if it came to court. What is her track record? What is his track record? Is there any evidence? How long has it been since the evening in question? They had been drinking so the memories may not be clear.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stunned-dad-fast recovering:
<strong>Okay Pepperband I don't know her background why do you say she is a known liar?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I bumped up Starman's previous recent thread .... make your own conclusions.

The rape may have happened .... what I am saying is .... Starman still needs to protect himself and his kids from her .... Starman knows her the best .... and in his post he said , "To be honest I did not believe her at first." ....

Whether or not she was raped is not the question ..... we do not have any facts, and we are not the jury considering facts. Starman has been through the ringer with this woman ... she is a habitual cheater .... that does not mean she was not raped .... but it might mean she is using a very sick method to try and get Starman involved back in her life ... in a rescue the damsel in distress role. She is an habitual manipulator and cannot be trusted to tell the truth .... that is the consequence of living as a liar and a cheat .... there will be doubts.

The rape very well may have happened .... and it will be very difficult to determin exactly what happened. But that's not Starman's job. he needs to protect himself and his kids.

Is it smart to accept a $100.00 bill from a known counterfeiter?

This is not a discussion about believing rape victims per se .... but believing THIS particular woman with everything Starman knows about her.

Pep

Okay fair enough but let me present this....

Why is believing she was or wasn't raped relative to starman?

What happened or happens to her doesn't not intstantly compell him to take care of her or reconcile with her.

starman may chose to accept that she was assaulted. Provide her comfort and support....then follow thru divorcing her for the original reasons you stated that she is a serial cheater.

I don't see where the two are linked...one only has something to do with the other if starman allows it to.

Still concerned about the judgemental thing. Sort of reminds me of the Jody Foster movie where her character is a known slut so nobody cared when she was ganged raped at the local bar/pool hall.

If starmans soon to be X-W is a serial cheater do we have to automatically assume she is a liar in every aspect of life? Geesh then I must assume my wife is a "known" liar since she had an extended affair.

<small>[ October 05, 2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: stunned-dad-fast recovering ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>

Comfort her as a STBXW. Something happened .... but unless she has an established track record for being truthful .... you don't really know what ..... so keep your emotional distance.

You can be sympathetic ... and still NOT let her back into your life .... other than as a woman who needs a friend right now.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you .... SDFR

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stunned-dad-fast recovering:

<strong>Sort of reminds me of the Jody Foster movie where her character is a known slut so nobody cared when she was ganged raped at the local bar/pool hall.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I remember that movie .... there were witnesses to the facts of the crime .... and they conspired to hide the truth .... until one young man's conscience got to him and he testified the truth.

I realize rape is a sensitive subject for you ... and a reality for 1 out of 4 women. I was nearly date raped ... but I managed to escape. This is not about your wife. This is about Starman's wife.

Pep

Pep
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

SD,

You ask a good question about starman. If he does or does not believe here it sort of irrelavant, particularly since she won't file charges and continues to lives in the same 4plex with him. The fact of the matter is he is struggling with giving her another chance.

I made my opinions clear on the other thread, and frankly I don't think her rape is relavant. Yet, I suspect since he is even considering taking her back, that he has feelings for her and does not want to see her hurt.

The sad thing is that she went out drinking with a stranger, brought him home, and remained alone with him. It is clear whether something happened or not Starman has more concern for her safety than she does, which does not make her a particularly good risk given all else that has occured.

Whether she was or was not, the fact remains that she lives next door to him and apparently has done little to protect herself.

I still think Starman should make his decision based on data, and the fact that she has done little to change herself or her lifestyle. If nothing is changed then little changes, and he can probably expect more of her A's.

That would be my take until further information shows up.

I sorry to hear of this Starman. You have a hard decision, I have a strong feeling you know which way to decide. I may have told you this before, but I have found in my life when really hard decisions had to be made, they often made themselves. All I had to do was stand back and look at the data. I could choose to go the other way, but the data made it evident that it wasn't a very smart decision.

Look at the data, step back and let it talk to you. I think you will find your decision will be easy to make at that point, even if you regret that you had to make it.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ October 06, 2003, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Hi Starman,
I read your other thread about a second chance but didn't comment , and now came to this one.

I think that this is very true, as said by JL: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The sad thing is that she went out drinking with a stranger, brought him home, and remained alone with him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, on second thought, I wouldn't have even asked him in when he wanted a bandaid. I wouldn't want to hang around with anyone who got in fist fights with a roommate and ended up w/ a bloody hand. This wouldn't be the sort to go out drinking with on a weekend night, if one likes to go out and drink for sport.

I agree 100% w/JL's statement. I want nothing more than a chance with my exH. The last thing I'd do is go out drinking with strangers, and then sit in my home with one. On the other hand, not to be harsh, but I wouldn't do this even if I weren't wanting my exH back. It shows no judgment, to me.

If she truly wants another chance, she needs to show you that she's changed. Going out drinking w/ men--and added to that men of this caliber-- isn't a sign of change for the better.

If she was raped, why doesn't she report it? It makes no sense to me. She most likely wants your sympathy . Perhaps she's letting you know how much she needs you, for protection.

I wouldn't let any of this stuff regarding a rape influence my decision either way. It would show me though--the drinking, etc-- that she's still not changing her lifestyle for the better.

Take care,
HP

I think hopeful person and Just Learning hit it on the head for me. I came here this morning to reply and say basically what they did. It was bothering me that I was having doubts about her story because I know, like stunned dad was saying, that rape victims aren't taken as seriously as they should be and a lot of times people don't believe them.

I don't care if she was literally asking for it all night with this guy, invited him to her bedroom as soon as her friends left and then at the last minute decided she didn't want to go through with it. When she said stop, the guy should have stopped, plain and simple. If I am with a woman and even sense that she is uncomfortable in some way, I would stop and talk with her about it, not push the issue.

The real problem I'm having is her behavior leading up to what happened and how or even if I should deal with it. The fact that the guy had already been drinking when he got to her house and then the four of them go out to a bar later is very troubling to me. She told me that he had been telling her that he wanted her since the day she moved in over there, and had made some comments about seeing her in certain outfits she'd worn and how good she looked in them. Was he coming on to her early in the evening this way and she still went out drinking with him or did he start talking to her this way after they were alone later in the evening?

Her behavior in the past would tell me that she had some sort of mutual attraction for this guy and decided to let him hang around for the evening because of this. On the other hand I have been out with friends several times over the last few months where it ended up being me, another woman and another couple in our group. Just the four of us but totally innocent on my part and the woman who was with us. We just hung out publicly but I never ended up alone with another woman and wasn't interested in that sort of thing.

What I'm wondering is if I should ask her about the evening, her behavior, and what she was thinking in this context. I have these questions but have been afraid to bring them up because I don't want her to misinterpret what I'm saying as me thinking she was just asking to get raped. I think I can separate the two issues well enough to get my point across but don't know if I should even bother.

starman

I think its very important that you keep your marital issues seperate from this other issue.

From what I have read by you and others she has hurt in ways that make reconciling impossible. And you have given her chance after chance.

DO NOT link the two.

Think of it this way...you would have compassion for if she found out she had cancer, was in a terrible car wreck and so on. But you wouldn't think any of the above was reason to take her back would you?

Then have compassion or support for her claim of rape. But leave it at that.

I do strongly object to those that think unwillingness to file charges is proof that the incidenct didn't happen.

Lots of "good girls" are raped and do not file charges either.

So please lets not try to be judgemental based solely on what we think we know about this person.

Starman I agree with stunned_dad that you do not link the two issues for you might end up harming her IF she was truly raped.

Do not let the rape affect your decision for or against the divorce. The divorce should stand on its own merits independent of other issues irrelevant to it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by starman:

The real problem I'm having is her behavior leading up to what happened and how or even if I should deal with it.

What I'm wondering is if I should ask her about the evening, her behavior, and what she was thinking in this context.

I think I can separate the two issues well enough to get my point across but don't know if I should even bother.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why don't you see what happends .... see what she does. See if she follows through and how she chooses to deal with this herself.

Try not to put yourself into a rescuer-role .... or a Mr-fixit role .... see what she does on her own agenda. I'm sure, if she needs support, she has other people she can lean on. Friends and family.

You are divorcing her ..... you can care .... from a distance.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Beleive me when I tell you that even if you do decide to finalize the divorce, she will still be a part of your life because of the children. I still have to communicate with my ex-WW (who ALSO had multiple affairs) with regards to our two daughters. So whether you like it or not, you WILL have a relationship with her.