Dear WS,

If you are here, posting or lurking, do you ever wonder where your BS is, mentally and emotionally?

Well, you know what? I believe, I know, I speak for many of us. We are moving on. We are moving on without you. Those of use in Plan B are building independent lives...full of GOOD things, healthy things...things like exercise, weight management, spiritual growth, increased focus on our children, culture, careers, volunteering and building new friendships. We are developing into complete, independent people.

Yes, many of us are still hopeful for our marriages, but just as many of us are tired of feeling like doormats, allowing you, the WS, to be out there, enjoying the playground you have created. We are rising up...we have strength, we have focus.

If, in even the back of your mind, you have concerns about where your WS is, then this message is for you. Listen, and listen good:

Your BS is not going to wait for you forever.

It is time for you to stop straddling that fence and decide: Is your marriage worth saving? I belive 90% or better will say YES. Move on it now, before you lose what you will soon come to realize is the most precious thing you can ever have - your marriage, your children, your family.

*S*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"You're so vain...you probably think this song is about you."

<small>[ October 08, 2003, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: *Sparkle* ]</small>

Methinks ye know not of what ye speak.

Look around, Sparky, some of these BS's have been here for a DECADE or more! In my lurking I have gotten the definite impression that there is a certain percentage of marriages that will never recover. It's almost like this board keeps some people from seeing that, though. How could anyone, BS or WS, stay in a relationship for YEARS without feeling love or acceptance or even friendship? I don't understand why the impression is given here that it is better to stay in a horrible marriage, in some cases for many years, instead of realizing what the truth is and accepting it. That is not to say that you should chuck it all at the first sign of trouble. But some here have been to Hell and back so often they get frequent flyer miles, and yet, they COME BACK FOR MORE AND MORE AND MORE! It reminds me sometimes of the old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice...shame on me."

LD

<small>[ October 08, 2003, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Luckiest Duck ]</small>

Well, that was productive, eh Ducky?

I think Sparkle was venting about his/her own situation. I too think that some BS DON'T move on...and SHOULD. Moving on, or the appearance of it, is often what wakes the WS up to reality.

Those who hang on for decades...as you put it...in a bad relationship, just to have a relationship, often have issues of their own they just refuse to face. I don't see that as being the norm, however.

Lucky,

Not sure that BS's hang on for that long. We either get a better M and move off MB (graduate) or get a better D and move to the other board (D/D). Those of us still here are in various stages. Some in recovery, but new to it, some in the mire, and some just finding out.

Don't think there's too many decades long folks that haven't just found MB. Most of us have been here under 2 years.

But if you think I'm wrong, why not post a poll?

Sparkle--
I don't know if you expect replies or if this was just a vent of frustration, but if I were to have received some version of this from my BS all I would have had to say was GOOD!

* * * * *

Here would be my response:

There is nothing attractive about someone who is weepy, needy, and a doormat. The best thing you can do is develop into a "complete and independent individual", cuz frankly I was sick of being the strong one all the time.

Those changes are long overdue, and I don't want them done for me. Do them for yourself.

Families come in all shapes and sizes. I am not losing my children or my family. The marriage stopped being precious a long time ago -- apparently to you also since you never nurtured it.

So to answer your question BS, no I don't wonder where you're at mentally or emotionally -- other than to hope that you're strong and capable and you will stop depending on me for all your happiness.

* * * * * *

So I guess Sparkle, that I am in the 10% that feel its NOT worth saving. I wanted to post to give you that point of view.

hhhmmm luckiest duck..

It's almost like this board keeps some people from seeing that, though.

WOW!! I didn't know this board was that powerful..
amazing...

truth is it is probably only a small percentage of BS that are even "here" in the world of adultery....trying to work on a marriage...most hit the pavement...

People that are here working on THEIR marriages..choose to come here...
and they alone choose what they can and can not tolerate in their worlds...no one here controls them...

How could anyone, BS or WS, stay in a relationship for YEARS without feeling love or acceptance or even friendship?

How could anyone in a relationship with feeling love or acceptance or even friendship cheat on their wife?

Care to talk about that?, rather than dirty limericks...and making blanket statements about certain things...

me knows ye know not of what ye speaketh..

ARK

Lexxxy,

BRAVO!

Someone around here with some balls! And it's a woman....go figure.

More people need to take control of their lives, and quit giving up that control to someone who doesn't give a sh*t about them.

INSANITY: performing the same action, over and over, while expecting different results.

LD

<small>[ October 08, 2003, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Luckiest Duck ]</small>

ARK, (Nice androgenous name)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOW!! I didn't know this board was that powerful..
amazing... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really, and you've been here THAT long? Why is it, if this board has no power, that people try to leave and can't? It becomes a support system for many here; in some cases, the only support they know in their lives. That can be a good thing, but it can also be a bad thing. People can become as addicted to this board as they are/were to a WS or OP. With all you "Know" about other things, I would think this would be pretty basic.

As for limericks, all I did was ask a question. Many of the replies from your "board-mates" are vulgar, but show me any of mine that even hint at being inappropriate.

Please enlighten me, oh omnipotent ARK!

Sparkle-

As XWH who has torn his playground down and created a meadow of peace and relaxation, it is refreshing and promising to know that my x is doing just those things you list for her to recreate and re-discover herself. if nothing else comes from our dv, I have prayed and hoped for her happiness, her playground, which I desroyed.

I commend you for your pursuit of happiness, independence and freedom that so many arund you will benefit from!

Thank you for sharing what I hope to be the pursuit of ALL BSs' one day!

God BLess YOU!
<><

Ummm....excuse me? Am I understanding that you think that because people stick around here that they are all seeking help?? Our marriage is going on 2 years recovered...it's rare that I ask for help. I come here to help others! It's not some inability to leave. I choose to be here. I choose to spend my time looking for outstretched hands and open ears.

What productive things do you do with your time?

LD:

Well, now. As one of those that posted "inappropriate" and "vulgar" limericks 2 your thread last night (for which I will again apologize 2 this forum), I note that my impression that your post was initially intended 2 be "for fun" might have been mistaken.

I had read your other threads before that, such as they are, and found that you are the WS trying 2 decide whether 2 end your EA or your M. Now, there's nothing wrong with that. Many people come here for help 2 make that decision. Recognize, of course, that the "help" is for them 2 make healthy choices, not 2 tell them what 2 do. I sense more than a little misguided sarcasm from you. I hope I'm wrong and that you're really just trying 2 figure things out.

But as one of those MBers that has been here for "years" (less than 2, in fact), I will only point out 2 you that recovery, should you decide 2 accept it, will likely take you 2-5 years. That's the average. Do you think you might need help with that?

...are you related in any way 2 a newbie by the name of "Atacus", by any chance?

Best,
-2long

First of all, I, like 2long, was a participant in the Limericks thread. I too considered it honest fun and do apologize if I offended anyone by my participation and writings. I also wish I had known the status of the thread starter.

Now Luckiest Duck (have you named yourself that because you are a cake-eater - best of both worlds?)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Methinks ye know not of what ye speak. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Methinks ye know not of Marriage Builders. There are many here who are not addicted as you say, but are here to help others...to add their support, friendship and experience...their success stories.

And who, of all people, are YOU to judge how often a person chooses to rebuild their marriage? Why is that any of your concern?

This board is about saving marriages, something you don't seem to have any interest in doing. Why post this garbage and put-downs to those who are making honest efforts?

Why are you even LOOKING at Marriage Builders?

I for one, would respectfully invite you to absent yourself until the time comes that you really, sincerely are seeking the help that so many here can give you.

And ya know what? I know for a FACT that my WS DOES care about where I am emotionally. My WS still loves me, but is currently incapable of ending the A.

*S*

<small>[ October 09, 2003, 04:48 AM: Message edited by: *Sparkle* ]</small>

U GO U GO *SPARKLE*

MINE STILL FEELS FOR ME, NOW JUST GET THE HEAD OUT OF THE A$$ AND TAKE A DEEP BREATH OF FRESH AIR AND I FEEL THEIR A WILL END. THAT IS MY TAKE ON FOG!! YOU HERE JUST PUT IT IN A NICE WAY.

ARE U ALL SAYING WE HAVE MB ADDICTIONS HERE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I THINK NOT THERE ARE THOSE HERE THAT HAVE HELPED MANY AND HELPED WITH GETTING SOME THEIR FEET BACK TO THE GROUND WHEN THEIR LIVES ARE SPINNING OUT OF CONTROL.

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK MY MB FRIENDS FOR EVERYTHING! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ October 09, 2003, 06:15 AM: Message edited by: Uncondital Love ]</small>

I am a former BS! I do feel as though I've moved on and have rebuilt my life... I am peaceful and happy with where my life has taken me since my dv. I no longer stress about my marriage or WS and I'm relaxed.

However, the affair experience itself will always haunt me in little ways. I date and I find myself "joking" (to mask the seriousness) about his fidelity and he reminds me he's not my xws. I am also overly vigilant at times.

For the most part I'm very peaceful and relaxed with this new man, but the past looms in the dark and waits for those vulnerable times to strike.

Do you have those moments, sparkle (or any other BS)?

I am a FWS who had an EA. On D-Day, I was honestly blown away that my H wanted me to stay with him and recover our marriage. I honestly thought I would be out on my butt when he found out the truth.

His reaction shattered a lot of preconceived ideas I had about the possibility of infidelity in our relationship. I had always said that if he ever strayed, I would be GONE. No second chances. Especially if he fell in love (or thought he fell in love) with someone else. My gut reaction is that I would say, "You know what? Fine. GO BE WITH HER. I'm out of here."

Which is what I thought his reaction would be to the news that I thought I was in love with another man, and had planned on divorcing my H and marrying this other man.

But no. First of all, on D-Day, I realized immediately that I could not and would not have a life and a future with this other man. For one thing, his wife wasted no time in letting me know that she would NOT be letting her H go...and I acquiesced immediately. Then, my H made it clear that he loved me and wanted me.

Understand, he subsequently made it clear as well that if there was ever contact with the OM, or a repeat performance of what I had put him through, that WOULD be it...he would end the marriage. And I believe him. He considers the discovery of the EA, and the dark months following it, as the worst thing he's ever been through, and he says he will not endure that again.

So, what if my H was the offending spouse? What if it happens in the future? I don't honestly know. I do know this: if my H truly believed he loved someone else and wanted to be with them, I have a hard time believing I would even want him to stay. I honestly believe I would wish him Godspeed and move on with my life...but who knows?

Geez, S1, you never cease to amaze me!

I think my wife is your H in drag. EEEEWWWWWW!!!!!!

But I know exactly what you mean.

Oscar

Sincere1:

I felt the same way about my W after D-day. She didn't end her A like you did though. It was 4 more months until Mrs Meat found out about the A. Even RM didn't know before then that I had found out.

But our sitch is somewhat different in that my W believed she ended her A 2 months before I found out, the last time she saw RM. 2 me, though, it was clear that the EA continued until a few months ago, though my W is one of those who believed it was just a "friendship."

I've often thought about what I'd do if contact resumed. And the fact is that I don't really know for sure that it ever stopped, though I do believe that their convos over the past 4 months or so (via email, phone, and one in-person visit for work) were not very happy ones. The A is truly over now. I would LIKE an NC agreement, but I don't know if I'll get one. So, I do have thoughts about what I'd do if contact were 2 resume at some point, "innocent" or otherwise. And I think that I do need 2 be careful when I have thoughts like "if this happens again, I'm going 2 quit" because they affect my behavior 2ward my W in subtle, insidious ways. Things have been so good between us lately that it would be s2pid for me 2 dwell on such thoughts. I choose 2 live in the now, and do as little 2 adversely affect our M as possible. Rather, I choose 2 focus on what I love about my W, and show her that I do so that she might have more oppor2nities 2 think about what she loves about me.

"The future lies ahead. As for the past? Lies, lies, lies" -Patrick Layton Paulsen.

-2long <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ October 10, 2003, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by OtG:
<strong>Geez, S1, you never cease to amaze me!

I think my wife is your H in drag. EEEEWWWWWW!!!!!!

But I know exactly what you mean.

Oscar</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You mean, our situations are interchangeable, except for the genders? Like, I'm Oscarina? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You mean, our situations are interchangeable, except for the genders? Like, I'm Oscarina? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I'd never insult a lady like yourself by calling you such a name, but yeah, the gender thing is what I meant. That and the fact that we listen to much of the same music. I've been meaning to ask; you know so much Contemporary Christian, do you listen to K-Love?

Oscar

Oscar...no, I don't listen to K-Love. We have a couple of excellent Christian radio stations where I live. Locally-owned, operated and staffed. I'm a music freak. Can't live a day without music...and I've found, especially since the catastrophic train wreck that was the EA, that Christian music is best for my mind and soul.

That's not to say I don't listen to a lot of other stuff, too. And a lot of CCM bugs me with its shallowness and lack of originality...but there's some really great stuff out there. Steven Curtis Chapman and Michael W. Smith are the real deal, both spiritually and musically. Also, bands like Caedmon's Call, the Newsboys, Jars of Clay, Switchfoot, Down Here, Delirious...I could go on and on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />