Hope4future I am in the middle of a Marriage failure, My wife had an A. now she wants a D. Someone told me on my thread to come talk to you and ask you what you were thinking at the time that you decided to D. and then Reconcile.. I do not know your thread and couldn't find it so if you could respond that would be great... L&C

Let me see if I can drum up my old posts to JR. I explained it all pretty thoroughly in there. Be right back...

Ok, I bumped the thread "an observation about age". The third page has a lot of dialogue between JR and I...and I delve in to my mindset around the time of the DV.

If you have any more questions let me know!

Thank you for bumping it - I read it today. It's been a long weekend. I did get some insight from reading your post .. I'm not sure if that is what my wife is going thru or not. She says she just wants out of our marriage and that it has nothing to do with OM..

Do I believe her? No -

She just turned 33 on the 5th of Sept. and all of this seemed to happen right afterwards. Sooo the looking at life thing is probably a good assumtion.
Did your H. try and work it out with you after the A?
I quess I would fit into the needy / whiny catagory.. Not intentionally.. just I'm so depressed and Love her so much and she never knew it.. my own fault. She will not let me do anything to show her she says she hates me and that it is over. She just wants out.

My wife just came in and asked me to fix the vacume
I did and she had a look of what else can go wrong on her face.. I told her I felt the same way she did. She said that what we did we did to ourselves and that we are just not good being married together.

I disagree and I told her so .. I told her we just need to work on it and not give up .. Any advice you might have from what you were thinking at the time or now would be great.. L&C

bump 4 hope

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure if that is what my wife is going thru or not. She says she just wants out of our marriage and that it has nothing to do with OM.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course she says that. She's in typical WS mindset. The problem is the marriage IS the issue that leads to the unmet needs that leads to those needs being met by someone else (often by accident)...but it doesn't get any attention until the A brings the issues to light. So now te A is an issue...but not a visable one to the WS..because they're trying to sort out the marriage...while their in love with someone else and someone else is meeting their needs.

What a mess, huh?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I believe her? No - </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GOOD! You know better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did your H. try and work it out with you after the A? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H never took the reigns at any point, really. It was a whole lot of me flopping from one thought to another. But yes, he did go to a couple of counselors with me, did individual, read books... He really did try but I blasted him every time. In the end, though, he gave me yet one more chance, and since I was truly out of the fog we had a successfull recovery. My story was on here yesterday...under 'an attempt at my story'.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I quess I would fit into the needy / whiny catagory.. Not intentionally.. just I'm so depressed and Love her so much and she never knew it.. my own fault. She will not let me do anything to show her she says she hates me and that it is over. She just wants out.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to STOP the whiny/needy thing right now. It's SO unattractive...and it will not win you any brownie points. The needier you are, the more she'll want to run. I needed my H to be strong, and every time he would show his hurt I wanted to run as fast as I could the other way...and I tended to be cruel in those situations. Because the guilt at seeing him hurt was enourmous...so I'd lash out with anger.

What she's telling you is right out of the WS script book...so work on not taking any of it personally. Yes, I said it...DO NOT take it personally. We all seem to say the same thing, and we're not all married to the same person....so it's WS mentality...not personal. Got it??!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife just came in and asked me to fix the vacume
I did and she had a look of what else can go wrong on her face.. I told her I felt the same way she did. She said that what we did we did to ourselves and that we are just not good being married together.

I disagree and I told her so .. I told her we just need to work on it and not give up. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, you need to quit educating her, and arguing with her about how she feels or should feel...is useless. Have you read SAA (surviving an affair)?? She doesn't want you to fight for her or argue with her right now...she just wants to run. The best thing you could have done in that situation would have been to fix the vacuume and had a cheery attitude doing it. "there ya go, is there anything else I can help you with right now?" And if she blasted back with unappreciation...you just put on a smile and walk away.

I think you need to work out some strategies in dealing with your WS. What do you think???

Your right on all of it .. I really have done a poor job at the plan A. She is and was my best friend so I always feel the need to tell her everything.. at this moment she is trying to work out a way to get me out of the house with her lawyer.. If she does then there is nothing stopping her from having the A with OM. Not that she isn't carring it on. It just isn't physical at the moment.. She has no way to make it physical latley.

Did you move out or did your H? We are both still living in the same house at the moment ... if you don't mind go look at my thread on just found out .. maybe you can give me some insight.. I REALLY REALLY do appreciate all your help.. I love my wife very much and really want us to work this out...

Ok...whew...got the whole 5 or 6 page post read on JFO.

First of all....you aren't being exceptionally proactive in this situation. I know it STINKS and it's HARD and it SUCKS...but right now this whole thing is tetering on a pretty small thread. The way you are reacting and reacting and REACTING to your wifes bullying and BS is going to push your marriage right over the edge.

You need to work on understanding several things:

#1 Whatever comes out of your wifes mouth translates to Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Ok? That's your new translation guide. When she starts in about "I hate you, I don't love you, we can't fix us, you did this or that, my parents don't like you", you just think of blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....if you start laughing your tush off, well, that'll get her to wondering what the #$@!!!

#2 Nothing she says or does is about you. Period. I said it isn't personal...and it isn't. She's confused and lost right now...she's in there somewhere, but she's got to fight her way back. She needs to fight HERSELF in order to do that...so you need to quit fighting with her. You are a distraction....leave her alone so she can get to work.

#3 NO PURSUING AND NO EDUCATING!! Reguardless of your thoughts on reconcilliation, and reguardless of how we think things can work out, and reguardless of HOW YOU FEEL...you will no longer inform her of healthy ways and paths to choose, healthy ways to feel etc....and quit telling her you love her and want to reconcile.

WHAT!!! Did I really say that??? YES. Because, quite frankly, your situation is escalating very quickly. I didn't have the guts to file for over a year and a half! But my H didn't fight me...he was tolerable to live with...the pressure wasn't on to move.

I was the one who moved out. About a year after the whole mess started. We had another false recovery after that and I finally filed 6 months after we'd seperated. I drug my feet another few months...until I finally gave in. H never pushed me, although he did ask me where we were with the DV a couple of times.

Frankly, L&C, you've gotten a TON of good advice and from what I read you've ignored a lot of it. Don't waste any time beating yourself up for that...it's NOT ATTRACTIVE...just DO IT RIGHT from now on. Right now, this minute, today. Get tough, get strong, grow a protective layer around you, and get to work. Make a plan. How are you going to make this situation start working FOR you instead of just following the current down the toilet??

What's your plan?

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>

Hey...Hope4Future...do me a favor and email me. I wanted to ask you a few questions on this subject, but not in the open.

Mortar29@yahoo.com

Thanks!!

sent!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> hope4future said:
Frankly, L&C, you've gotten a TON of good advice and from what I read you've ignored a lot of it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">L&C - please listen to her. Re-read your thread on JFO, make an action list, put your plan together and get to work.

Your W is moving too fast for you to be 'reacting' as hope4future said.

God's speed L&C.

Gib

LOL and L AND L <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I like the blah blah blah part of your conversation. I finally got the book survivng an affair today from the library ( took long enough to get here ) .. I'll start reading it right away. I have gotten some good advice.. and no I didn't follow it .. but I am now.

As far as a plan goes well .. It's a work in progress. Any sugestions? My first #1 priority is too find a job (it seems to be the most important need to my wife at the moment.)
#2. Well .. stop arguing with her .. we actually didn't fight tonight. I fixed the vacume .. again and then vacumed the floor ( took a little extra time doing it ) I saw her walk by out of the corner of my eye and look at me with a " hmmmm .. nice job type of look "
I did a bunch of things that I never used to do .. domestic seems to be right up there along with financial... soooo I'm doing what I can. When I can. After that I'm not sure where or what to do .. but I am working on it ... I have backed off about everything else. ( ok , ok - I've tried too .. I did tell her she looked pretty tonight.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Well I'd say you're on the right track already. Your post said (in reguards to advice taking) that I AM NOW...not I'm going to try. I'd say that's a pretty strong and healthy statement. I WILL DO THIS! I CAN DO THIS! YOU GO GIRL....oops...not that one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LOL - (you go girl?)Uhhh no!

I posted this on JFO wanted to get your Opinion on it. Thank you again for all your help.

OK new and strange evolution of this ... My WS came home yesterday from picking our daughter up from school. We talked small talk .. she had asked me what my mother thought about all of this ( the A.) I told her that she knew about the D. but not the other thing ( A.) She looked at me and started crying.. really crying. She told me how sorry she was and I walked over and comforted her.. told her it was ok. she said the way she figured it we had four months to figure all of this out .. that she has noticed all the changes I've made in myself and around the house. That she does love me. She then told me that our youngest daughter had clinged to her when she dropped her off at Preschool and that when she picked her up that she asked if daddy was at home .. my Wife said yes.. She asked why ? My daughter said because he'll just leave after you get there.. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> My daughter is only 4
So it was what my daughter said to her that made her realize what she has been doing.

Now - I'm glad that the conflict and fighting has seemed to stop .. but I'm not sure if she is being sneaky or really feels that way. She said that she isn't saying we can fix things and she didn't even really say we can try .. she just doesn't want to fight anymore. And I don't either.
She did say that contact with om has pretty much stopped. She said that they were passing notes back and forth and calling once and a while. (which I already knew.) She said she hasn't even done that latley. Honesty at last <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
She did say that if we were going to fix things we both needed to start being honest with eachother.. SOOO true!

So what do you guys think?

Ps: We watched a movie together and actually sat on the same couch in the same room ..
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I know a movie isn't quality time together .. but has to start somewhere.

Ok...my instinct says that you have a window of opportunity while her defenses are down. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. Buy her some flowers...or if that isn't what she likes...get her something that she wouldn't expect. And really lay on the domestic support and such.

I guess it's a fine line between going overboard and just laying it on thick. But you want her to start really feeling love for you again and gain appreciation for the marriage again. The fact that OM slinked off and has been such a coward is a big LB for him...the fact that you have not wavered from your fight for your marriage and your wife is a big plus for you.

BUT!!! And isn't there always a nice big BUT in the way... It's not going to work to just quit fighting. For now, yes. Lets get her crazy in love with you again. But what she really means is can we just sweep this under the rug so it will all go away? And the very simple answer to that is no. Because then it can happen again. She needs to read SAA and His needs her needs...and probly love busters too. Read them TOGETHER and then it isn't such a chore. You can share what you're learning, together.

One other BUT...DO NOT be accepting of her continued sneaky contact. You have a window...now would be the time to get a little stern and let her know that you love her and would indeed love to work on your marriage, but that it cannot happen correctly if she continues to talk with him. Explain to her that you want and expect a NC letter and what that entails. If she's not willing to do that, then she's not really quite out of the fog yet. Continued contact will undermine everything eventually.

And a side note...our 2-3 yr old, and his love for his father, was a big motivation for me to constantly question my actions as well. I honestly don't think, after all I put my H through, that he even would have considered reconciliation with me if it weren't for our son. We felt lucky to have him in our lives to begin with, and now we feel even luckier!!

More than ever you need to get a plan together...but this time she needs to be in on it. You need to make a plan together! But bring it up to her gently...don't drop everything on her in one big bunch. She might overload and freak out.

GOOD LUCK!!!

Hope4Future - can you bump your thread "an observation about age" to me? I get a sense that L&C and I have similar situations and I'd like to read your thread.

Thanks,
Hope

Done!

She still is in the frame of mind to get Divorced . she said so this afternoon .. she said " I'm glad we are getting along and not fighting, but we are still going to go thru with it." Sooo I just smiled at her and said I know ..

Hey L&C, can I butt in on your thread here...our situations are very similar in details and timing. My WW is also still planning for D. She has moved out and taken her name off all the bills. I told her that I was not making her car payment or auto insurance anymore, she said that was fine. She is looking for a place closer to out home so that she can be closer to the kids. There are times when she really looks like she is wavering, trying to decide what to do, but she seems to always go back to the M just be over.

I tried to do a really good plan A, it lasted 3 wks. until she moved out. Jenn advised me to go to plan B at that time. Since then, I've been trying to do a good plan B, but find it very difficult to sever all contact with her as we have 2 little boys. Help me out here. She is so headstrong and stubborn. I don't try to preach to her or educate her. I don't talk about the M unless she brings it up. She is having, at the least, an EA with the nieghbor two doors down. She was over there for about 5 hours last night, I know under plan B I'm not supposed to keep tabs on her but I couldn't help it. I didn't say anything to her and don't plan to, I just couldn't help myself from looking out the window about 100 times an hour....pretty pathetic. Anyway, nothing seems to be working. I knwo I need more patience, but this seems to be playing right into her hands. She seems to be getting exactly what she wants, us to be over.

Help me out here, what do you see as her mindset here, and what as her devoted husband can I do to bring her back? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Sorry, the questions regarding the mindset of my WW in the above post were directed to Hope4Future. I'm not sure if that was clear to anybody but myself. Sorry.